well besides discussing diferent points of view. this post is beeing good to understand something: i'm a old sketchup user and sketchup goal has change. We can see this by what users like matteo and Creator 3D said about sketchup beeing something for GE and 3DW. And the sketchup guys confirm this when there's nothing in the sketchup site now that says sketchup is for archviz and concept modeling like before (when in versions 3.1, 4, 5...), but there's a lot of saying regarding GE and 3DW...

remus read between lines: when John Bacus say, when asked about multicore, that they look for performance tweaks all across the sketchup pipeline, he meant there's not much to optimize because the core it's at is best, so they did nothing. Other thing that you have to keep in mind is even if there's impossible to use multicore with the modeling rendering or whatever they wanna call it, why didn't use molticre for animation exports? running plgins functions? they simply didn't touch it...

I have no problem with this new objective in sketchup but it would be good to know earlier...right now, unless there a very speific need that can't be solve by the use or creation of plugins or have any use for layout 2 (or if it doesn't have any better software...), there's not much reason to use the paid version of sketchup.

One of the things that revolutionized the graphics in the gaming industry were the normal maps. With the Normal Maps the game developers were abre to use low poly models that really looked like a super high poly model. One of the best examples is the Halo 2 game fox xbox where the characteres had fewer polygons than in Halo 1 but looked that had much more polygons and much better overall. The bad thing when you model with normal maps in mind you first have to model a very high poly model to make the normal maps and then start lowering to a 1/10 the number of polygons and then aply the normal map of the high poly model into to the low poly, so it's a lot of work.

But the secret i think it's still having a good gaming engine like the cryengine2 or the unreal engine3.5, it's unbelivible how much they cost...

I also really liked the world in GTA 4 in xbox 360 but it's a pity that doesn't run as smoth on PC it's one of my favorites to-stress-out-game.

Imagine this:

You have to do a 3d work that it's simple if you have a good base model to start. You go online, and see a perfect 3d model for sale fully textured that is exactly what you need it, you buy it and import it in 3ds format just to see that all the textures are messed up and theres model parts missing or out of place. You lose a lot of time just putting exactly everything as it should and then model what you wanted in the first place using every trick you know for model workflow optimization in sketchup but losing time in the process because he are really incledibly slow. You also use some plug ins that take a while to load and you wait because he just using 50% of your CPU. When you finish sketchup says the the model should be fixed, you tell him to fix it and he completly screws the modeling...you undo this and try to do a quick 2d export with shadows from a specific point to show the client but the shadows are messed up...you just export it to render elsewhere the preview. You needed the triple time and work you were expecting to do this work...

How would you be and what would you think? is this aceptable?

Gaieus

If things worked as you said, we wouldn't been able to model more than 100 polygons or so... You know how i know that? Try to open a very high and heavy poly model, now try to rotate and zoom around it for a bit. It worked right? slower or faster but it work. Now do "selet all" and try again to rotate and zoom around the model. What hapened? it gets really really slower. Sketchup just processes has you said when there selected, if it were constantly processing the cpu usage would always be 100% (or 50-25% depending on the number of cores).

Anssi

The problem with 64 bits it's beeing a relative new thing and most of the stuff aren't beeing fully optimized for it but that affects every software house. I also seriosly doubt that sketchup, if optimized for 64 bits, would run slower on a 64 bits workstation with 8 to 16 Gb of ram with a quad core and nvidia quadro card than in the same machine but 32bits just using th 3.8 Gb of ram.

Anyway i think (in my ingnorant opinion because i'm no coder) the main problem right now in sketchup it's using a very old engine that has been tuned up a little bit every new release but it's core it's still the same so it's not up to date with current hardware. It probably needs a big code rewrite but if so it's something that should be done long time ago (even GE has a better sun sytem than sketshup...). Then we have the problem not taking advantage of new grafics cards. The lack of new tools is also a problem and when, if any, new tool come out it's like a ruby plugin (think sandbox and dynamic components...) and don't tell me we don't need more tools for sketchup because who here doesn't have plug ins?or can you imagine working in sketchup without any plugin? at least give us the ability to draw curves. And how is aceptable that a new software release has very old bugs?!?

We can't really model more or diferent with 7 than we could in 6, and there's a 2 year diference between them so everything has change a lot: the users are better modelers, have better machines and optimized workflows and none of this was taken in consideration (there's no new or optimized tools, no suport for current hardware or OS an no export features that at least work as they should).

