Whoa...there is a lot of information in this conversation to sift through...I'll need to finish up some real work before I respond.

Has anyone here done any research or reading on the creation of a "consumer society" I remember a conversation a few years back with friends at a diner party and one of those conversations was about the creation or adoption of the television as a medium for displaying consumer products to essentially hook society on the purchase of those products and then ensure that we would have a docile and tranquil workforce that would be happy to work in order to get an income to be able to purchase the products they saw on tv.

Anyway if anyone has links or books they would recommend on this subject let me know. With the current economic situation it is a topic I would like to read more about. here is a link I found with Google but there are simply too many and where to start might be facilitated by listening to people on this forum who have also been interested in this subject and have already sifted through the web for links.

http://www.infed.org/biblio/pedagogy_consumer_society.htm

A quote from that link

"Consumption cannot be consummated, but is the “frustrated desire for totality.”[55]

For Baudrillard, not only are we never satiated and always frustrated, but there is little possibility of resistance. For “the collective function of advertising is to convert us all to the code…The code is totalitarian; no one escapes it: our individual flights do not negate the fact that each day we participate in its collective elaboration.”[56] The code comes to dominate us, to enchain us, by “imposing a coherent and collective vision, like an almost inseparable totality. Like a chain that connects not ordinary objects but signifieds, each object can signify the other in a more complex super-object, and lead the consumer to a series of more complex choices.”[57] Consumers essentially ‘buy’ into the code of consumption so completely that they lose the capacity for critical reflection. Furthermore, any form of resistance is readily incorporated and assimilated back into the code.

It sounds ominous to me.

Yea it was a flash/xml template I'm attempting to modify. key word "attempting" I'm getting too old to learn new applications. I could just change the mp3 that the template references to nothing but I have not figured out how to delete the icons for the different music selections. Oh well when you are a control freak like me and you want to do everything yourself like create your own website versus hiring someone to do it. Then you suffer the consequences.

So do you think Joe the Plumber will actually appear with John McCain I understand he has been invited to appear on the campaign with him. If this guy was truly just an average citizen who happen to get to meet Barack Obama, Well he should be laughing all the way to the bank right now because his story is I'm sure for sale to the highest bidder right now. He may be able to afford that plumbing business after all.

David

I'm glad to see your apology to Susan.

There is more to this forum than the corner bar, Don't judge the forum for posts in the corner bar. This is a particularly divisive time in American history regardless of who the candidates for president are. The fact that there is an African American, a female American, a War Veteran, and a civil service veteran in the race makes it even more divisive. We are all entitled to our opinions, however the methods we employ to express those opinions can be subject to discussion.

I'm not going to claim moral superiority in this matter, because I'm getting grey hair that gives away my age and some days I can't remember what I ate for breakfast let alone what I typed in this forum days ago.

So you typed this "Building a work ethic and self respect is the solution." Great I agree now let's talk about how we can achieve that.

I'll go first.

1. Let's agree to treat all people with respect regardless of their situation in life. Regardless of their race, religion, sex, age, or political or sexual preference.

If you agree with number 1 then lets move on to yours Number 2.

Ron

I have to say having political conversations with you is pleasant. I think the world would be a better place if we could all discuss political issues in a civil manner.

Look at how much money the US government pisses away each and every year. We could afford a national health care system under our current tax rate plan.<<<

10 billion a month in Iraq could go a long way towards a national health care system.

I agree with you that a socialist society my be a dis-incentive to improving your current economic situation. I used to work at a gas-station convenience store. People would come in and use a 1 dollar food stamp to buy a 3 Cent piece of gum to get the 97 cents of real change. They would do this several times until they had enough change to buy a pack of cigarettes, Then they would do it again and again until they had enough money for a six pack of beer. They would do this while they had three children in tow who looked like they could use a square meal. I think the welfare system back then was broken. I'm not aware of what system is in place today but I would agree with your assessment that there are undesirable aspects to a socialistic society. I'm sure there are undesirable aspects to any form of society.

