Yes Pete you are right John McCain has an identity crisis. He is shifting campaign slogans faster than a crooked blackjack dealer shuffles the deck.

He can't be for Bush that would be suicide unless he's speaking to a republicans only diner. He can't be PRO war unless he's speaking to a veterans gathering. He can't be be the candidate for change with 30+ years in public office, unless the real candidate for change is winning and the American public is crying for change.

To be honest I simply can not understand why we are even discussing a close race at times given all of the hats John McCain must wear to keep people happy.

How many times has his campaign changed its slogan? How many campaign staff that he started with are still there?

You have to give the republicans credit for keeping their candidate alive and kicking despite the seemingly insurmountable odds against them.

Now I do hope that McChameleon turns back into a generic senator from Arizona on November 5th, but he deserves a lot of credit for keeping this election exciting.

Besides He's a lot less scary than Mitt Romney, or Rudy Those two guys scared the dickens out of me.

@pbacot said:

Yep. I laid myself off this week. Actually I'm going on vacation, but the slowdown is here. I've some projects but nothing active.

Nice one....I have my own business and I'm the only employee, but My wife fired me a long time ago because the business was failing. I just never left....

I'm petrified at the potential of having to re-enter the workforce if there is indeed still a workforce.

Ron is correct in order to get elected the candidates will need to come to the middle to attract voters.

This philosophy leads to out and out lies to promise everyone everything in order to get their vote. Unfortunately we can no longer give everyone everything we are seeing first hand the bad idea that is.

I think there is also a boost in the health care sector employment as well. I believe the reason for that is this whole mess is making people SICK. Literally.

OK I can't resist this humorous analogy. Well funny to me that is.

That Swishing sound you hear is McCain's bid for the presidency being flushed down Joe's toilet...

If it turns out "Joe" was a plant or him or his boss were doing anything that violates state license laws I'll bet the republicans can't wait to flush him down the proverbial drain.

Ron

I want to give you credit your political opinion is quite often in the minority on this forum and yet you continually express your honest opinion and do so in a respectful manner. I admire that and welcome your comments. I've followed many of the links you post and laughed at some of the things that you find humorous.

We are after all on a Sketchup forum and after the dust settles in this election I'm sure we can all agree that the things we have in common are far greater and more important than the things we differ on.

Soon we can all go back to discussing Sketchup and the pending version 7 release. Soon we can all go back to being impressed by each others latest sketchup endeavor. Let's all agree that although politics are important they are not what define who we are.

Unfortunately for Samuel he became a little too public with his politics and it could very well be detrimental to his future. I would wager to say that on November 5th 99.999% of the American public will simply not give a crap about Joe the plumber but if in his 15 minutes of fame it turns out that he forever altered his life in a detrimental way by stepping into the meat grinder I'm sure him and those people around him that will most certainly be affected by his decisions will regret it.

Thanks Ross.

I am on occasion partisan though. I do feel that the democratic party is more closely aligned with my own opinions, but I have never made more than $45,000 dollars a year in salary. Currently I'd be happy bringing home that much. I can't say which side of the purple fence I would be on if I were making $450,000. I would hope that I'd still subscribe to my principles but I can understand why people who earn more money want to keep more of it.

Having children myself and experiencing the un-imaginable JOY they bring to my life I can't imagine anyone EVER wanting to end a baby's life, But I have also seen first hand how bringing a child into this world where the mother and father have no regard for that child's life results in nothing but pain and suffering for everyone involved. I can't imagine a government bureaucrat telling a woman what she should do with her body. It's a moral conundrum.

I have my own reason for hating Guns. A high school friend died when a gun he was handling at another friends house went off. I formulated my opinion then that guns kill people. are guns necessary - yes. Should people have the right to own them? I'm on the fence about this one. Recently my wife and children stayed at their grandfathers house, He's an avid hunter and there are guns in every room of his house. I can't tell you how nervous I was letting them stay in a house that had guns in it. So again we all have our own reasons and rational for our political believes. I just wish the hate talk and negativity could be toned down and people could agree that we have all walked in different shoes and therefore it's understandable that we have different opinions.

our vote is akin to therapy it allows us to breathe out and express our satisfaction at doing our small part to make this world a better place when we leave it than it was when we entered it.

I wish life were simpler but it is not.

Ron

We agree that the country is headed in the wrong direction. The trend towards socialism is indeed troubling but even more troubling is having no alternative plan to change our countries current path. We are in a runaway train barreling high speed towards another train and when the two trains collide socialism ain't gonna look that bad.

What is going to happen to our society when the US defaults on those loans from China, Japan, and other foreign countries. Whats going to happen to our country when the US starts printing dollar bills like they are confetti for a parade. That's what they will be worth nothing.