I don't wanna sound like the bad guy telling that now it's the worst thing in the world, i want sketchup exactly as it always have been but we really need better optimization and horse power. And this interview shows that they're happy with sketchup as it (it could be better but it's a great release for them) showing, for me, that easy modeling is the same as simple models for them at least...

matteo

I couldn't agree more in keeping things easy and acessible in skethcup but keep in mind 2 things: the pro users aren't the same as the free users (not everyone models blocks for GE..), and before Google, Sketchup was made inicially for architects and anyone who wanted an easy 3d modeler to use combined with other softwares, right now the core aren't the architets or modelers or anyone who used sketchup when it was @Last, now the most important thing is google earth integration and everything related (just see the new browser in sk7, it's not as eficient as in the previous 6 but now has google all over it). Righ now, the pro version is dying.

remus

Like kwistenbiebel said, you're wrong. One of the main diferences between 32 bits and 64 bits operating systems is that 64 bits allows more than 3.8Gb of ram (even if you have 6 Gb ram the system will just see and use 3.8Gb if i'm not mistaken). In a basic and simple way, more memory means more things at the screen at the same time. Now imagine what skethcup could do if it were optimized to run in 64 bits...

Real time rendering in sketchup was great 6 years ago...Now before we can use the 2d output (i wouldn't really call it a rendering...)in skethcup we have to model what we want to show, but if i can't model it what will i have to show? i'm not saying that real time render and walktroughs in sketchup models should be over but this should be the part were the diference between sketchup free and pro should be seen. From the moment that the real time stops helping and starts delaying work i would turn it off and would just be turn on when all modeling and optimization was done (for real time walktroughs, 2d exports, rendering, etc). And please don't compare the images produced in real time with skethcup with the ones in crysis...that engine it's a real peace of art and is used, more than a year after, still as a 3d bechmark.

Hi guys. Did anyone read this interview in http://architosh.com/2008/12/google-talks-to-architosh-about-sketchup-pro-7/ ?
I´m a little confused with the things said in this interview...first 64bits and multicore it's not important in 3D making me wonder why the hell did max, maya, xsi and all alike have versions for this systems that can handle much bigger scenes...(and i don't even want to talk about using multicore for saving animations fasters...but they probably know that with the shadow bug it's nor worth it either )

Then the problem here it's the real time rendering that don't help with this multicore...this raises 2 questions in my head: 1- wouldnt be better to just kill the real time render and when we do export 2d graphic in sketchup it would just do a basic render process (let's be honest: the raw output of sketchup with no bumps, reflections and a basic sun light or any other material setting would take what to render? 5 seconds!?!) ? 2- the second question it raises is: aren't the "new" games engines real time and multicore?!? again the game develpers (just like any other 3d software producer) are wrong and google is right..

The last thing that made me angry it's when they say that "as we take advantage of more powerful GPUs people will just build bigger models and push up against the limits of the program again". I tought it was supost with any new version doing more that with a old version. what's the point in having a new version that does exact the same but with a new "outfit"?and it's my fault i try to model somthing that i know my PC can handle?if people don't push the limits how will skethcup evolve?

In conclusion, if i had never worked in 3D before and knew nothing about other softwares and hardwares this would be an interesting reading, but unfortunaly it just says what i was already expecting...

What do you guys think?

I think it's hard to compare anything with sketchup, but for me the ones that can come close to it are Caligari truespace, lusology modo, and silo

Caligari Truespace - it's free (microsoft bought it to compete to skethcup so that people could also do buildings for virtual earth), it can do much more than sketchup (high poly, animation, physics, rigging, internal render and a reaaly cool real time render like the ones used in game) but hsi interface it's really not user frindly and can't really compare with sketchup easy to use

Lusology Modo - it cost much more but this is really a professional program and was built from the ground up by some of the references and brains in the 3d world. Very advanced modeling tools and one of the most promissing render out there

Nevercenter Silo - this is the one that comes close t skethcup but and the core is the same of sketchup : easy 3d modeling and colaboration with other 3d packages, but more for high poly organic modeling. It's more used ofr high poly modeling, advance uv tools and a lot of import export formats, but lack doesn't work so good has skethcup alone wihtout the help of other softwares.

keep us posted about your work

David

I wanted the images to have a more dramatic look\mood and that's why i put the people and the sky in black and white to contrast with all the bright green around, didn't realizes that that could give a depressive tone to the picture...now i'm depressed...lol
Thanks for the 50 degres in field of view tip. Always learning

David

Hi scottpara

Thanks for the coment. I agree with you about the grass, i had to much problems with that grass mainly because d grass colour was diferent from the ground face colour, producing some odd results. Other problem i had was about the number off grass instances in keykethea because my PC couldn't handle the entire terrain with grass and this produced strange results in views that showed a lot of landscape. But i'm always learning and this was great to learn some new tricks in rendering and post producing in photoshop.

