Renderiza,

No code should be wasted, that's a plugin you should release anyway and probably, with the community feedback, there can be some functions to be added later. You respond very well to suggestions and your plugins gain a lot because of that, without ever loosing their core spirit.

I think there are many suggestions on split face that are very good (I specially like the one from pixero), and maybe this new "split donut" could be added to splitface as an option.

Best regards,

JQL

TIG,

Just to make a final try I changed every permission on plugin folder to none and then set them to full again and it now works. I don't know what might have been missing but something was not right on permissions after all, though I checked them all to full.

Now plugin store installed correctly both plugins.

Sorry for the trouble I gave you as it seemed to be definetely my problem.

Best regards,

JQL

TIG,

There is in fact a sectioncutface rbz in one of the temp folders. After I try to install layers panel plugin, it appears on the temp folder but doesn't install. I suppose the problem might occur after that point where Plugin Store saves the plugin in temp and then, probably tries to open it and copy the files to plugin folder.

Gábor,

I use avast but I can see no file being blocked when I use pluginstore. Avast should be allowing the files to pass, as they are being saved on temp folders.

Thanks for all your efforts guys. Don't forget this is not a real problem for me as I work with 2013 and everything is working fine there.

Best regards,

JQL

TIG,

I just tried installing the most recent plugin (Jiminy Layers Panel) and nothing happened again. What's strange is that it seems like everything is happening exactly like it's supposed to but somehow the file gets lost in the middle of the operation. I don't know if it fails downloading it or opening it or moving it somewhere.

Is there any temp folder where Plugin Store is saving downloaded files that I can check to see if it gets any file?

Best regards,

JQL

Box,

Thanks for sharing your opinion and though I don't fully agree with you, I definetely share many of your points of view.

@box said:

I think you are still missing the point regarding the purpose of Premium membership, and I feel what you are suggesting would only tear the community apart. People get jealous and annoyed and demanding when they feel it's Us and Them. Already people misconstrue what happens in the premium areas, as you see in the thread you linked to.

The problem with that misconstruction had to do exactly with the way Premium users are being adressed right now. They have access to exclusive parts of the forum - those premium areas - and that is what goes against the fundamental philosophy behind Sketchucation - Full and free access to knowledge and sharing (not only plugins).

What I proposed isn't a system where Premium users would get anything exclusive, but something better, or faster, or free, or just in beta stages, while other users would have to just wait until they could have that access. It's what happened to Plugin Store beta testing stage, so it's happening already. It's like I'm just asking why not extend that to other plugins and make it clear that if you are a Premium User you are imediately elected as beta tester or have like a first user right to plugins.

A thing I consider right now is that there could be also an option for paying to have imediate access to one plugin alone, even if not being a Premium member... but that might be a new idea that I didn't discuss earlier.

@box said:

Sketchucation should and does make it possible to pay developers through the store, but it shouldn't be seen as the Massive corporate conglomerate selling only to those that are willing to pay. That's what Trimble is for. It is a community that thrives on openness, sharing and participation. It has evolved out of a common interest in development and a thirst for knowledge. It is not a business and the day it becomes one will be the day it starts to die. Premium membership is about helping support the forum so that it can continue to offer an open and honest place for all things sketchup.

I'm not saying that, by any means, the things that right now are free, should become payed, and I'm certainly not saying that everything should be payed or Premium. What I'm saying is that plugin developers should be allowed to choose if they would put their new plugins or enhanced versions as Premium users only content, commercial, or free for all. It's a decision that should be made only by them, but that Sketchucation should allow and should create a system more consitent and fair for developers, Premium users and that does not bother every other user.

What seems to me to be dividing the community right now is the exclusive access to Premium Forums. I'm not that interested in having access to those forums, but what the thread seemed to demonstrate (even if TIG rebated it plainly and clearly) is that people are getting the wrong idea from premium users, like it's a private club for hot shots.

Let me say this simply:

You can buy trees, models, textures, tutorials and other stuff at sketchucation. Or you can have a Premium account and have that stuff for free or with good discounts. Nobody is bothered by that and it's clear and simple - Why not extend that to plugins?

What I suggested is that, because plugins are one of the foundations that support this forum, why not go further on this: As plugins are not static stuff, and are evolving continually, why not have a system that makes certain enhancements of plugins, only available to Premium users, and after some time, availble to all... if the developer agrees?

That seems fair to me and not that corporative and capitalistic or over lucrative, though massive is a nice word for discribing what is and should continue to be Skethucation.

I hope I made it clearer now,

Thanks and best regards,

JQL

Hi again TIG and Box,

I am aware of the accents problem. It is a common issue with Kerkythea wich I use a lot.

