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    • RE: OpenGL 2.1 vs. 3.1 in SU?

      I agree Gaieus. 2.1 would probably be the sweat spot (just us thinking, I'm no programmer) since everyone could use it (mac just supports 2.x and they're releasing by the end of the year 3.0 for OSX).

      But it really doesn't matter, since John Baccus already answered Brodie's question:

      It wouldn't help much just some parts...just like 64 bits wouldn't help much just some parts, and multicore wouldn't help much just some parts, and professional graphics cards wouldn't help much just some parts...

      And everything combined can help something? Maybe if we try to get the best from each, little by little, we can have something helping a lot in the end... Why Kronos Group keeps releasing new versions I don't understand: nor doesn't work faster, nor have features we can use... And the worst part seems that this is tight connected with the lack of new tools and innovation in the program (that's also why the shadow bug isn't solved...).

      The good news is that now they can concentrate more in updating the modeling/animation/texturing tools just like they did with Pushpull 2.0... what a sad tool's update that was... lolol

      Sorry for the comedy rant 😉

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
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      dacad
    • RE: OpenGL 2.1 vs. 3.1 in SU?

      @unknownuser said:

      OpenGl 1.5?
      That's not so bad...especially if we think it was released July 29 of...2003, and we are currently at version 4.1 so just 3-all-generations back...lol

      Can we even buy a card today that doesn't support at least 2.1? If we saw a little speed change in 7.1 just for a slighter higher version of it, would like to see how it would run if it was optimised to one of the last versions, without counting the new features it could bring like tesselation...(I know the official answer is going to be "3D for everyone (even cavemen)" and "we don't need that" bla bla bla).

      Well but it's good to now my gpu won't "sweat", money well spent on it...

      @gaieus said:

      Well, most "modern" integrated chipsets do not support 1.5 either. Even with the "so called" dedicated cards sometimes it is only written on the box but the drivers suck.

      But then on the other hand, maybe Google indeed should not be so cautious with more advanced technology.

      Hi Gaieus

      I can tell you that most firms I've seen that work on 3D,2D and film, all the computers don't have "integrated" graphics cards...That's one of the differences between Professional user and Casual/Hobby/Free users, that should be kept for the free version...a pity that just google doesn't realize that...
      And amazingly seeing new hardware with problems running much older versions, doesn't surprise me at all (what should we do? keep and old version of drivers missing new stuff to run something much older than the current/standard used? What if it just run in Win95?should i keep that too?)

      And, for me, advance technology it's CUDA, OpenCL, experimenting features, etc...OpenGL 2-3-4 are current technology for me...

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
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      dacad
    • RE: OpenGL 2.1 vs. 3.1 in SU?

      OpenGl 1.5?
      That's not so bad...especially if we think it was released July 29 of...2003, and we are currently at version 4.1 so just 3-all-generations back...lol

      Can we even buy a card today that doesn't support at least 2.1? If we saw a little speed change in 7.1 just for a slighter higher version of it, would like to see how it would run if it was optimised to one of the last versions, without counting the new features it could bring like tesselation...(I know the official answer is going to be "3D for everyone (even cavemen)" and "we don't need that" bla bla bla).

      Well but it's good to now my gpu won't "sweat", money well spent on it...

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
      D
      dacad
    • RE: Maybe stupid question..Why upgrade to Su8?

      Camara

      As others have said, if you're using the free version you don't lose nothing in upgrade specially if both can be run at the same time (7 and 8), if you use pro upgrade if you do/use a lot google earth related stuff or use a lot of layout (i think...i don't use layout).

      Brodie

      Don't get your hopes to high regarding v9...
      After reading sk blog about the best ideas to implement, the ones that really catch my intention were "Improve Texturing Tools" and "Improve Performance" (the other's are cool too but i see them as obvious or bugfixes), but then I read below regarding texture issues:
      "This was also a top-voted idea last year(...)The problem is, adding these features would also add significant complexity to the SketchUp UI" - don't really see a problem here...no one forces a user to use a feature (I have no use to GE stuff and their things are still in my SK...).
      And regarding Performance:
      "though it isn’t apparent that this particular technology will be one which has much impact on SketchUp’s performance" - I really hope not too, because that would mean that 64 bits would be an even bigger step. And after reading there's 3D software not being released to mac because it doesn't support OpenGL 3 or 4, just v2.X, I don't see new features or a redesign of the old sketchup core in the near future, at the expense of splitting the Sk user base...

