Unfortunate we're not close or we would be having a drink while you explain me rhino (can't get my head around nurbs). I'm in Europe, Portugal to be more precise.

I'm still up because I've finished some 3D illustrations yesterday that made me (as always) work long hours in the nigh so now my "internal clock" it's switched, but I really should try to fall a sleep...

Will keep the conversation tomorrow he he he

I think there's just the two of us here now Jeff lol. We're the work "Owls" (but I could be wrong since I don't know what time it in where you are lol)
Wanna go for a beer and keep discussing this (and the other topic) at the bar ?

@unknownuser said:

i dunno, what's the difference between this and, say, lying to an entire country and/or world in order to start a full fledged war?

That's a great point Jeff, but for me that's a crime too and the problem is: it wasn't condemned. But now 2 bads make a right? what's the difference between him and the others now, where does this freedom stops and start privacy, and who judges what it's public interest or not?

@unknownuser said:

seems super tweaked to me that the u.s. gov't has the blood of a million or so people on their hands this decade then have the nerve to try to paint assange as some sort of criminal because someone might die if he puts these documents on the internet..

I don't think they have the moral to say that too. but keep in mind I was the one saying that these can put at risk other lives (my concern) not the government (I don't know if the US use that argument or not...).

Amazingly I think a thing like this would be better if it had happen during the invasion of Afghanistan and revealing all the papers that said there's no WMDs. For me that would be "public interest" and justifiable.

jeff.
I really believe that 64 bits can be slower in certain circumstances but the truth is will anyone notice the slowdown?
Anyone that uses 3Ds max/Photoshop notice the slowdown when jumping between 32 and 64bits? I don't (but I'm not a super max user, and in photoshop i really don't notice a slowdown), but in big stuff I notice 32 bits either getting slower or simply not getting at all...

Sometimes the question is not "how fast will it run", but rather "will it run?"

@tfdesign said:

No, your wrong. This is exactly what it is, freedom of speech. But it isn't journalism either, it's voyeurism.

So what's the difference between this and breaking an NDA? stealing industrial plans and revealed it? Getting info about the identity of undercover cops and point them? By this logic (steal non-public info and share) all of this is "freedom of speech", and shouldn't be a crime or condemned. Where does this "freedom" ends and starts the "privacy"?

I don't really have a problem in most of the stuff wikileaks is showing, most are gossips or completely pointless info (I certainly didn't need classified info to know Berlusconi likes women a lot...lol), but things that can start jeopardising others people's life (like the stuff on drugs I mentioned above) i'm completly against, and if he didn't even reveal half the documents who's evaluating what should not be revealed?
Raising other question: why is Assange a judge of what should or should not be public?

I think is astonishing a thing like could these happen in the US. For the people in the USA, is these the buzz of the moment too there? or more of "these is bad but not too bad, more of joke on the government"

This new era of "freedom" can be scary sometimes...

Wow. Wasn't expecting these interview here...

In Bonzai3D, if they can cut down the number of clicks for doing one thing, like the merge/create faces (could be always turned on or have the option to create/merge when we want), that could help users jumping back and forth/migrating to Bonzai.

"In fact they are only useful to users who generate really large models. A 64 bit application allows for much larger models, but at the expense of being a bit slower(...)"
What a shocker...

Anyway, congratulations Sketchucation.
Good interview and keep up the good work.

with all honestly i think this wikileaks stuff it's a CRIME and this will just stop when someone get hurt or dies.
The latest news is that wikileaks just revelad that the american have intel about mozambique prime minister and other political entities beeing related to drug traffic.

Do this guy even realised that this puts in danger the people helping gathering information about this crimes? What's next? Revealing all the names of undercover cops? reveal the adresses of their families while you're at it...

This is not freedom of speech, This is stealing private info and making it public. Not even that but CLASSIFIED info. It's classified for a reason, it's not gonna cure all the diseases or end the hunger. This is not in the interest of people! If this is legal, then stealing and turning public formulas for new farmaceutical meds or the new engine plans for BMW, AUDI or even NASA, should be legal too (and even that would be more in the interest of people than this)

Yes, this really gets me...

Jeff

Yeah I know that point, but I tough that was a question that is, from the beginning, granted:
"It's the artist that does the project, SW/HW are just tools"

And I said that about pixar, but I surely doubt that they don't have a little bit of all with all the departments and freedom they have (not everyone needs raw performance, or open OS, or better user experiences, it can go any side).