That is why my username is "Joao" though I'm called "João". There are no accents or special characters in any folder in my PC that has to do with programs or even work directories.

The compatibilty folder exists but it's only filled with KT path text. Nothing else. I'm conviced that the permissions in SU8 folder are exactly the same as in SU2013 folder and I checked everyone's permissions in tutor classroom, though I might have made some mistake here. That compatibility files folder could be there for a previous installment of Sketchup... I couldn't tell.

@tig said:

It is strange that you get no errors as an incompatible version should do something...
Also the inability to download and/or install should throw some kind of error messages, whether it's by virtue of an incompatible earlier version of SketchUp that doesn't support RBZ installs, or folder permissions being limited, or connection issues.

I can almost guarantee you there are no connection issues I tried in two different contexts with my usual connection and both turned out the same error. I'm not so sure about folder permissions, because I understand what those are but I don't know why there is an CREATOR OWNER a SYSTEM and a TrustedInstaller. I just understand that I'm an admin and I have two other users without admin rights of the computer.

The incompatible version can't be the reason because that would make plugin store and JPP unable to install.

@tig said:

When you say SectionCutFace 'doesn't work'...
Does it install at all in v8 - i.e. is its file/subfolder in the Plugins folder
Does it appear in the Plugins Manager list at all ?
Does it appear in the right-click context-menu when you have just one section-plane selected ?
It does NOT appear in any other menus.
From your screen-shot it's not clear... is the section-pane the only thing that is selected?
Is the SectionCutFace .rb ever in Plugins at all, and listed in the Plugins Manager ?
Please remember that not all plugins will get entries in the Plugins menu - read their individual instructions - some are context-menu only, or are in menus like Tools or Draw...

SectionCutFace does not install.

There is no SectionCutFace plugin in the folder. It has no files on the folder and there are, of course, no files listed in Sketchucation plugin manager or extension manager.

If I install it mannually (put the plugin files directly on folder) it works correctly.

In the screenshot I have only the section plane selected and right click menu opened. As you know (it's your plugin ) section cut face only appears there on cotext menu.

@tig said:

Of course a plugin might occasionally fail to download properly before it is then installed, e.g. if there were a network or ISP connection glitch, but then you should get error messages ??

No error messages

@tig said:

Can its file/subfolder be 'manually' added to the Plugins folder successfully ?

Yes it can and the plugin works well when I do it.

@tig said:

You do have a 'Compatibility Files...' [but in Portuguese!] link/button in the upper-bars of the Windows Explorer window for the Plugins folder - this shows that permissions are [or have been] limited and not FULL, and thereby some errors might be occurring - but there should be error messages... There should never be any files in your VirtualStore, if the Plugins folder's permissions are set properly for every user/group listed =='FULL'...

Can you post lists of the contents of the SketchUcation subfolder and all of its nested subfolders...

This is weird

There you have an image with the list of contents on SketchUcation subfolder. There is a nested images subfolder called "~disabled" that has only two "U" icons that I didn't show. It's the icons you see in the folder shortcut image.

Hope this helps, if anything else is needed, just ask.

Thanks again,

JQL

@ashscott said:

So.....no one is willing to fork out for this plugin?

Well Ashcott, I forked this thread to another one and I would love to have your contribution:

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=54843

Thanks and best regards,

JQL

Renderiza,

Thanks for your contribution. You are clearly one of those developers that polishes their simple/complex ideas to any effort... then distribute your work for free! You are not alone here, of course, and that colective effort you guys are putting together is HUGE. Everyone contributes a bit to that, but there seems to be clearly more work from you than from me. That spirit is amazing and Sketchucation managed to create a sucessful environment for development, sharing and knowledge.

The big question for me is how to keep that "open" environment in this community, but also benefit from people that want to and can benefit from their plugin development knowledge. It wouldn't hurt you a bit if besides what you already learn and motivates you, you'd also earn a bit of what the community would manage to give you financially speaking.

Thanks again for your contribution and for your plugins.

JQL

Hi Rich and TIG,

Plugins were Sketchucation Plugin Store, Joint Push Pull (new version), Section Cut Face and a manual install of SU2Kerkythea. On my own computer (Windows) there is also an install of Thea plugin but not on other people's computers.

• Plugin Store was correctly installed (using window/preferences/extensions) and at first look seems to be working correctly;
• JPP was correctly installed from Plugin Store;
• Section cut face failed to install from Plugin Store. I didn't install it manually on purpose but I did it on other people's computers and it worked well.

Tried at my own office right now and it happens just the same thing as when I was in tutoring context.
My version of SU8 is latest as well as on other people computers.

Only Section Cut Face doesn't work. But I tried very few plugins (simply for example of regular sketchup workflow VS plugin accelerated workflow) so there could be other plugins that I would not be able to install. Restarted Sketchup and SectionCutFace still didn't work (cilinder image).