Anyway It's nice to have pleasant and enlightening conversations with people that disagree with you. I hope the next few weeks that this philosophy wins and the dirty sleazy politics subsides.

I hope the republicans who are spouting hateful "anti-American" retoric are prepared for the backlash coming. Here is a congresswoman from my own state who is implying that there are democrats who are anti-American and the media should investigate this. In my opinion this has gone too far. If you don't agree with some republicans you are a leftist, socialist, terrorist, anti-American... this hate-speak has got to stop. This only feeds and empowers the radical fringe who will use it as mental justification for violence.

http://www.dccc.org/page/content/bachmannvideo1/

here is what Colin Powell had to say about this topic

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/10/19/sots.powell.obama.cnn

seems to me the rich and powerful are doing anything they can to hold on to power.

Nice images I've signed up to follow your blog.

WOW Juan

Those are some very deep thoughts. Although my little brain can't really comprehend the full extent of the implications. I do believe that there are forces at work that are of a higher nature than people can plainly see.

Thanks for giving me a peep hole to have a glimpse into the a possible higher meaning for the outcome of our choices.

did anybody here ever draw with one of these.

anyone know what this is called?

That's funny. Although who wants to have that much vibration inside your mouth....err Ahh never mind...

Thanks Ron I just did a quick web slide show to kick start the process

I'm working on the real website but real paying projects are getting in the way.

here's a taste of what the real site will look like:

Domik - Responsive Architecture Template

(www.nvizeon.com)

I just did a quick...very quick scan of thier forum it looks like there may be issues with the application. But the prospect of the technology seems interesting.

@rickw said:

We all know he's for "change" (it's all we'll have left in our pockets after paying for his new social entitlement programs)
We all know he's for "hope" (we hope we can live on the "change" left in our pockets)
We all know he's for raising the taxes on the rich.
We all know he's for meeting with leaders of rogue states without precondition.
We all know he thinks he's campaigning against George W Bush.

So, aside from a decent-looking younger guy who can give a great delivery of a canned speech that says practically nothing (almost hypnotic, isn't he?) and an older running-mate who thinks President Roosevelt addressed the nation on TV during the stock market crash of 1929, what do we get? Does anyone have substantive answers? I'll not be argumentative - but I will be analytical

one answer:

Our government is 10 Trillion dollars in debt. And some say that's just the Debt that's obvious the real number is likely to be 70 TRILLION

1. the first social entitlement program he should tackle is our societies DEBT so let's see who can he get the money from...oh yes the citizens ALL of them rich poor, white black, male female, Young old...we are all on this sinking ship together and we had all better pick a hole to plug.

2. See answer number 1

3. See answer number 1

4. Misleading he has said he would meet with after the appropriate lower level diplomatic arrangements have been met. But even if that is not true do you believe we can solve world problems with our enemies with Bombs alone. What we tend to forget is that these "ENEMIES" are just like us a society of people and unles you intend to eradicate every single Iranian living on this planet than it seems to me that we should find a way to have open and honest dialog with them so that we can get on with the business of allowing people of any and all ethnic backgrounds to develop and prosper as peace loving people. I don't pretend to understand the motives of the Iranians but I do firmly believe that violence and war will only lead to more violence and war. it's a simple law of physics action and reaction. Until someone is truly brave enough to step aside and let an aggressor fall on his face the shoving match will continue. War and war mongering are not the answer and never have been.

5. See answer number 1

Anyway as to your response on "substantive" answers specific to Obama well when you are lost and you get to a fork in the road and one sign says stay on the same path you have been on for the last eight years or take this path which may lead to a happier place...I'll take may or might, or possibly. or slim chance in hell, or only a glimmer of hope...over certain continued suffering any day.

I don't claim to know what Obama's plans for our countries future are anymore than you can claim to know what McCain has planned for our future.