But you have to be careful in how you present your argument. For example I agreed with everything you say in that way you presented.
But you forgot to had a "little" thing to the equation: Time/deadlines/speed.

For example, I could model in a mac using cinema4d and render it on brazil or something (photoshop and piece of paper with pen/pencil is something that i can't still pass ) and i would do still do the job in about the same time (more or less once i got confortable with the TOOLS). But render it, working with big files, do heavy calculations, physics, etc on a mac in the same budget that a pc counterpart, in the same time, in a tight deadline, is Impossible (2.6ghz are slower than 3ghz, dual is worst than quad for multicore, and 4Ggram it's less than 8, a low end GPU it's worse than a High end GPu,obvious..).

And that's a Fact
I certainly hoped not (better competition would be better to us, costumers).

jeff hammond

2008 article

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Pixar_Big_on_Linux_Clusters_-Mac_Not_so_Much/

quotes from this article and solo's one:

"While Intel-based servers are generally less expensive than Unix-RISC-based servers, Gibbs said that the conversion is taking place because the performance gap between the two types of setups has largely been erased, and even reversed for certain functions.
"They (film studios) will pay what they have to pay to get the image quality," Gibbs said."

"While RenderMan does indeed run on both Linux and Mac OS X, Linux is the preferred platform according to one the authoris sources. [RenderMan Server is] "certainly used extensively on OS X workstations...very few people run RenderMan on OS X clusters," the source said.
"Technically, OS X is very well suited [for clustering] but it does not seem to have made much headway," the source added.
One reason cited for the Linux preference is that Xserves are much more expensive than white box Linux servers. However, another reason not cited in the article is that cluster operations often require subtle and technically difficult changes to the Mac OS X kernel. This reporter is has been exposed to situations in which changes required for better cluster operations at Apple took a back seat to consumer oriented concessions. On the other hand, experienced computer scientists can simply recompile the Linux kernel to suit their needs when necessary."

Please don't see me as a fanboy or hateboy (if you've read my post you can see i have a past with mac), but I don't have "deep pockets" or a big company budget behind me, so paying more to get half the performance with my budget is a "no-go".
Just to get you an idea: the last works i've done, i can't even open the final files in a today 1500euros MAC, besides being extremely slow in the parts that can open...but my 950euros PC (bought without screen to be fair) bough a year ago besides opening, it's 2,5-3,5 times faster...

So put yourself in my shoes: In my case is mac the best option for me?

Now I can say that I would change to mac without thinking much if I would get the performance proportional to what I paid for: More expensive -> more faster -> more/bigger files/works.

Brodie

to answer the question in the topic title:
"Do Mac's still have any solid graphical advantage over PC's?"

The answer is NO. And for people doing pretty heavy CG stuff they're actually worse (don't want to start a flame war so I'll explain)

The main problem here is drivers and performance.
First drivers: mac doesn't support nothing above opengl 2.3 (but they're getting upgrade to 3 in a short time, i think...), and has you know opengl had became famous because it used a lot for CG software. Now today you still see examples of this: Mari can't be released to mac, and autocad for mac is receive a lot of complaints because is simply too slow compared to windows version (but don't take this too serious... is autodesk afterall ).

Performance: plain simple it's the same...if the hardware is the same and the software is the same you'll notice no difference (this from personal experience). Now the problem is Companies and Freelancers in this business normally update/buy new hardware about 2 in 2 years (more or less of course) and from budget point of view when you ask yoursef "i need a computer that can run Cinema 4d (this because runs in pc/mac, but replace by any 3d package) photoshop, vray, after effects etc. and I'm going to spend 1500$ in each pc (that probably will be replace in 2 years) what will allow me to work, render, do faster and bigger? a i3 3.0 4Gg ram Geforce 310 mac or a i7 12Gg ram Geforce 470 pc?".

Think like this if mac was better why does Blur (the reference right now in cinematic for games) just use dell workstations? Hell, the irony of irony's; Steve jobs who was for a long time CEO and it's right know the biggest single shareholder at PIXAR, and, well, they don't even use iOS...

Now for me mac took a turn in the wrong direction in this market. I've worked professionally with both at the same time in brand new ones, but it's simply not the same years ago with the IBM Processors on it (anyone remembers? ) and better screens (for the ones who don't know the mac screens we're famous in digital work at the beginning because they normaly had a more colours and had 15% more gamma if i remember correctly). Now we've got the same processors that we have in pc but more expensive and if you need a good or professional screen you don't buy mac you'll probably buy Lacie or something...