Nothing strange happens on ruby console when clcking autoinstall. Normal messages appear when auto installing. No error messages.
Archive installer also does not work or display any messages.

I have no problems on SU 2013, but some people were having them.

Checked for folder permissions and I believe everything is right. There is only one file on virtual store that is for KT, as you see on image.

If you want to make the process more direct we could arrange a time when I could be online so I could test imediately.

I hope this helps, and if you need anything more, feel free to ask.

Thanks and best regards,

JQL

Hi everyone,

There are two threads that I read recently that lead me to start this one:

One started by Ashcott, about a simple plugin and the fact that work should be paid:

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=54082&start=30#p494776

Other about Plugin Store, wich derived to Premium Sketchucation Membership and it's own purpose. It has some excellent contributions from some top SCF contributors:

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=54456&start=90#p497007

So let's start with Ashcott who has payed for the development of a plugin that he wasn't able to develop, and then shared it with the community. Since then he got the plugin further developed with some community ideas. What should he now do?

The answer is everywhere already but I think it's worth to be thinked over and here it goes:

The first option would be to charge a small fee for the plugin, with the upgraded functions. A crowd raise fund was also suggested, I would suggest that maybe a way to go is to have the free version and the paid one.

His problem seems to be that paid plugins that some how seem not to work in our community.

These fees should be really well balanced. The fact is that there are amazing plugins, both complex and simple, that really change what sketchup is capable of, and most of them are free/donation based.

I am not an usual donator myself, because I'm in a complete financial mess (like many architects I know). However Sketchup and Sketchucation are really helping me get out of my mess and I'm pushing more and more architects to this same "Sketchup" road. So I'll definetely thank with money when I'll have the chance and will be happy to do it. It's just that, right now, I'm doing what I can and that is not much.

There are a lot of examples of developers that only develop free plugins but accept donations, there are other people that don't ask for donations, others that develop a lot of free plugins but then, now and then, develop some that are paid because of some reason (usually because they're extraordinary, even for Sketchucation standards). There are, of course, commercial only plugins and developers... This is really a matter that must concern only to the developer, however money matters to everyone! If the plugin is worth it and the price is right what is the problem in charging?

Even if I am in a financial mess, I had to pay for Sketchup Pro and paid for a plugin that I felt an absolute need for: (Thea Render) wich has a very fair price considering its huge quality!

If some of the developers around would ask money for some of their plugins I'd really have to pay them, as their plugins are fundamental to my everyday life.

Fundamental and handy are very different things though! Just like having money or not is also very different. I need to have my fundamental tools for working, so I pay for them, if I don't have a fundamental need I can opt to have something or not. If I have more money I'll have more things even if I don't need them as much or I can live without them. However, what is different with Sketchup/Sketchucation is that I am allowed not to pay. I must say that I don't like the idea of using other people's work without paying them, however right now, if I am allowed to, I opt not to, as I have very little money. However I feel the need to do whatever I can and Sketchucation gives us some means for that. In the forum I am contributing little by little, everytime a bit more, helping the most I can. Outside, I'm advertising Sketchup to everyone and Sketchucation as the fundamental forum for any sketchuper... I don't feel it's enough though and I feel the absolute need to do more.

It's a natural feeling for most people around and that's maybe the reason why sketchucation is so successful. People talk of the community behind Sketchup as one of it's main assets. That community is Sketchucation!

This is very important! How to deal with the quality and quantity of content in this forum and Sketchucation Plugin Store and how to reward people that contribute the most for this community (developers and forum admins).

This is the question that is trying to be adressed by Sketchucation Premium Accounts. And I'd like to contribute to this idea by starting this thread.

My suggestion is that at the store, there could be free versions of plugins available to anyone and free "enhanced" versions of the same plugins available only for Premium Members.

With worthy enough enhancements that could just bring that small/big edge that makes the difference only needed for advanced users. It is those users who would easily become Premium members beacause they know the difference and feel the need.

If access to enhanced or most recent plugins would be held only by Premium Members, then maybe SCF would have more Premium members, more income and maybe that income could be applied to get some plugins further developed, wich in turn would create better advantages for Premium members. But what about free members?

This should in no way make Free members be out of the loop. The current base of free plugins is awesome already and this could be slowly upgraded too! After a period those plugins that were being used only by premium members would become available to everyone. Maybe it would happen only if a new version would be released. It would be just like what happened with SCF Plugin Store plugin wich, in it's Beta stage, was only available to Premiums. It makes perfect sense... Premiums know what they are doing and pay for the right to test new/advanced stuff, but they have also the responsability to do it. Just as TIG stated on the link above. It's a perfectly reasonable duty/advantage based process.

