I will never buy a subscription of SU. I have been using SU since the Atlast days and while it was buggy, it was easy to use and cheap. I went with Pro when I wanted to start using Layout as it also was cheap (Sub £270 for a perpetual licence I think?) then another £150? for 3 years of upgrades which are somehow branded as maintenance!!!

I don't use SU much at all now. Maybe once a month if that. I used to use it daily a few years ago along with AutoCAD. I still use AutoCAD daily but again, I am sticking with my perpetual licence as I will not go subscription with them either.

SU in my eyes has failed to update the software to the next level (Don't get me started on LayOut) We were paying money for old rope, and you still are. If it wasn't for Ruby developers writing plugins (a lot of them FREE) SU would not be where it is now. SU doesn't even have a basic mirror function (I'm on 2018)

I believe all the income from our Pro licence fees has been used to fund all the other bloatware that Trimble now has on offer that no one uses which is now part of the "Package". I have no doubt they will make as much money as they ever did, but they will have fewer users, they are just charging them more money for the privilege.

I had my reseller contact me a few weeks back with an offer from Trimble to go to subscription for £228 for 2 years or £114 for 1 year. I just said no and asking him to send my strongly worded thoughts back to Trimble. He said mine and all the rest! as everyone else he contacted has been of the same opinion.

One other bummer I found out about was when you upgraded to the newer version, you lost your licence for the version before. The reason this has pi**ed me off is I though 2015 and 2016 were the best versions as they worked with all my purchased plugins and favourite free one. My 2018 works with none of them. I wish I could give up my 2018 and 2017 licence and go back to 2016.

The only reason I upgraded to 2018 was because it was paid for in my "maintenance" I wish I had the chance to run it with my plugins and revert back, but I couldn't. I now know I could have installed a trial, but you don't think of that when you get the big flashy upgrade now!!! do you.

Anyway, that's my rant over for the day...

I have tried to replicate this and found if I changed the output to Raster it seems to have done the trick. Unfortunately the lineweight has been lost, but I'm not sure if this is the correct way to go about it as I have been off SU for a long long while now.

Gaz...

@utiler said:

Nice work around, I can see the benefits immediately.

Thanks for sharing.

Gaz...

@unknownuser said:

I can't believe how much scaled information you can get on a sheet. very efficient. and yet still very attractive.

Krisidious,

All drawings are on A1 size media. This is:841 x 594mm or 33.1" x 23.4". All 2D scales are 1:50, or 1:100 if there is not quite enough room.

Gaz...

This is how I put my work together. I have been using this system for years and I have had no major issues yet "touch wood".

Each project I start is assigned the next sequential number. My next project will be No 0147.

From now on every reference file to this project all start with 0147, and all go in a sub directory of the project folder 0147. So at a glance I know where any file belongs. This goes for all images, invoices, letters, drawings, models etc etc etc.

I number my drawings as: 0147-AA-13-001-REV-A01

0147 – Project No:
AA – Normally Clients Initials
13 – The year
001 – Drawing No:
REV –A01 – Revision No: A01, A02, A03 – This allows for a lot of revisions on the same Dwg No:

This is how I have it all structured on the PC:

On larger projects I keep the Drawing No’s all the same and only update Sheet No’s when Saved/exported/plotted as there are always several drawings on one sheet. I always keep an Excel sheet with the created Sheet no’s on and a brief description of each sheet. This is more a check list for submitting to local authority of what is being submitted.

I don’t have an issue with different consultants having out of date drawings as I tend not to release anything significant until the client has OK’d everything. But if I do update anything of significance I would forward the drawings on to one and all involved as a matter of course. I don't have an issue with people not finding files on my system, as there is only me

The biggest pain “AutoCAD” is to keep an eye on your model space editing. I do not just do one elevation per dwg file or one floor plan per dwg file. I keep multiple instances of each project all in the same dwg file, including all revisions [save as]. This is much better to cross ref your work, but it’s a pain if you have 10x A1 sheets, with 6-8 drawings on each sheet, then trying to find the corresponding drawing in model space of a particular viewport in paper space. This calls for creating a large grid in model space and labelling each one with the paper space sheet no/viewport. Then each drawing goes in its own grid.