      I guess it will be the same old story all over again

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
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      dacad
    • RE: Be or not to be (with a mac)?

      tfdesign

      there wasn't really a need to call me a "troll"... but you are right, maybe i exceed myself, but i still think your comparison is nonsense. I edit out my posts (was all lies anyway right) and just left that part. i'll leave this topic and try to avoid anything similar now.

      veneto

      Forget what i just said in this topic, was all bogus, lies and errors.
      If you are in a budget and work in 3d, sketchup, or whatever, the best thing to do is buy a mac, because in this area it's not about a specific computer components for this tasks it's about the right brand and OS for the job: apple. (in OSX you multiply everything by 4: a dual core 3.0 will run two times faster than quadcore/8threaded 3.0, an entry level ati is beter than high end nvidia, and 4Gg 1066 works as 16Gg 1600, and your imac will last for at least 10 years and allways faster than hardware at the that time). It's really the best buy for your money, no joking.

      posted in Hardware
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      dacad
    • RE: Be or not to be (with a mac)?

      ...

      And what in the world is that comparison with the "dream of owning a Porsche 911 after being in possession of a Vauxhall Cavalier"?!? It makes no sense...Does the porsche (mac i suspect...) runs slower, brakes worse, or fails to curve like your Opel (PC)?!? i'm failing to see how paying more for a "competion" machine compares to paying more to a machine with weaker specs...or are you comparing the dream of owning a mac with owning a porsche?lolol Do you even know anything about car design, aerodynamics or mechanic to make such a statment?

      ...

      posted in Hardware
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      dacad
    • RE: Be or not to be (with a mac)?

      ...

      posted in Hardware
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      dacad
    • RE: Be or not to be (with a mac)?

      ...

      posted in Hardware
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      dacad
    • RE: Be or not to be (with a mac)?

      ...

      posted in Hardware
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      dacad
    • RE: Sintel

      i was very impressed with Sintel (specially the second time i saw it, just to enjoy the movie and not dissecate errors...).
      In some moments the animation and hair could be better, some background models look "low res" in textures and polygons, and ilumination could also be pushed up a notch. Other than this small things everything looked great: the models, story, and specially the music.

      For a movie with a limited team (12 members at peak, but the normal was 5), limited professional experience, limited budget (just 400.000 euros), limited time (1 year), and all done with an incomplete version of a software (started with blender alpha1 and finishied in blender beta2), i'm surprise they didn't try to kill each other with the deadline reaching 😛.

      In the end they really have something they can be proud of, and a very good "showroom" of what blender can do.

      posted in Corner Bar
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      dacad
    • RE: What SketchUp could/should have been like...

      the conception video in one word: AMAZING

      posted in Extensions & Applications Discussions
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      dacad
    • RE: Assisted Suicide/Voluntary Euthanasia

      @mike lucey said:

      I cannot understand how a religion which I do not believe in should dictate by influencing governments how I may or may not end my life.

      Mike

      Best "right to the point" post so far. Couldn't agree more Mike.

      And if a person that's in Jainism (that allow assisted suidide) wants to do it, he shouldn't be allowed? Because of christianism (or any other religion) is more "strong", "valid, or "better" than Jainism? this is completly ridiculous... The same argument that's good to defend one side can't be used to defend the other?

      In matters like these facts and peoples choices and life should be the only things used to make a valid judgemnt. The minute religion or any "other superior" belief topic enters in scene this discussion stops making sense for me.

      You can use that to choose for you, but others have the same right to choose for themselves.

      posted in Corner Bar
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      dacad
    • RE: Google is Listening!

      bmike
      i was trying to make a point...you know...an analogy between and old hammer and a new one related to sketchup? you get that right?

      basicly trying to compare a (really) old hammer with a new one like the ones in the picture. You still use old ones like that in the picture too 😉?

      but sorry about my mistake in the hammer analogy


      old hammer that head falloff


      new hammer

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
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      dacad
    • RE: Google is Listening!

