I'm hoping this also means you can't edit entities on that layer if they are locked!

If it's just to prevent purging the layer then I'm not bothered so much, there are bigger issues.

This whole forum is becoming a depressing read! It seems like every other thread is full of Trimble let me down posts. Looks like people's own expectations were set too high. SU is still a great tool and irrespective of the degree of disappointment it still works. You don't have to upgrade, you don't even have to use it, just stop with all the gripes. Some of us are very grateful that we have such a fun program to work with.

My top two:

SU - Real arcs/circles.

Layout - Entity creation tools that retain their layer setting.

I appreciate your confusion Matt. I've just found myself completely reviewing my workflow for the 2013 release. Without getting bogged down in detail I have now resolved my LO layers from bottom to top to include 1.Views, 2. fills and 3. linework for producing sections.

Import the full section view onto layer 1. In SU create group from slice, save as component and import onto layer 3. and align with layer 1. Turn off layer 1. Switch to layer 2 and trace areas that need filled including masking parts of layer 1. Turn on layer 1. Job done. If you update the slice it is a quick operation to save it and the changes will normally be immediately obvious unless you are using black fills.

Technically sharp but too much grey background for my old eyes.

Thanks Kris, that is the workaround I came up with after posting. I was hoping there was an add or subtract function I had missed. Looks like I need to add it to the wish list for SU 2013 pro M1 release

In LO is it possible to create a filled shape with a hole in it? I can't find any indicators that it can be done. I want to create a filled rectangle with a hole in it that will display the information through the hole. Think along the lines of a rectangular wall with a cut out to show a window.

The patterns are alpha PNG files. You can do the same thing in SU through materials application. The slight disappointment depending on what you want to do is the LO patterns aren't vector fills which could then be easily exported to DWG. As an addition to LO the patterns do help with different textures which you may want to vary from the SU model.

I used to use a big player architectural software package that was no where near as flexible as SU & LO, the upgrade cost per year was as much as new seat for SU and sometimes the upgrades didn't seem worth it with them either. Let's keep things in perspective on the cost of upgrade against improvements and be prepared to accept that SU is going to be adapted to fit Trimble's aspiration for a commercial user base.

and for a touch of irony your 3D educators are all 2D models

I use it commercially. The improvements in SU may not be immediately obvious but the cost of the upgrade for the improvements to LO make sense. A form of hatch has been desperately needed, now we have it, although the range of patterns needs expanding but you can do that with most graphics packages.

I reinstalled Twilight and it seems to be working as expected. Profile Builder's preview window is broken.

Same problem here. I've flagged it up on the official PB support page but not had a response yet.

I've played with it and I think it should save me a fortune in coloured ink and help me better differentiate areas. Upgrade cost covered.

Generally happy. Running dimensions would be a handy addition.

Hi Steve, like minded +1

You've sort of put your finger on the problem, although SU isn't the cure. Construction technology has been on a steep learning curve over the last decade, unfortunately the trades in the real world doing day-to-day construction e.g. extensions & alterations haven't come along for the ride; many still have the mind set that their method used to be okay why should they do it any different now which is also driven by recession and the need to keep costs down.

SU is great for detailing and I've been using it for years but until all operatives either learn to read the detail in the drawing or we develop good building practices that everyone readily appreciates there will continue to be problems on site.

Trevor

I'm not so sure that this is a "workaround" it seems more like a question of defining a common work flow that is generally accepted by the SU community.

One of the main reasons we end up with line work is because SU isn't a true solid modeller and the need to add or hide back faces whilst adding detail. TIG's "section cut face" plug is a solution to the hiding aspect but it is also something that should be automatic to the section tool rather than leaving us with the "create group from slice" which lacks faces and more stupidly is left hidden by the section cut!

The other aspect is vector hatching for faces for me it should be added to SU for others LO so maybe the SU Team should make it available in both.

Thanks for posting Edson, always happy to learn but I'm not sure some of the video #3 methods are that efficient. Surely creating a layer to hide lines is a bit unnecessary when you can hide and control their visibility without creating a layer.

One method I used to highlight areas of work is to create a "ghost" scene showing the whole model floor plan which can be set to a very fine pen in LO and then create scenes showing just the relevant features e.g. walls, doors etc which can then be overlaid on the first scene on a higher layer in LO and set to a heavier pen.

The watermark hatching made me curious but on balance I think it is less effective than just assigning a jpeg hatch and even less so if you have multiple materials to hatch. It is also always tied to exposed back faces and flat to screen e.g. it doesn't rotate with the model.

I get these issues as well but there is usually a work around as Dave has indicated. I do hope that some of these dimensioning problems will be addressed in the next release of LO, as there are occasions where it is possible to end up with 3D dimensions in an ortho view!

One option I haven't had to resort to yet is to create a lines only elevation scene, import it to LO, make it vector rendered, explode and group it, then overlay on the original coloured scene. You will loose automatic scaling in the process though and you will need to replace the line work if you update your model. Not ideal but a possible solution.

This is looking like a self help thread! I am no fan of DCs because of some of the limitations you have already highlighted.

Might I suggest an alternative approach... http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17948. I don't know what the implications are for the required cutting list quantities but the plug I believe would allow you to maintain component templates which you could then stretch without the distortion you get with DCs.

Just a thought.