The distorted look i think it's a mix between some of the non-rectangular angles that the building does and the field of view i use. I normally use a field of view of 60 degrees because i think that's what the human eye does (don't remember where i read this so feel free to correct me if i'm worng). And with this field of view the perspective is normally more spectacupal than the ussually 35. What's the normal that everybody uses?

And forgive my ignorance but what does "gloomy feel" means? (again sorry for my rusty english...)

David

Chris Fullmer
Are you sure about that? A ruby like that would be a realease as great as Whaat's Subdivide&smoth was. But i think if it's possible to do it using just ruby i don't know if would work as fast and stable as it should because it would have to save the location in space of each point using skethcup scenes and that would use a lot of memory or something right?for high poly models at least. And the maping of each face could be a problem (a minor one) with a face changing its shape in the animation.

But i know ruby as much i know coking... and the only thing i can do in the kitchen it's juice... So it probably can be done (i hope so!any ruby master hearing me? )

But a plugin like these would even allow us animating transformations and other things...allrigh i'm gonna stop talking about these because i'm starting to drool...

David

Hi Giovani

Thanks for the coment.
But i think this project isn't still enough "sharp" for Zaha Hadid...

David

Hi everyone

This house is one of my final projects for my final year in architecture (the other was the bridge that disaperar with when the forum had a failure dome days ago). This house was supost to be like a mini hotel (don't know how to call it in english...sorry but if anyone knows how to translate "Pensão" or "Pousada" from protuguese it would be very helpfull) in a old farm located near the river that now would work for agro-turism (tourist see how the agriculture works). I located the house near the water deposit that already existed and star molding the general form to the water deposit and to that part of the landscape where it is (the terrain here have a small inclination).

Like in the bridge project, i wasn't aiming for a realistic look but rather for a more dramatic one, and i'm also posting two top sections, so you can understand the interior better, an the side sections that is a mix between a cad drawing a sketchup view (tell me what you thinks of them).

As allways any coments, critics and advices would be apreciated.
Thanks for watching

David

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!["chill out" zone](/uploads/imported_attachments/IsG1_conviviov2.jpg ""chill out" zone")

Really stinkie? Did you use the new version 2.1? For me stability it's a key issue and they said that the new 2.1 version it's very stable and with better perfomance but i'm on vista too...

Can you tell me your toughs of SILO? Good and Bad stuff and hows the workflow? i'm really thinking in giveing this software a try with the trial

Thanks

David

Hi tomsdesk

I think i found a great aplication for you: SILO (go to http://www.nevercenter.com)
And it has a "End of year Sale" right now so it's really the right time to test it. The professional version it's costing 129$ and you can download the trial that will work for 30 days. Check the video for architectural modeling in http://www.nevercenter.com/videos/

This is what they say in the site:
"Silo 2 is a focused 3D modeling application with the ability to effortlessly switch between organically sculpting high-polygon models and precisely controlling hard-edged surfaces. It can be used for anything from creating 3D characters for video games and movies to quickly exploring 3D architectural ideas"

Imports and exports a lot of 3d formats, it's seems easy and with a fully configurable interface, you can put custom lighs, lots of uv mapping options, suports high poly and disceplacemt and has very advanced modeling tools. It just don't suport animation or rendering (nor does sketshup in that matter...) but you can export the model as obj file and render in kerkythea that it's free, or export as 3ds and import back in sketchup, for example.
If it would have a little bit more options i think it could replace sketchup in the future (the blasphemy..), and with this price it's a real bargain. I'm also gonna test it when i have time free.

Hope it helps

David

couldn't agree more Simon B. I'm also still waiting for the (real) release of sketchup 7...

Oh! and i forgot: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, just put back the navigation back botom in the materials/texture browser!! Who the hell had the ideia to remove it in the first place?!? i don't know how you make the decisions and test your own software Google, but it seriously need a drastic change...