      After reading the last posts i'm feeling like the bad guy in here...

      Everyone's talking about what a great plataform for plugins Sketchup is, but a great plataform that can't display shadows properly, that don't have a something like a plugin manager, that has a API that doesn't seem to give enough acess to, for example, textures, or doesn't even support x64 or multicore technology, even if just to others benefict from? even after guys like Edwin Catmull saying that the future is in using parallel processing (and he's just the guy that was in the original team from Pixar(now president) and ILM and invented the catmull-clarck subdivision, but what does he know right?) or seeing others using this to enhance subdivision surface modeling? Sorry, but i still can't see this as a great platform...it's good, but not that good.

      But this is useless, arguing now won't change nothing because more than enough users are happy with this way of "evolving", and in 2 years when SK9 is realeased it still won't have multicore/x64/use the current technology like opencl/better texture or modeling tools, but it will probably let us pushpull more than one face or doing something like subdivision 1 level (plus a lot more for google earth) and most will be more than happy with that, just like in 6, 7 and now 8.

      I try to discussed this in a open and frank way with the "head of the SK team", with reviews and opinions and such, but he dodge all the "bullets", and gave us "pearls" like UV spherical beeing unnecessary or too complex or trying to sell COLLADA format as a more Standart format than obj (and i'm all in favor for collada but it's undeniable that obj it's widelly used), and still very few care, like everyone's afraid to say bad about the release. Before the end of this topic end, most probably the conclusion is that this was a great realease...

      And for me SK it's like an hammer, i just used to do what an hammer is supost to do, the problem is that it's a wood hammer, like my grand parents had, that's heavy, making me more tire, that start's to hurt in time with all the wood splits, and sometimes the heavy metal head falls off making me trying to figure out ways to put it back. Now in the XXI century i just wanted a new hammer for doing the exact same things, but in aluminium to be lighter, with rubber to grab more comfortably, and with a smaller a more precise head. Instead i got my old hammer back, but with ductape and painted in other colour...I think right now this is the best analogy tha can be done between sketchup and a hammer.

      I'm on old Sketchup user, but i think i'm no longer a user of the new Sketchup google wants, even if my goal is the same as ever and remember that SK was doing pretty well before google earth.

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
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      dacad
    • RE: Google is Listening!

      @jbacus said:

      You are being a bit disrespectful to me and my background, but my architectural education has gifted me with a very thick skin. I do think that you're confusing the specialized needs of archviz professionals with the generalized needs of all users of SketchUp. I talk to lots of heavy SketchUp users whose eyes would cross if I asked them about unwarping their UV's.

      As i said i wasn't trying to be disrespectfull, just honest. My skin is as thick as yours also (architect too), and my area of work, in the last years, have been more wide than just archviz, so i'm not just talking for the sake of talk...

      @jbacus said:

      Also, you're assuming that there is one true method for dealing with "3D meshs" that the SketchUp team is either too stubborn, distracted or incompetent to implement for you. That's a little disrespectful, too– and it is kind standing in the way of moving this conversation forward as well.

      I know there's not just one way to deal with 3D, right now if i'm not mistaken there's surface modeling, solid modeling, nurbs modeling and voxel sculpting (if you want you can add normal 3D sculpting too). And by the way, SK is still a surface modeler, even with "solid" tools, because calling it "solid" and add a volume calculator, don't turn the model to a solid, because if i section cut a SK "solid" it's still empty inside, just like a surface...
      And just by saying something like this it should show you i'm not so ignorant or stupid in some matters too, so please don't assume that either.

      @jbacus said:

      There are certainly things we can add to SketchUp that will improve its usefullness for archviz pros without losing sight of the general needs of all SketchUp users. Itemizing those things and discussing them in detail would move this conversation forward.

      So how, losing time doing better UV tools, wouldn't be good for the majority, or even all, that do 3D with sketchup, especially Pro users? For archviz, industrial design, characther modeling, game graphics, organic modeling? I don't think there's one area that didn't went trough a situation, on time or other, where better uv tools weren't need it...