To go back to my bread analogy what are we going to do when the dollar becomes so de-valued that you need a thousand of them to buy a slice of bread.

Folks that's where we are headed if we continue to be a debtor nation.

Homeland security is meaningless if the government pays its workforce in I.O.U's

Soon it's not only going to be Joe the plumber that does not pay his taxes it's going to be every many woman and child fending for themselves

The current crisis is just tip of the iceberg. Unless we get our government, and it's people to live with in it's means and pay down the debt and deal with the pending economic, and ecological train wreck coming these discussions about CEO's and Plumbers are pointless.

Err I find it incredible that a presidential candidate would invoke this persons name live on national television several times during a presidential debate when he had never spoken to this individual himself. WOW that's a 'maverick" decision alright.

and Now he is forced to apologize to him on David Letterman show and he STILL has not spoken to him personally.

so let's get this straight...

1. his name is not Joe its Samuel (strike one)
2. he is not a licensed plumber (strike two)
3. He does not even pay his taxes on his current income (strike three)

John hasn't anyone ever told you to be careful who you get into bed with.

This to me is a classic example of bad judgment.

Seems like the innocent little "Joe" is not such a stranger to McCain after all.

Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who's Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating's son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

@rickw said:

Part of the issue is that CEO's are a commodity subject to the laws of supply and demand. But should we regulate their pay? If we try, we start down the socialist/communist road.

Sorry to say it but we have already traveled several miles down that road to socialism.

Who owns Fannie Mae? who Owns Freddie Mac? Who owns a controlling interest in AIG? What government is Bailing out Banks...IE giving taxpayers money to Banks...Yep the US. What country bailed out the Auto Industry and is in the process of doing it again...THE US.

Edit: Now that the executives at AIG are on our the tax payers payroll they are agreeing to cut back...

404 Page Not Found - CNNMoney

(money.cnn.com)

What country is going to PURCHASE illiquid assets from financial institutions that practiced questionable lending and sold mortgage backed securities to other banks...Yep the US government.

What political party president is proposing to purchase home owners loans in order to renegotiate their value and help home owners stay in their homes...Again the US Government.

Seems like these days the only people free from government regulations are the ultra rich who for some reason unknown to me everyone wants to be off limits.

It seems hypocritical to decry the pitfalls and dangers and evilness of socialism while we stand in line to borrow money from china so that we can turn that money over to Iran and Venezuela to purchase oil. Yea we hate the way you run your government...umm but can we please have another barrel of oil this month...or we hate the way your government limits freedom in your society...umm but can you increase our credit line because our free and just society is going broke.

Is the U.S. Going Broke?

Now that the federal government has bailed out Fannie and Freddie, who's going to bail out the federal government?

Forbes (www.forbes.com)

The US needs to fundamentally alter the way our federal and local governments receive and distributes money to and from it's citizens. we are over 10 trillion dollars in debt. Republicans, democrats, independents..heck we are all partially responsible for the current situation in one way, shape or form. If we think we can continue to run our government in the same way that got us into this mess and expect a different outcome...well that is insane.

@unknownuser said:

edit: In the end it doesn't matter anyway cause things will carry-on with no marked changes. Just as they have after every election.

Indeed this is precisely why we must vote. IF we don't vote than corruption will have won.

If you are a woman and want to keep your right to have control over your body be between you and your doctor and family than the election does matter.

If you have a son or daughter in the military right now it does matter.

If you think the current administrations attitude toward torture is not in America's best interest then the election does matter.

If you are against gay marriage the election matters.

If you want less gun control the election matters.

If you want the government to stay out of the health care system then the election matters.

What ever you do if you are of voting age please VOTE Given the closeness of the past elections your VOTE does matter.

Corruption wears a purple shirt. It knows that both parties are filled with human beings who are imperfect. Unless and until we as citizens demand and follow up our verbal dissatisfaction with politicians who don't have our interest at heart, we will never realize our full potential as a nation.

I say we abolish both parties or all political parties and simply eliminate lobbying that involves money.

People who are drawn to public service should just join a "public service union" a NON-Profit organization that simmply provides resources for ALL candidates to get their particular message across to the voters.

No different than the teachers union, the steel workers union, the American Society of architects, Etc.

In fact lets make public service a profession and have professional requirements like architects, lawyers etc. Part of their education requirements would be courses in morality and understanding of what the requirements for a "just" society are.

If any member of the "Public Service Union" PSU violates the ethics or laws that govern them their license to be a member is revoked and they can never hold public office in the future.