Imagine something that happened recently with Fredo and Joint Push Pull:

Joint push pull was perfect already. This week Fredo "Push Pulled" it further and made it interactive (among some other even more Bombastic features). However this new plugin is still completely free...!!! Why not have the old JPP still available (as it is...) and this one would only be available to Premium Members? (now it is impossible...) This makes perfect sense to me (Even if I'm no Premium Member).

In a year from now. Fredo would probably develop it even further. Then, if that would happen, why not make some/all of the interactive features free. Those features could be some/all of the ones that at the beggining were only available to premium members. The new features would then only be available for Premium members.

It seems like Fredo needs no motivation to create those amazing plugins, but wouldn't hurt him if he could have an income from premium members. And for guys like me the free versions around are already great! So I wouldn't feel pushed around if someone told me that I could only have an enhanced version of those plugins if I were a Premium member. And If I were a Premium member I would prefer to have access to every enhanced version of plugins, than to have discounts on resources I don't need.

If developers would feel bad about charging for their extra work (why would they?) then they could simply do what they do right now and release their plugins as free/donation based.

Would this professionalize SCF developers? Yes, more or less and why not?

With the tight relationship between SCF and developers that exists already, a payment/distribution method would certainly be easy to arrange, to create income to plugin developers and forum admins. This could all be based on Premium Members payments. Payed plugins and resources would behave as they do nowadays of course. But for redistributing money, SCF could use the statistics already present on Plugin Store, (Was JPP downloaded 5241 times this week only?). If this would be connected to the income Fredo would get as a percentage of the total income generated by SCF Premium Members I would be very happy... That would mean Fredo would probably dedicate himself even more to developing his old and new plugins.

This would certainly be fair to me: I have not much money but I would consider to be a Premium member for sure with this kind of benefit. But if I couldn't or wouldn't then I'd have to wait until I had the chance to get my hands on the features of those new plugins, but isn't it what I do already?

Well it's been a long post but I hope it was at least understandable, and I hope it helps a bit or contributes positively for a better future for us/you all or at least to a nice debate...

So thanks and best regards,

JQL

@tig said:

'Feedback' it could say 'Posts', 'Thread', 'Main-Thread' 'Forum-Page', 'SCF-Thread', 'SCF-Posts' etc - would anyone else like to chip in on this with comments ?

My suggestion:

"Get Sketchucated!"

Now, for more prosaic talk...

There are a lot of issues with Plugin Store not installing plugins on the computers of many of the people I tutor. It's mostly on Sketchup 8 but sometimes on Sketchup 2013 too.

I tried installing Sketchup 8 in my own computer, (where everything works on sketchup 2013), and some plugins didn't install while others were being correctly installed. I checked about permissions on folders and everything was right in some of the computers envolved.

What was happening was that Plugin Store was not downloading the plugin files or was not copying the files to the plugin folders on those computers.

The most important thing I also noticed was that in some of the computers, (probably all, I didn't test...) I couldn't install .rbz files from Window\Preferences.

When installing plugins the old fashioned way everything worked OK. So I installed the plugins manually, downloading them, and copying to folders.

I hope you can track something from this and if you need some more info or for me to try something either in my own computer or in those other computers (harder) I'll do it.

Thanks again for all your efforts on this excellent forum and plugin store.

Best regards,

JQL

Yes have a view at vue.

If you use Adaptive BSD, it is faster and you don't need to set passes. However there are many parameters you have to manipulate to get speedier or more accurate renders.

Is this true or what? This is an incredible extension to an already incredible plugin. I never thought it would get better than it was... and here it is!

Just when I was going to sleep you show up and make me awake just some more time...

PS: I think this deserves throwing a party. Just click around and cheers for Fredo!
http://www.audepicault.com/fanfare/fanfare.htm

Thanks and best regards,

JQL

Guys this does not show up at Sketchucation Plugin Store, though it's a great plugin!

Shouldn't it be there?

Best regards,

JQL

+1 to guides in LO
+1 to layer not print
+1 to offset fillet (and stretch besides of scale)

What about having Vector and Hybrid modes that would render correctly and differently hidden, and soften lines? One would be as dashed lines the other as dotted lines, and both would export to CAD with line styles?

Interesting, I always used to use 2d tools fillet...

I'll try TIG's Bezier too!

Thanks and best regards,

JQL

Do you really work there or are you just thinking what would be fun to do next?

Cheers

JQL

Renderiza,

That's not success, that's brilliance!

I'll start designing tiles right away...

Thanks!

JQL

Saurus I've tried NanoCad (for the simple stuff i described) and it seems good. However there isn't and offset through point or is there?

Best regards,

JQL