      So to sum things, i still don't have an answer to my first post related to new software architecture, or an opinion about the sugestions i made to SK beeing wide enough and usefull for everybody ( http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30586&start=60#p268908 ), and i just discovered that spherical mapping it's a too wide and complex thing to most SK users, and so not need it.
      Better forget about unwarp uvs and new or updated modeling and animation tools...

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
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      dacad
    • RE: Google is Listening!

      First of all John (hope you don't mind i call you by the first name) thanks for your reply to my post. And i bet it's not easy for you to show up in here and defend Sketchup right now with all of us here. Agreeing or not with you, that deserves my respect.

      After saying this, i still don't know if all those guys are lying, if the SK engine is on par with others, and if there isn't one single item in it that would benefict from the new x64/multicore or even better GPU/OpenGL use...i thought my post was pretty clear and that would allow us to discuss and better understand that point (http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30586&start=60#p268908).

      In modeling/texturing terms, you'll have to forgive me but, i just realised this is getting a bit surreal for me... Reading all your posts now, my conclusion is, that you, Google guys, with 10 years experience on Sketchup and 3D, that know what's best for us and how we should work, think that getting textures on streetview or google Earth (that by the way IT COULD ALLREADY BE DONE one way or another) that gives us great quality images (beeing ironic) is better, than say, spherical mapping? fix the shadow bug? There's people out there "fighting" for "real time 3D texture painting with multiple layers" and we are asking, in the end of 2010, for things like a basic "unwarp UV", not even that, but spherical mapping? Is this for real? Am i the only one that thinks this is a bit surreal, like i'm in the twilight zone? in 10 years we still can't do something as basic as this, that could already be done even before SK existed? it's like buying car today and just having mirrors on one side, like in the 80'...

      Right now, instead of a guy that's suppost to understand the needs of someone working with 3D meshs, i feel like i'm talking to someone that never did 3D...sorry if this sound disrespectfull but i'm just beeing honest here.

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
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      dacad
    • RE: Google is Listening!

      TO JOHN BACUS:

      I really don't care if it's 64 bits or even 16 bits, multicore or half-core, GPU or a non-acelarated graphics card. As long as it works as the standard for their time, and SK is working almost as good as was 6 years ago (and that's not a compliment). I can't do much more than I could back then, I don't really think SK behaves differently between high cost professional hardware to a low cost one, there's no new modeling tools or ways worth mentioning (since follow me in 4 and intersect lines in 7), no mapping tools too (since texture projection in 4), and no new animation tools (i use SK since 3.1 and don't remember a change in this department...). The point is, for us users, it looks SK stopped in time...

      And I still feel differences working in 64 bits especially the bigger and more data the file has. (there's MAX and PSD files I can't even open in 32 bits because out of memory errors but i can in 64bits and seems to run smoother too. Why?). Now the question is would Sketchup benefit from 64 bits and multicore architecture, even if just for the plugin makers?

      So I thought it would be good to review again, with you and users of the forum, some articles from 2006 from 3d Software like Maya or 3DS Max, or XSI (the name now is Softimage, and it was the first to use 64 bits if i'm not mistaken)

      http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3768

      "64-bit operation isn’t significantly faster than 32-bit, in fact 64-bit applications are commonly somewhat slower since they have more system overhead, but nothing is as slow as an application that crashes when it runs out of memory. (...)In practice, I noticed almost no difference between the software running in 32- and 64-bit modes until I hammered it with a huge dynamics system containing several million meatball particles. **The file readily crashes Maya in 32-bit mode (forcing a hard reboot), while it rendered, albeit slowly, on the 64-bit version.**It was no real surprise, but it was a welcome relief from the days of living with miserly particle and polygon budgets just to get things to render.(...) There’s no doubt that 64 bits is where things are inevitably headed and now’s as good a time as any to switch.(...) Of immediate benefit, even to 32-bit users, is that Autodesk has also made improvements to Maya’s multi-threading and operational performance in numerous areas. Users of multiple-processor systems, including those with the new dual-core processors, in particular, will enjoy performance in many operations, such as subdivision surface modeling, and working with hair and cloth. The program overall feels much snappier and more responsive."

      http://www.cadalyst.com/design-visualization/first-look-review-autodesk-3ds-max-9-5954

      "In 3ds Max 9, I found core-level performance improvements in several areas that provide better overall performance and a cleaner workflow.For larger and/or more complex models, the 64-bit version speeds through tasks much faster because of better use of and access to more system memory."