This doesn’t happen in SU. I do use more than one model for each project. I think the last project had about 4-5 models? not counting the scrapbook or detail drawings.

[Extensions & Alterations]
Model 01 - The existing Building & site plan
Model 02 - I take model 01 [save as] and edit it to do all the structural work, openings in existing building etc.
Model 03 - I take model 02 [save as] and add the new build parts to it.
Model 04 - I take model 03 [save as] and break it apart to show construction & detailing.
Model 05 – etc etc

Then my LO file will just reference each of these models as and when required.

I only use multiple models when the design is complete as it saves creating lots of extra scenes and hiding layers/components/styles etc. It’s just easier and less of a headache. Plus it's an easy "Start again" method if everything changes drastically.

Gaz...

[Edit]
I forgot to mention I always keep all files in all folders organised as: [Sort by DATE] this way they are all listed in the correct order.

A long while since my last post. Here is the last job I did using only Sketchup & Layout from start to finish. I have only done a few jobs solely in SU LO, as most of my work consists of AutoCAD in one form or another. But I'm trying to avoid it as much as possible now.

One big help was making groups from slices. I saw this in one of Nick Sonders videos. I don't know how I missed that one in the past??? Also a good tip from Nick was try and do as little in LO as possible, basic text & line work etc. I think maybe this is where I was getting frustrated a bit!!! Trying to do to much in LO...?

A big thanks to Nick as his videos really are a help.

The job below is just a basic single storey extension (UK) There is more info on there "graphically" than I would normally supply in a set of AutoCAD plans, hence the time involved is also greater than I would normally take. I need to stop messing about and be more productive

Gaz...

Sonder,

Like you, It's still a big learning curve for me. Knowing what I know from this drawing I will tackle the next SU model/Layout differently. The output was also a bit of an issue for me. These drawings have had to be raster because of the styles & shadows etc, but exporting on HIGH level the PDF file was around 28Mb. The same file in AutoCAD would be around 700-800kb. So I have had to export MEDIUM (11Mb) just so I can submit it to the local authority (20Mb file size limit)

@Peter,

The 3D construction I spent a bit of time on. The reason is the "Blocks" I have created can be used unlimited times on future drawings except maybe the "roof lantern roof joist" I have even created all the wall straps, joist hangers, truss clips etc. So the next project will have these blocks inserted and just reference to from the SU model. So this should mean less work on future projects???

Thanks for the hatch plugin link, I will have a look at that. I must point out that I don't use any plugins, scripts or additional toolbars at all. I just use it out of the box and as is. Styles & materials are my only additions to SketchUp.

Gaz...

Well, the last time I commented on this thread was back in 2009!!! and I have not really used SketchUp in any real way since I gave up on layout back then. But I have been using it for the last month or so mainly on the project below. It is a small domestic extension that is being adapted for disabled use. Its for a very good friend of mine who has no clue about reading 2D CAD plans and his Mrs is even worse!

To cut a long story short I did the model in SketchUp so they could understand what was going on and have input. Then it came time to prepare for drawings to be done. I stuck with SketchUp only because I had invested a load of time and effort up to that point and didn't want to start from scratch in AutoCAD.

Its taken be a good while to figure out Layout and how to get around things. I think I have spent more time in Layout than SketchUp, unlike AutoCAD where very little time was spent in paper space. I have found that the dimensioning side of things is utter rubbish. Why is it associated with the shape style dialog? Why has it got to have a dim format? I have to edit single dimension to get rid of the "mm" reference. The shape style would be 100% better if you could FILL with an image or tiled image as well as just plain colours. This would help massively on cross sections and with hatch patterns etc. Unless there is a way and I haven't figured it out yet?

I'm still learning new bits & short cuts every day with layout. One thing I did find out is that it is easier to use 3 or so models instead of just one cluttered model with umpteen hidden layers/styles/scenes etc and reference each of the models at a specific stage of the drawings.

If anyone has any tips on speeding things up, I'm all ears

Gaz...

@chrisglasier said:

@zx10r_gaz said:

As far as things go these are about average/above average as to the end result I need to submit for planning/ building regs. I have tried my best to get an end result to look like this with SU/LO but I'm afraid it just doesn't happen. And if it where to happen it would take far to long.

