Thanks, Anssi - that's correct. We get this a lot, where we want to make this as easy as possible for you, but if you don't have experience in large format printing, this can be confusing.

Follow this, and you'll know why:

1. I took a well-known test model, called "CornerBar.skp" (5.6 MB) and sent to LayOut on A3 paper, and made it full paper size. Doc size is about 6.8 MB

2. Now duplicate the page, so that my doc is 11 pages. Doc size is about 43.7 MB

Now, rename YourFile.layout to YourFile.zip and unzip it. Look at the "ref" directory in that unzipped section, and you'll see 11 png's. In my case, they're each 3.7 MB. These are the 2D snapshots of your 3D model. 11 x 3.7 = 40.7 MB.

These are zipped up, but since png's are compressed, there wont be that much change (see http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngintro.html for more on png). Why 11 different png's for 11 pages? Well, most users will manipulate each of these pages. If you weren't going to do that, you would have inserted a png image that you could have exported in SketchUp.

If you're done editing your 11 page document and what you want is 11 pages of exactly the same image (this is nonsense of course, because you'd likely have 11 different camera angles or scenes, so this is done ONLY as an exercise to make a point), do this:

1. Delete all pages and delete the model reference, and insert one of the png images in your unzipped ref directory. Now duplicate that page 11 times and save. Doc size is about 3.7 MB !!

I have an 11 page document that looks exactly the same, and is now 1/10th the size. HOWEVER, I have no flexibility in changing scenes or styles or camera angles or anything.

So, this fun little exercise shows that in exchange for fast easy edits, you pay for it in disk and memory size. These are engineering trade-offs we'll continue to optimize and try to communicate better to LayOut users. Keep the feedback and experiences coming, and thanks for using LayOut.

Barry

@unknownuser said:

What I would like is, to be able to make 'paper spaces' inside Sketchup - like one can do in AutoCad.

LayOut is not a competitor to AutoCAD. We have not communicated this well. LayOut "IS" paper space - it's for printing and presentation. SketchUp is still the drawing tool for your model. Except now you model in 3D, not 2D, and use LayOut for paper space in 2D.

@unknownuser said:

If only LO didn't make a copy of the SU model used for each and every page created. I know it makes sense when you have a number of different models in there, but not when you have the same model throughout.

LayOut does not make multiple copies. If you have multiple copies in File->Document Setup->References, then there is something wrong. It does take a snapshot (png) of your model for 2D space, so if you have large paper size, your document will grow in size, but NOT because of multiple skp copies.

Does that make sense, or does it create questions?

Barry

Ah - sorry, should have looked at the profile on the left: Vista 64. Is that correct?

As Jeff asked, are you Mac or PC, and if Mac, Leopard or Tiger?

Barry

Click File-> Document SetUp and select References. Do you have "Check references when loading this Doc" checked? In SketchUp, you can have modified but unsaved Scenes (right click on the Scene tab and save it, and save the document) or modified but unsaved Styles (you'll see the circular arrows indicating an unsaved style), and these are also items of confusion for some folks.

Barry

Hmmm... thought I responded but it didn't show up, so I'll try again (sorry if it's a duplicate):

I responded in Google Groups as well, but we will take a look. Please remain patient - having worked in the printing industry for um, longer than I'd like to admit, to have one printer and printer driver not working on Windows should not come as a shock to inhabitants of this planet. We will try to reproduce and fix this, but please be patient. It is simply impossible for us to look at every printer and every driver, but when we hear reports we will hunt them down and squash them like the bugs that they are. The Google Groups report involved a print server - does this one as well, or is it directly connected? Do you have a Mac in the office and have you tried printing with the Mac driver?

Please explain why you're importing into publisher?

Thanks for any additional information you can provide to help us solve this.

Barry

I've contacted Fred, but if anyone else notices that somehow the install deleted your license, please post it here - it shouldn't, and I'm trying to trace this. Thanks for your help.

Barry

No crows, but way too much Google food if you attend 3D Basecamp .

Barry

Sorry I didn't see this sooner - yes, known bug. In general, try to use the facilities within SketchUp and LayOut to work with models, because the clipboard simply wasn't built for 60 MB model files, and just because you can use it at times doesn't mean you should.

Barry

Hey, Modelhead - I'd really like to know your interactions as well with LayOut. There's no way a beta product is gong to top InDesign, but there are some nice things with 3D being displayed and printed in a 2D world that LayOut will clearly do better in this market segment. We're always working on improvements, so if there's some feedback you can provide, let's hear it. Thanks.

Barry

Apologies if this gets posted twice, but my previous post hasn't shown up in minutes...

My suggestion: Try LayOut first. It comes with SketchUp Pro, and is much easier to get started with. It also adds the capability to present your portfolio to a room full of people and still manipulate in 3D.

I don't know how you learn best, but either read LayOut's docs, watch LayOut videos at http://sketchup.google.com/gsu6vtvideos.html, or just start putting models into LayOut and work on a prototype, then ask questions if you get stuck. Of course, my opinion is biased because (a) I work for Google and (b) I've likely seen more really nice quality work in LayOut than people who haven't used LayOut much. Let us know how it works for you.

Barry

Where did you get this font? Do you have this in OpenType or TrueType? It may not be supported. We're working on supporting more, so keep checking back.

Barry

Thanks for trying this with 10.5.2. For now, this patch is the best solution I've seen.

Barry

Good points, and some of these answer the question "why is LayOut still called a beta".

I'll try to answer a few of these.

1. If it's for a template, I'd group things and lock the layer for your template.
2. Text box sizing is something we're working on. If text is clipped, in most (should be all, but it's not) cases a red arrow should show up indicating that all the text is not displayed. We're working on this.
3. What links are outdated? Make sure you turn on "Check references when loading this document" in Document Setup. You can also right click on a model and see if the contextual menu enables "update reference". Would you like some permanent indication when the model is out of date?
4. Always working on performance...
5. Hmmm... haven't seen this. Is this from the contextual menu (right click->Arrange->Send Back) or the Arrange menu? You have something selected and it doesn't work? An example would be helpful here.
6. Kill, or maybe "stop doing and undo... I was just kidding and I didn't really mean to do that and why are you taking so long to do this operation"? Escape (as you mentioned), Undo, or try to quit then don't are a few choices.
7. This is confusing to all of us, and we working at how to communicate Scenes, styles, styles that are modified but not update, etc... you're definitely not alone on this one. We'll keep trying.

Barry

Curious - did you get this resolved?

Barry

BTW - layout format is a zip, so it just seems "wrong" to zip a zip

Let's see if this works.Here it is

Hmmm... I tried to attach and nothing came through. Ah - layout extension not allowed. See Test1.layout at http://groups.google.com/group/sketchup-Pro-Groups/files and if anyone wants to copy that here, that's OK with me.

Barry

Here's an example you can look at (see attached file). I put a simple box model, and selected all the text and put it on it's own layer. In the first scene, the text is shown. In the second scene, I hid the text layer. Then I sent to LayOut. The first page in LayOut displays the text in the model. The second page in LayOut uses the second scene of the model, and now I added the text in LayOut. Toggle back and forth between page 1 and page 2, and you'll see how much better the text looks in LayOut.

Yes, yes, I know, text in LayOut still has a ways to go, but (a) we're working on it, and (b) it looks much better than text in SketchUp. I know this may be a pain if you have a lot of text and a huge model, but let me know if this a reasonable workaround / process flow for you.

Barry

We have some bugs filed against this. The workaround would likely be something like hiding the text from SketchUp and adding it in LayOut. I'll look at this more today to see if we can come up with something reasonable.

Barry