      I can find more articles like these too and with different softwares, if you want, and i repeat: this is from 2006, i can be mistaken but i think that 4 years after, the 64 bits programming is much more refined and optimized now, especially for professional paid programmers. Now my question is: are this guys lying? Did all the professionals in the graphic industry just went nuts and blind for changing from 32 to 64 bits in software and hardware and saw differences? Or do you believe that your 32bits engine is as capable and fast as, for example Zbrush or modo (i choose these ones because the price is not much higher than SK, and in zbrush we get free upgrades forever...)and don't see the need for an update? Because i can choke SK with the less than half the polys the others can stand and still be workable...Isn't really nothing in the whole program that SK is, that would benefict from x64/multicore? one single item? Animation exporting, intersect operations, anything? or is the problem related to the old OpenGL engine SK has? And isn't OpenGL already multicore?

      Honestly, I'm really curious about what you have to say about this.

      About my opinion on SK8: it's a weak release, even weaker than 7, because 2 years have passed, we have exactly the same problems than before (even after giving ideas to you as you google ask us to do) and now we just got 1 new tool, and it does something that we could already do with a little more work using "intersect" or with a plugin called booltools (just for curiosity, are the solid tools a ruby plugin like DC components was in 7)...From this side it seems that your plan is releasing a new version every 2 years, with not much worth mentioning, gain some money and leave the heavy work and innovation for plugin makers (and all of a suddenly a cheap software get's more costly with all the paid plugins..)

      For ideas for sketchup i got a few:
      1- Multicore suport (why is layout multicore and sketchup singlecore?)
      2- 64 bits suport (see above why i think we need it)
      3- support more polys
      4- Build a robust platform for others to work, compatible with current and future technology (multicore, 64bits, gpu accelerated) so that plugin makers can also take advantage of this and build better and faster plugins (even if you don't).
      5- sketchup scenes that save the position of components and points (because points defines lines that define faces allowing some basic animation), or any form of animation more complex, and would be great if we could export the animation to other software's too.
      6- Put the same line tools that layout has and make the existing one work properly (like offset)
      7- make the import\export 3d model work and at least add obj import to the options
      8- update the uv mapping tool (sphereical, cilindrical, unwarp, etc) and materials (like one material with 2 layer of textures with different mapping each, and/or basic reflex material for example)
      9- Have the basic tools work as it should (offsets, follow me, from countors, shadows, 3d model formats import, and so on...) and do little updates on it ( like pushpulling more than one face at a time or working like jointpushpull, or do a scale not oriented with the axes but with a part of the mesh, or "add Detail" tool doing a basic smooth on meshs)
      10- more ways to work with organic and curved meshs, either by new tools or by updating the old ones with smart and inovating ideas with the way they perfomed on cubic and organic meshs, and keeping things with lesser bottons)
      11- give us a form to simulate basic lights other than the sun, and for the love of GOD fix the shadow bug ( how much time is this bug around without a workaround now? 6 years? isn't that too much time?)
      12- Separate Layout from SK, (right now there's users that just want SK and don't have a use for layout, but with the current situation, feels like they are paying for Layout evolution and not SK's one, and overpaying for 2 programs just wanting one. If layout is that good it will survive on their own, and it is on version 3 now, not beta and unknown anymore...and i don't even know what to say about sylebuilder...)
      13- a, basic and simple to use, physics engine would be nice, and there's so many open source (in case you don't know a physics is not just good for animation, but also modeling natural stuff and set up some type of scenes)
      14- rebuild, if you have to, the SK UI so that this toolbar chaos and workarounds ends
      15- and most important: LISTEN TO USER'S FEEDBACK (and if possible answer them)

      I tried to make a features list more wide as possible so that any user, independently of their use of SK, could benefit from them, and in a way that SK doesn't turn into a behemoth like 3DS Max but that can be a much better modeler and still fun and easy to use, just allowing in the process to do more and better stuff.