So it seems to be a matter of method or technique rather SU and Layout being compromised. Would it be fair to say that?

Chris

Chris,

I don't think so as I can't get it to "actually" happen. I have tried, even using images as hatch patterns to create the "look" but it just doesn't look right, and your editing a "2D" looking model in 3D which gets a tad frustrating at times. At the moment its to fiddly, to slow and to basic. I do all my annotations in model space. The only annotations in paper space is the template which contains the title block and spec etc. I use various styles for dimensioning/leaders/text/line weights/line types etc and the whole thing is just more fluid in AutoCAD and its so easy to quickly edit or amend.

@honoluludesktop said:

Gaz, Are you able to get a building permit with the 3 sheets you uploaded? 8-9 hours to design, and draft? Wow, I can't do that. I once worked with a French Architect, and noted a great differences between our practices. Do you do a lot more drawings while under construction? I don't think that I could get a small residence on less then 6-9 24"X36" sheets. Still, I have seen plans from other US states that draw less then I do (little more then you have shown). But, the fellow charged about 1/3 of the fee I expected to earn.

Honolulu,

Yes, I would expect to get full planning permission and full building regs approval from the attached plans. No further draughting would be required unless building control wanted a minor amendment. Or it was declined planning for some reason which I can't see at the moment. I would not do any further draughting for construction either, as there is more than enough info shown on plan and in spec to build it. It is minor "standard" works as far as construction goes. The only other info which would be required is the structural calculations for any steel work or UB's that are required. In this case there are 5 steels required in the new build section and 1 replacement steel in the existing build. The calcs are only required for building regs, so I will wait until planning has been granted before working on the calcs in case there is an amendment required. 8-9 hours is about average for an extension of this nature, as you have to draught existing as well as proposed. In the past have designed a New Build detached 3 bed house in under 6 hours from scratch. including all elevations, floor plans, sections, floor runs, window schedules, spec etc etc... It sailed straight through planning and building control without any further work. It was also built without any further draughting. And all this was on only 1 sheet of A1 media... Now I don't know if SU/LO would have been able to let me do that???

Gaz...

@tim said:

@linea said:

at the moment our authority will only accept A1 drawings (preferably black and white) or a dwg / plot file because their processing and archiving system only accommodates these. They could not accept an animation. In the UK these are fairly common constraints. So the benefits of SU and Layout alone are a little compromised.

Everyone is clear that LO has no problems with printing A1 or 36"x24" type drawings, right? I've seen so many threads and posts asking about that sort if thing that I thought it might be worth reminding people. My local printshop will run off 36x24 sheets from a USB stick for C$2.50 each and it takes very little time (I'm quite amazed at how fast modern large format printers can be) to get a full set for my current house project printed up.

I'll try to attach the pdf as an example -
[attachment=1:1des6gc6]<!-- ia1 -->Ashling Rd.pdf<!-- ia1 -->[/attachment:1des6gc6]
OK, looks like it should be there.

Tim & Linea,

Tim first... I have attached a copy of a set of plans I have recently drawn for a domestic extension in PDF format. They where done using basic 2D AutoCAD. I have "covered over" all reference to my company and my customer, as I'm not here to tout for business, but to to show what I'm really looking for from LO.

As far as things go these are about average/above average as to the end result I need to submit for planning/ building regs. I have tried my best to get an end result to look like this with SU/LO but I'm afraid it just doesn't happen. And if it where to happen it would take far to long. The attached plans represent around 8-9 hours of work from start to finish. I do like the work that fionmacool has posted up. It seems to have the "wow" factor, but on close inspection it still lacks a bit of detail??? but it's still impressive tho...