We could take "politics" out of public officials oversight and instead of one party or the other jumping up to defend a member of their party who has gone bad, ALL members of the PSU would be on their own and only that individual member would be left to defend their actions because no other members would stand to gain from the outcome of this particular members staying or going.

Ouch!

2007-2008 Forbes CEO salary list

forbes.com

(www.forbes.com)

Lets just look at the top 25 people (note: see some names there that are in companies now in the news )

these top 25 CEO's make a combined annual salary just shy of 2 BILLION dollars

Yes they pay taxes on this large sum of money...They can probably afford accountants to help them milk the tax code to keep as much as possible but even they can't avoid paying taxes all together.

and yes they buy large homes and expensive cars and yadda yadda yadda.

But I find it hard to fathom how 25 human beings can earn 2 billion dollars and masses and masses of people support this as "the American dream" do you honestly belive that these individuals are "trickling down that 2 billion dollars"

now say for giggles that we expand this to the top 250 CEO's...

are we really saying that we need a tax code that lightens the tax burden on these individuals in the theory that they will "trickle down" that un-taxed income on thier own with out the government.

Look at the company names...did these companies have a philosophy that favored the every day common man and woman. Did these companies have the best interest of the masses of people on their minds, let alone their own employees.

Granted there are some that may in fact be morally more decent than others but let's all just look at this economic disparity and give it a quick sniff. If it smells rotten it probably is.

excel spreadsheet because I don't trust my math.

@tomsdesk said:

Phil...first, I agree completely about a flat tax! The concept has been around as long as I've been paying taxes, why don't we have one yet? (Who's against it anyway? :`)

Hint: It's Not the guy buying a $1.00 hot dog

@tomsdesk said:

And your little analogy is just wonderful! Well lit right on the point...with shadowy, but far reaching, moral implications!

Yes thankfully it's not reality. Well the part about staring down at a table with only one slice of bread on it is unfortunately a deadly reality for far too many people in this world. And I'm as guilty as the next "Joe sixpack" for my lack of ability to do anything about it. (except vote)

It's one thing to sit here in my comfortable home typing on a computer that cost $3,000 dollars that is connected to a DSL line that cost $29.00 a month and espousing my moral position in life...but it's quite another thing to wake up tomorrow and actually do something that will positively affect the lives of people who need it.

I'm just as guilty as the next person of wanting to hold on to my moral believes while attempting to squirrel away a nest egg for my future and my family's future.

Thankfully there is alcoholic beverages and mood altering drugs to help people deal with this mind boggling moral dilemma that will tear your heart apart if permitted.

If everyone paid a flat 10% tax, that would be equitable, would it not? Each person would pay the same proportion of their income - their "fair share" - right? So how is it that the graduated brackets we have now leave some with the impression that the rich aren't paying their "fair share"?

Rick I agree. Lets have a flat tax....a consumption tax...what ever you want to call it. Let's eliminate the IRS let's all agree that if you can buy a 1$ hot dog you can surely pay $1.10. if you can buy a 10 million dollar boat...you can probably pay the 10% tax on that boat.

Here is an analogy: Maybe a fallacious analogy but it's how my brain works.

Let's say for sake of conversation that we froze everyone's and I mean everyone's current accumulated paper wealth, Bank accounts, stock value, savings accounts, .....pocket change...and assigned each and every person in this world a dollar value. I'd be a negative dollar value but heck I don't matter much anyway....OK so lets say you end up with a net worth of $1,000 and someone else ends up with a net worth of 10 Billion...Ok well the guy worth 10 billion did well for him self and err the guy worth 1,000 has a ways to go....now lets give each and every person in this world a slice of bread for every dollar they are worth. They and they alone can eat this slice of bread. This slice of bread for every dollar you are worth will only be useful for that individual and all other sources of food on this planet will cease to exist....OK so if you are still reading this you know by now that I'm a bit off kilter but heck we need to know our weaknesses don't we...

Now if you have only 1,000 slices of bread to eat for the rest of your live...umm you better get used to eating a crumb a day...but if you have 10 billion slices of bread to eat well you can probably consume a thousand slices a day and live a full life...OK so what happens to the leftover bread when MR. 10 billion dies...remember it was genetically coded to only be edible by him....it will rot....

OK that's not a very eloquent example but the point is that we are all on this planet together as a human race if the goal is survival of the few at the expense of the masses then that's where we are headed.

At some point we all place more value on a piece of paper with some past presidents depiction on it then we do for a slice of bread...

I've done financially well at times in my life and also I've been homeless and living off of the kindness of friends and family. I've been evicted from my home simply for being eleven days late on my rent. At one point in my life I spent 5 months in a hospital. Eventually the student loan companies found out where I was and actually called me at the hospital while I was confined to my hospital bed and unemployed with not a single penny to my name (NO LIE) they were demanding to know when I was going to make payment. .... give me a break since when are a few dollars more important than a human life.