A friend of mine, that right now it's partner in company that does multimedia works for tv, web, etc., says that he remember when mac was the only one that opened big files (well he had to left it overnight but it was open in the morning lolol) and the other PCs would simply die trying in the first minutes. He said that for heavy work a mac worksation was the beast backt then. Well, some years have passed and there's not a single Mac in that company, simply because he can't afford to pay more for less especially when he's always on a tight deadline.

Of course if mac hadn't took that turn, they were probably much bigger in CG but certainly not as big as right now in the mainstream (so yeah i understand they're move and i would probly did the same)

BTW i've done work for advertising agencies/architects/tvs etc. (i'm finishing one to deliver on monday right now) and some use mac but normally more just for vector graphical work (illustrator mainly and that's not even 64bits), the big stuff 3D illustrations and Photoshop illustrations are outsourced either to freelancers or CG companies, if they don't have the man and machine power to do it. But things can change as renting render farms get cheaper or when every software move to the cloud (hope not, but that's a different topic )

@unknownuser said:

Good but not overly remarkable...there are some masters hangin here who are very capable. I've seen CG recently from our local school (Georgian) that is just as provocative. A year ago I would have said...wow.
His works are just plain hard work...that I find remarkable.

You're kidding right?

Being very (but really very) good at modelling, textures, materials, animation, particles, lights, render, music/sound, and post-production in video and still images in archviz can be "just" hard work (even for this, you do realize there's a very small amount of people (and i'm being generous here..)that can say this in 3D). Knowing how and where to set the best cameras, choosing the perfect lights and combine everything together to set the right mood for a video/image (that should be the work of the director/producer/photography director) that can really make a CG art just like any other media.

but hey don't take it from me.
See the last end of year issue of 3d world and read the article of the round table with opinions of some the art and td directors of the biggest companies out there (they do a small reference to him if I'm not mistaken). But hey what do they now right?

Or maybe that's also why some (if not all) of the major references in CG had this front page in their websites and forums (from CGchannel, CGsociety to 3DTotal etc etc) the day after release, with a lot of comments and from others well known artists). But again what do they know right?

But please do post here that great reels made in that Georgian school so we can compare (and in the process also post the number of people involved and time taken)...
I bet its just an error no ones talking about it, because no school would like that publicity...

Alex Roman's work and not much more need to be said...

After "the third and the seventh" there´s not much more to be said (that will be a reference for several years in this area). He´s a one-man-show in CG, but what I really think it's amazing is his aesthetic sensibility for lights and cameras.

A true master in archviz.

(and i hate him for making me fell useless...lol)

@thomthom said:

Consider it's designed intention: populate the Google Earth layer with very low-poly boxes representing building seen from a distance.

LOL
What I laugh seeing that model.

Tom I don't think bocomofo was attacking "building maker", but the model. BM it's just a tool good or bad may depend on the guy using it.

For God's sake, low or high poly, that model it's badly made, period. Even by the 1988 16bits Sega Gensesis/Megadrive 3D standards.(did you saw how that textures were? I seriously doubt GE doesn't have higher standards...)

Well put tfdesign.
I'm curious to see the answer, but I'll bet he won't admit sk can be pretty good...

@tfdesign said:

FWIW, We even were told at university that we had to start doing proper orthographic drawings again, with a pencil and a ruler. I cheated and used SketchUp with all those fun styles in my finals. None of those buggers noticed the difference!

HaHaHa. I did almost the same thing. To this day there's still people that thing some of my "CAD" drawings, some "render" images and 3D models were done in autocad and max. . Has i said in my previous post, it doesn't really worth the trouble discussing with this kind of people...It's so much easier (and pain free) to lie and leave them in the ignorance...lol

Man, this bring back memories...lolol

This is like reading a mechanic's opinion about a mathematic algorithm appliance in quantum physics : useless.

When I was doing my architecture degree in the university, teachers/architects there were really against SK, the only valid software for them, for modeling architecture were AUTOCad and 3DS VIZ, not 3DS Max. Now for me anyone, that back then, considered Autocad a good 3d modeling software doesn't even worth discussing anything about 3D, and join that without not even knowing de differences between VIZ and MAX and you got a pretty good idea how dumb most architects can be in this matter.

And after all that speech, I then saw the models done by these architects here in MAX and Maya, and if most were horrible by my newbie standards back then (7-8 years ago) you can imagine what I think about their models now...