Linea,

I submit planning and building regs applications the length & breadth of the UK and I now only ever submit PDF files as per the one attached. The planning portal accepts PDF's as standard along with dwg & dxf etc. If the planning portal/local authority will not play ball, then just e-mail the PDF file along with the application to the relevant authority and post a cheque to them or pay over the phone with c/card etc... I have actually gone into my local, "local authorities" with a CD-Rom containing the PDF file. All local authorities post the applications online in PDF format anyway! but the really stupid thing is they actually print out "my submitted full colour PDF file" in Monochrome, then they SCAN IT back into their system "in monochrome PDF format" which then has a file size measured in Mb's not kb's as mine are... This "new" black and white PDF file is then displayed online to the general public in greatly reduced quality & 5x the file size...!!! will they ever learn...??? low carbon footprint? paperless office? not with the UK local authorities I'm afraid. Do as we say, not do as we do...

Gaz...

109-MK-09-001-REV-B-xxx.pdf

@tim said:

@zx10r_gaz said:

@unknownuser said:

How do you manage to do everything in 2D? I can't imagine how one can efficiently visualise complex systems in only 2 dimensions. Having a 3D model helps me to find places where parts simply don't match, or can't possibly fit, or merely look awful. The part I really don't like about 2D only is that you can end up lying to yourself about the suitability of a design. Lying to a client is one thing but lying to yourself.... that's foolish.

Hello Tim,

You shouldn't be to concerned, I manage just fine in 2D. I am "Old School" and in my "pre CAD" days everything I done was done on a drawing board with good old pencil & paper. A lot of the modern wonders of this world where conceived pre computers never mind pre 3D CAD...

I can design and draught a "finished and presented" new build or extension a lot quicker in 2D than I can with SketchUp when you take into consideration the amount of detailing, sections and annotations I do. SketchUp or rather Layout is merely trying to emulate the finished result you or I get from AutoCAD. At the end of the day I have to supply Plan views, elevations views and sections, and at present SketchUp "or Layout" does not supply the speed and quality of detailing for me to use it as a serious replacement to AutoCAD. I only wish it did. $$$$ but I won't give up on it ju

How do you manage to do everything in 2D? I can't imagine how one can efficiently visualise complex systems in only 2 dimensions. Having a 3D model helps me to find places where parts simply don't match, or can't possibly fit, or merely look awful. The part I really don't like about 2D only is that you can end up lying to yourself about the suitability of a design. Lying to a client is one thing but lying to yourself.... that's foolish.

Hello Tim,

You shouldn't be to concerned, I manage just fine in 2D. I am "Old School" and in my "pre CAD" days everything I done was done on a drawing board with good old pencil & paper. A lot of the modern wonders of this world where conceived pre computers never mind pre 3D CAD...

I can design and draught a "finished and presented" new build or extension a lot quicker in 2D than I can with SketchUp when you take into consideration the amount of detailing, sections and annotations I do. SketchUp or rather Layout is merely trying to emulate the finished result you or I get from AutoCAD. At the end of the day I have to supply Plan views, elevations views and sections, and at present SketchUp "or Layout" does not supply the speed and quality of detailing for me to use it as a serious replacement to AutoCAD. I only wish it did. $$$$ but I won't give up on it just yet...

Gaz...

@fionmacool said:

Hello, Sorry I didn't check out this conversation earlier.

I am a SketchUp fanatic, architect and registered Google SketchUp Trainer.

I don't use CAD, but I use SketchUp to do all of my construction drawings. So far, I have carried out a commercial project worth roughly $1m, and a complicated house construction cost €0.5m without using CAD or any other type of software.

Please check out this link to a video showing some of the work I have done http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jw-q409XZc

Here is a link to some further images showing my working drawings along with random photos of the built projects: http://picasaweb.google.com/sketchupireland/ViewsionAspireArchitecturePortfolioDrawings02?feat=directlink

We have a Google SketchUp ATC company called viewsion: http://www.viewsion.ie, and we have the world's first advanced training program for SketchUp users that shows how to create the type of drawings illustrated above. (I hope you don't mind the plug. It's the only one I'll submit here.)

Please let us know what you think. We would love to get to the bottom of this debate about SketchUp because we think it is the ultimate future for this amazing software.

Hello Paul,

I'm very very impressed by some of those images of final drawing that you have linked to. Where these created solely in SketchUp? I'm finding layout extremely frustrating/slow/basic??? Also the PDF export seems to create massive 26Mb files from a simple model. The only way I could find to create a (basic) A1 PDF of a model was to export as a jpg, and then print the jpg to a PDF printer I have installed. This got the same 26Mb Outlay PDF file down to 1.5Mb and both PDF files look exactly the same "poor" quality. (see attached PDF file, Hopefully!)