Let's just boil it down to candidate x and candidate y. Candidate x represents a continuation in whole or part of the policies of the past eight years and candidate y represents a "potential" change in the policies of the last eight years...Again I vote for the "potential" change.

So for me it's really less about the specifics of Obama's promised policies because we all know how much a politicians promise is worth, and more about that glimmer of hope that "change" may happen.

Ron

yes the 3d graphics are architecture related but unless they are for my own architecture than I have no liability associated with them.

In fact I am in the process of spinning off my 3d graphics work under a separate company since my liability insurance premium is partial determined by my revenue and if I can separate ALL the work I do for other companies that would not requires a license then my "architure" fees that I must report to my insurance carrier can go down.

check out my graphics examples

images

(www.nvizeon.com)

Ron

That's precisely why I love doing 3d graphics projects. Client X calls and says we have two weeks before our presentation can you get this done. I say yes....work night and day for two weeks and upon delivery of said graphics....Blamo my involvement is over...No liabilities...No call backs...No un-foreseen conditions...

Even though a house project is done we are still responsible for the project and our liability related to the project continues on.

But I thought Architects did not retire but rather worked until they croak and we need to pry the parallel bar from their cold stiff hands.

Given the state of my finances that's my retirement plan.

@johnsenior1973 said:

@unknownuser said:

The fact that there are eight threads is because there are multiple issues being discussed relative to politics.

Not really. It's mainly down to you spamming the board with all the anti_McCain or Palin links you can find.

I couldn't care less about the American election, but your spamming of this board has made me wish I could vote so that I'd vote for McCain.

Yea I've gotten a wild hair up my arse lately I'm not a very social person mainly just do my job and take care of my family. I work at home alone in my home office. I consider the people I've met through Sketchup as friends so I'm expression my opinion on this forum. It is the corner bar after all. But even in a bar it's possible to offend people or to blab too much after a few too many drinks.

SO tell me what you would rather talk about and If I have anything to communicate with you about that subject I'll give the politics a rest for a while.

Yes it's a popular subject for the next two weeks than fortunately or unfortunately it will fade away. The threads do tend to resolve themselves into people agreeing to disagree and then we move on. The fact that there are eight threads is because there are multiple issues being discussed relative to politics.

It's kind of like the olden days when you went to a bar to drink beer, you always smelled like cigarettes afterwords even if you did not smoke.

Rick have you watched this video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147

Now I'm not a conspiracy theorist and this guy sounds like one but heck with the state of our economy right now who knows who to trust.

Let me know what you think of it.

@rickw said:

@unknownuser said:

Now that I have two children and can barely take care of putting money away for their future I'm less able to give to charity.

I would agree for myself, too (though it's wife & 1 child). If our taxes were lower, we could probably afford to give more to charities - which would be markedly better than giving it to the government.
Overall, charities averaged around 84% efficient in 2004 - meaning that 84% of the money goes to the needy, with 16% to administering the organization. The (US) government is the reverse of that - only 30% efficient, with 70% going to the bureaucracy! I don't know if other national governments are equally pathetic, but it certainly makes me doubt the efficacy of government programs (and the sanity of the candidates who propose/support them).

So, how about a flat 12% tax with a credit for charitable giving?
And prohibiting campaign contributions from sources other than private citizens (and then with caps)?
And as long as we're dreaming, how about balanced-budget legislation?

Rick I agree now let's get a cup of "Joe" and discuss more serious issues like when am I going to find time to get back to work...hehe.

@david. said:

@unknownuser said:

How many times has his campaign changed its slogan?

I hate to bring facts into this discussion. But, his campaign slogan has been "Country First" at least since he won the primaries.

OK, now back to the Twilight Zone...

David there's no room in here for Facts. I am greatly offended that you feel the need to discuss FACTS. I'm also going to file a racial discrimination suit on behalf of the word FICTION because it obvious that you are discriminating against the word FICTION solely based on the number of letters in the word.

LOL! We do still need to have a sense of humor don't we.