Now, I'm not saying they were bad teachers or architects (some were pretty good in fact), but they were good at architecture not other things, because most architects here are really cocky about their work and being an architect, and think that architecture is the superior art, above any other kind of design form... And God forbid they try to do more, in Photoshop, than add people to their images...

So, after seeing some of these guys 3D models, discussing why the regular printer couldn't print white (good luck replacing that white cartridge...), or being asked to turn around the photo of a shop's wall in Photoshop so that they could see what was behind it, I've pretty much given up about their opinion in CG matters that are not about usability...

Hi John

I don't really think the problem lies in COLLADA format being good or not, I honestly think it's a pretty good format, and I was one of the users, that really support that idea when it came out:

"There's a good side and a bad side in this. The good is that first Google is talking to us!! i still can't believe it but it seems true. And other good thing is a promised better collada export, and many may see these not worthing much but, believe me, this will be great in the future. An open format that anyone can use, that right now just needs a good vehicle to spread fast, and sketchup it's perfect for that."
(you can read the full post here: http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=21492&p=182910#p182910 )

The problem is can you really say COLLADA is a more standard (or mature and proven) exchange format that OBJ today? serious? I would be lying if i said yes.

And it's not really productive to use other software to convert to other file format so that it can open in the original software we wanted in the first place (or having to pay and update all the software we have at the same time because the new version now has collada and now it can "play" better with SK)

Now I believe that in the future (if all goes well) collada will be the perfect global 3d exchange format, it has everything to triumph and probably other formats won't be needed in the future...but what if I need it now? And if it's need it now you can imagine how much worst was in the past (God knows that several of us (I'm one) could really used it...)

just my 2 cents on this matter

Well going from Photoshop to GIMP can cause an heart attacks...
And also don't forget Photoshop, besides beeing more powerful, can work/do 8bits image, 16 bits image, and 32 bits image, and GIMP just 8 bits.

Now depends on what you want to do it. You've got Photoshop Elements 90$(Small image Retouching), Photoshop 700$(the "normal" stuff), Photoshop Extended 900$("normal"+3D). And for 500$ for CS2 it's too much money (don't even know if it's legal to sell it second hand, but to be honest I think it's a Crime that they to prohibit second hand sale too). Search Ebay for better prices or something, or if nothing else works, for the price difference CS5 is worth every penny just for puppet warp and Content Aware fill (this feels almost like cheating but, damn, will save you lots of time...lol).

Gimp can do pretty much too and if you won't work more than 8bits (jpgs) and can "survive" the UI (or have no background in other image editor softwares UI's), it's a pretty safe bet.

Paint.net it's pretty cool too with all the basic tools most needs with a regular interface (but it's much more limited that Photoshop or GIMP).

Everything depends of what you're going to do with them.

AHAHAHHAHAH
I wouldn't want to see that either...i scares me just imagining what was that guy thinking to give such a answer...

That video makes horror movies feel like baby cartoons...

Can't deny that I'm a big "basher" of the route sketchup is taking but that's just because i'm really a sketchup concept "lover" .

Saying that, I have to say that the new "solid tools" seem pretty solid and that Layout is looking more than usable. The problem is I don't have a use to layout (and before anything I'm an architect) and there's booltools as a plugin.

I just finished a big (at least for me) international illustration non-architectural work for a renown agency for a big multinational (I'll post here once is public and I get authorisation), completely modelled in Sketchup with render and post-production done elsewhere. I've used Sk7.1 free (8 was out but was to soon to risk it in a real work) and in that type of work you really see clearly the things that fail.

In the end it's not the performance issues (that if I didn't use other software wouldn't bug me, but won't comment on that now), it's the basic stuff like loop selects, texture mapping tools, basic tools for modeling/editing organic/freeform, bevels, stupid bugs that completely shut down a work pipeline (like when sk out of nowhere smooths or unsmooths everything after copy/paste, exports, windows resizes, ruining already built renders when I didn't notice), the extremely limited and bad 3D imports/exports (I think some people don't realize just how important this is for professional work), that really makes SK Professional feel very UNprofessional. This type of work would be completely impossible in the time given with SK without plugins for basic functions. I really miss the simple and clever innovations like pushpull and face me components were (easy to use and understand and with fewer clicks to work compared to others)

So to sum things up, for me (as you can already imagine) SK8 without a layout use, it's not really an update than can justify the price or the number 8.