I like the food comparison because we can all relate to it...so Imagine a football stadium or several football stadiums filled with 10 billion or a million or what ever un-imaginable number you want to pick ...imagine looking at that and saying to your self "you expect me to eat all of that".... now imagine yourself looking down at a single slice of bread and saying to yourself this is all the food I have for the rest of my life.....

my comment about pulling your fair share may be mis-guided or un-informed or simply bone-headed...I really don't care I simply believe that we as a society have lost sight of our concern for basic human dignity. Pick any CEO of any now defunct company Enron, Viacom, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Lehman Brothers, Etc. Etc. Etc. go back in time to the S&L crisis, Look at non defunct companies...look at oil companies...Dig a little deeper look at the top 10 paid executives in each of those companies. Look at how many slices of bread they have. did they really work 1 million times harder than their employees, 4 million times harder, 400 million times harder...

The divide between the haves and have-NOT's is growing I believe this is Fact..I could be wrong but I believe it is true.

BTW as soon as I was able to fend for myself and employed and paying my own way in this world I began to give to those who were less fortunate than myself.

Now that I have two children and can barely take care of putting money away for their future I'm less able to give to charity.

So for me it's not a question of keeping what you earned as much as it's a question of earning what you keep.

My diatribe is over now. You can all go back to eating your slice of bread.

"Would you believe that the 400 richest American families have more wealth than the the bottom half of American families put together. Is this healthy? Inequality has never been this high before. The last time it was close was the year before the great depression. Could there be a connection?"

DING>>>DING>>>>DING give that man a prize. This is precisely the problem. The culture of greed has been allowed to progress to the point that the wealthy literally have more money than they know what to do with. They certainly are not trickling it down. And if the tax laws allow them to keep more of it than they are not pulling their proportionate share of the cart.

How to reward people for attaining wealth appropriately is at question but a reward that is to the detriment of the masses seems inappropriate.

I think with less than a month to election day we are all wearing rose colored glasses:

Which only allow us to see our own point of view.

and if by chance we take those glasses off then our blinders:

Will prevent us from looking in the wrong direction.

As I read these posts I find myself agreeing only with the ones that espouse the same ideology that I subscribe to. I wish we were all a bit more flexible or that the issues that divide us were not so divisive but that's not reality.

Reality is that this country is in a far worse situation than anyone would of, could of, should of imagined. Thankfully which ever candidate is elected they will have NO CHOICE but to take us in a new direction.

Let's all agree to make a wish that the next president has the desire, ability, and backbone to make the necessary changes to get "OUR" country back on the right course for financial, and moral, and ethical leadership.

I've had this before where a perfectly good looking view is subsequently rendered buggy by the addition of geometry to the model that should otherwise not cause shadow problems. Have you tried cutting a section plane in front the visible objects but behind the "camera" to essentially eliminate anything behind the camera casting a shadow on the camera.

Article Two of the Constitution sets the principal qualifications to be eligible for election as President. A Presidential candidate must:

* be a natural-born citizen of the United States;
* be at least thirty-five years old;
* have been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.

I guess that they are all "qualified".

so now we must vote for the one we feel is the most capable or has the better judgment,......or whatever you choose as your personal criteria.

We all agree that we need to move the country in a new direction....err I do hope we can agree on that.

So choose wisely when you cast your vote for the candidate that you feel can lead us in a new direction.

I have my opinion on the matter and I'm sure others will disagree but in the end let's agree that the current administration has taken the country in a direction that is no longer perceived as the right direction.

Jim and Dave here is an analogy

Having an idea is like lighting a match unless you do something with that lit match it will burn out.

Dave's idea was wonderful and credit for having the idea is well deserved. I'm just glad he had the foresight to do something with that idea IE: pass it on to you and allow the flames of a good idea to grow into a completed project.

Nothing....I never listen to anything while at work and rarely listen to anything other than classical music. I find that music is or can become a distraction from thinking. When I am truly focused on work I can sometimes completely loose track of time and place and become absorbed in my efforts. Music and in particular music that has lyrics can distract me from my own thoughts. Purely instrumental music is OK but even that can be a distraction.

I would be hard pressed to even name a current band, let alone the name of one of their songs. Even when I listen to music I rarely know who is playing it and don't retain that information even if it is announced on the radio.

I thought women have spent countless years trying to get us to think about them as whole human beings and NOT to treat them as an assembly of body parts.

Having said that however There are numerous ideas floating in my head right now involving the process of making ice cream in this newly proposed manner that I find quite appealing.