      And I would really like to hear a answer or opinion about this from you Google guys.

      Thanks for reading and sorry the long text.

      P.S: a special word for Coen: thanks for standing up for us 😉

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
      D
      dacad
    • RE: Google is Listening!

      jbacus i still would like to know what you think of my post
      http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30586&start=60#p268908

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
      D
      dacad
    • RE: SketchUP 8

      @thomthom said:

      @unknownuser said:

      new engine that suport more heavy scenes: NO

      7.1 came with an improved engine with better performance.

      Hi thomas

      "new" is diferent from "improved", and by "new" i mean a XXI century engine with multicore support for some stuff, 64 bits and at least with the shadow bug solved.

      The multicore would be great for some calculations like intersect or animation export (why wait 15 minutes exporting a movie when you can what a hour and half...) or the worst part, the plugins (the only thing that keeps the SK beeing use professionally), some could probably also take advantage of that multicore suport. The 64 bits for more ram, more polygons, more and bigger images, more stuff in the screen at the same time. The "piece of resistance" (forgive my frenchglish... 😛) is, if i remember correctly, layout having multicore suport for some stuff because it was need it...ironic isn't it?

      Who would tough that in 2010 a old Pentium4 3.4 with 2-4 Gg of ram ddr would be as good (or even faster) than my home desktop with an i7 OC 3.2 with 6Gg DDR3 1600mhz or a any regular graphic worksation...Maybe Ebay still hame some Pentiums to sell, or the "recomended hardware for SK8" is a netbook ... 😆

      @bmike said:

      @unknownuser said:

      (i don't know if i should laugh or cry...)

      and AMAZING!
      The post i did 2 years ago still aplies here (http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14207&start=165#p107667😞

      "This must be a joke...
      For the ones saying this was a good release:

      New modeling tools: NO
      new animation tools: NO
      new uv maping tools: NO
      new engine that suport more heavy scenes: NO
      new engine that do better images and shadows: NO
      new (even very basic) ways to simulate diferent light sources from the sun: NO"

      But to be fair, in modeling now we can do better bolean operations (too bad there's the script booltools...damn you Whaat 😛 ), in animation we now have a litle image preview (i don't even know what to say for this one...), and for maping we can now work even better with google earth (we all know how great quality and professional textures that gives us, unless we're doing it for google earth...is there even someone who does that for a living?).

      Soooo...2 years in development for this...lolol

      Ha Ha Ha! Even the shadow bug is here too! HA HA HA HA!

      This is just getting better and better 👍

      so, I guess you'll be spending your $$ on another program and moving on?

      Why not simply donwload the free SK 8, donwload doblecad XT for helping with the dwgs exports and such if needed, buy boltools for 20$, and in the process suport guys like Whaat? Who do you think it's more important to support right now? Plugin developers, that are keeping this (still) alive, or Google, that don't care or respect the user needs unless it's Google earth related? and before you respond count how many plugins you ever used...

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
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      dacad
    • RE: SketchUP 8

      (i don't know if i should laugh or cry...)

      and AMAZING!
      The post i did 2 years ago still aplies here (http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14207&start=165#p107667😞

      "This must be a joke...
      For the ones saying this was a good release:

      New modeling tools: NO
      new animation tools: NO
      new uv maping tools: NO
      new engine that suport more heavy scenes: NO
      new engine that do better images and shadows: NO
      new (even very basic) ways to simulate diferent light sources from the sun: NO"

      But to be fair, in modeling now we can do better bolean operations (too bad there's the script booltools...damn you Whaat 😛 ), in animation we now have a litle image preview (i don't even know what to say for this one...), and for maping we can now work even better with google earth (we all know how great quality and professional textures that gives us, unless we're doing it for google earth...is there even someone who does that for a living?).

      Soooo...2 years in development for this...lolol

      Ha Ha Ha! Even the shadow bug is here too! HA HA HA HA!

      This is just getting better and better 👍

      posted in SketchUp Discussions
      D
      dacad
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