And if you could make dynamic components convert the measures from the imperial to the metric system (and viceversa) it would be nice (not everyone uses the imperial system...)

David

hi Blugarero

I like the decorative facades you've done to your building but i also think that it could be take one step further like how they influence the interior, structure and so on of the rest of the bulding instead of beeing just decorative.

For the images the weakest points are really the yellow doll you've put in the renders (it just don't relate to the building or any of the other images presentation) and the book shelves (for a modern looking building like yours using sheelves like that it doesn't seem to work).

By the way what render did you use?

nice work

David

kwistenbiebel

Use dynamic components!!!it will save you more time than high poly support... lol

Just joking. My wishlist it's prety simple and i don't ask nothing with inovation:

1- Multicore suport (why is layout multicore and sketchup singlecore?)
2- 64 bits suport
3- a new or modified engine that as the shadow bug fixed and uses the things said above to support high polys
4- sketchup scenes that save the position of components and points (because points defines lines that define faces alowing some basic animation)
5- Put the same line tools that layout has and make the existing one work properly (like offset)
6- make the import\export 3d model work and at least add obj import to the option

And that's it. I don't even ask for some more mapping tools because i don't want to ask for too much...

Oh and google guys if you could keep an eye on the nvidia CUDA technology (and SLI and CROSSfire) in the meantime it would be really nice...let's try to be one step ahead this time instead of two step back

David

Hi Clarencecat

About your question i can say there's no best plugins because it all depends of what you want to model. Anyway, for me, you should have a look at:

Subdivide and smoth (priceless for turning low poly models into high poly with more smother meshs and better details)

Joint push and pull (basicly it alows to do difirente types of extrudes and with alot of faces at same time)

Tools on surface (drawing any shape on non planar surfaces like terrains)

Bezier (spline for drawing curves)

SkethyFFD (amazing for editing any thype of shape)

Weld (converts any number of conected lines into a single polyline curve wich it's great either by saving a lot a time just having to select a single line instead of many or for modeling because if you move one point of the polyline curve every line conected will move proporcionally)

Indigo or Kerkythea (for doing renders, if you're just starting on this field start with indigo because it works inside sketchup and it's simpler to understand and when you get more advanced and need more options try kerkythea- both are free and great)

And there's a lot more but i think this is the ones i can't really survive without and can be used for general modeling. Now just see what you intend to model and do a quick search for finding the ones that help your needs (there's specifics architectural,design, render, physics and so on).

Hope it helps

David

Hi gf.greg

I'm finding your topic very interesting. It's good to see the detailed version of a workflow that combines so diferente softwares. Mine is much more simpler but also having the sketchup model has the core and from here i exported to kerkythea foir material edinting and render, for CAD for detailing the plans or for photoshop for ilustration type images or to combine the various results i get from the others softwares. If i have to do a quick presentation and design a quick layout (like for a A4 presentation book for example) i'll compile everything in powerpoint and print the final pictures with a virtual printer to a 300dpi jpg (avoid fonts and colours trouble when printing)

I would like to see more details of your workflow with modo if possible.

Tip: you can avoid vecterworks in your workflow if you get any virtual printer software (like leadtools, adobe acrobat pro, pdf creator) that way you just have to turn off perspective in sketchup, and press "print", select the virtual printer as your printer and putting the scale that you want in the printing options. It will save the "print" as any image format at any dpi resolution (200dpi up the lines will always come out perfect) and with the correct paper size (for me the limit at 300dpi it's A1 pape size but with lower dpiS it can get much bigger) you have configured the virtual printer. Then just put everything together in any presentaition software like powerpoint, phtosohop, painter, corel, layout2...

Hi radorn

I would like to say there is a perfect way to import 3d models to sketchup but, if we're talking about high-poly models, i would be lying...The best way that i found to import tha majority of 3d formats to sketchup is using Deep Exploration that can convert any 3D format to other 3D format including sketchup skp. But keep in mind that you will, most probably, lose most (if not all) textures coordinates and if it's a very high-poly model you may also see parts of the model beeing in the wrong place or simply missing, because the import 3d format feature in sketchup it's...hmm...how can i put this gently...very limited(?) at best...

So if you don't really need the textures and just want the 3d mesh, Deep Exploration is the way to go (either convert it to skp and just open or convert to 3ds and import him, but try the 2 ways because the results may vary depending of the models, and remember if we're talking about models with really small dimensions you better scale X100 because sketchup doesn't do well with very small faces either...)

David