I would love to use SketchUp as my everyday design/draft tool, but at the end of the day it's all about the end product and at present AutoCAD lets me do everything I need. I only ever design in 2D and only do 3D when a client has a fancy for it.

But if all those drawings where created solely in SketchUp I would love to jump ship and learn more of your techniques and tips etc.

Gaz...

Bunk House - A1 - Rev-A.pdf

Thanks for the comments everyone...

@daniel said:

Nice presentaion, but I would delete the gray fence on the elevation views - they block too much of the house

Daniel,

The elevations "fence" views are more for the local Authority. They show the proposed boundary heights in relation to the property and neighbouring properties.

@dzinetech said:

Nice model Gaz. I'm suprised to see that the model uses Scottish construction methods; ie rebated windows instead of the typical English method of windows flush with the external wall face & mastic seal.

DzineTech,

All windows in the UK that I have ever been involved with are rebated slightly from the front face of external leaf "30mm" With 100mm external leaf, and window profiles now 70mm the inside edge/back of the window is flush with the inside edge of the external leaf. Are you thinking about the old Box Sash's? they where located on the back of the external leaf "100mm rebate" on them old things....

@anssi said:

For an architect, using AutoCad as a precise layout tool could be handy, but I have found out that the colour raster output from ACAD is crappy compared to a layout tool like InDesign. I haven't tried it from the latest version yet, though. Nice presentation, Gaz.

Anssi

Anssi,

This is the first time I have done such a thing as combining SketchUp with Acad, so not up to speed on other products/exporters etc.

For a "descent result" I "publish" the layouts from ACAD to a DWF file, then I PDF from the DWF file. Much better quality & much smaller file size too...

Gaz...

This is a model I created in SketchUp to show a client proposed views of a new bungalow. I tried so hard to do this in LayOut, but a few problems later I gave up. So I exported each view from SketchUp as a 2D graphic, then imported them into AutoCAD as a raster image, then created a layout/view ports for each image and the end result is what you see here.

This "View" is going to be submitted to the local authority along with full plans of the bungalow "Done with AutoCAD" The house is a bit basic, but because of local planning restraints and a small plot this is what I came up with.

Gaz...

Larger Image Link:
http://cb500racer.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/image/New_Bungalow.jpg

Small image:

This is a snap shot of the offending 1.35Mb file...

As you can see there is nothing to it...

Gaz...

I have just finished making a few components of rain water goods which I intended to post up on the forum (see pic's)

Problem is for some reason the skp file is a massive 1.35Mb and I cant understand why? I have purged all unused materials, components & styles from the model and I'm still left with 1.35Mb. I have never compiled components in SketchUP before so maybe I have done something wrong??? There are only 15 components which is not a lot.

Any info would be appreciated as to how to get the file size down

Gaz...

P.S. The pics shown below is not the file in question. This "pic" file is 1.85Mb

I have created a new purged model with only one of each component, and its still 1.35Mb...

@not registered yet said:

I seem to be having a problem with Step (Scene) 7.

I draw my arc then attempt to push/pull through the face but I am getting an "Offset limited to ~7 3/8" message.

Any suggestions?

Thanks much.

Marc

(Elmarq)

Hello Marc,

I think you will encounter this problem if you do not delete the "construction lines" from the arch to where you draw your arc. Delete these before you push/pull and it will work fine.

Gaz...

Thanks Gaieus,

Good tip that.

I had exactly the same issue as Goggin, too slow to function, and now its OK... LO still takes much longer to start up than SU does...

Gaz...

Many thanks form me also...

I will use these for sure.

Gaz...

I started off trying to see if I could replicate the old style roof truss that were common 400 500 years ago. But once I made the trusses and put them on the corbels, I then decided to do the perlins....etc etc

I have attached some images taken from the model, and I have also put a small animation of it on youtube.

I've only been using SU for about 2-3 months now, and I'm learning more everyday

Gaz...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mkfnrcr4Mw
Video Link