This is currently not working properly on Mac and hence not enabled. Sorry for this: we should make it work or remove the tease?

b

OK, here's and update (posted to sketchucation and Google Groups). I chose to work with two folks who were experiencing "SketchUp Leopard" crash / hang issues, and try to drill down what the issues were.

Case 1: Machine gets unusable using SketchUp 7. Symptom - it was determined that WindowServer (the UI-serving application for Macs) memory usage continues to grow. We took the same SketchUp Model and iMac model and couldn't reproduce the problem. We booted in Safe Mode (to eliminate non-essential kernel extensions) but this runs in software rendering mode. We then added the video driver to render OpenGL on the graphics card. No changes. We even called Apple support, and they were stumped. Best suggestion: take the machine (now out of AppleCare warranty) to the nearest Genius Bar. While SketchUp helps manifest the problem, it's a hardware + Mac OS X issue (/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/WindowServer for the curious).

Case 2: Machine crashes frequently while using SketchUp on Leopard. Looking at the crash stacks (/Library/Logs/CrashReporter), we narrowed this down to two likely culprits: a printer driver, and ruby plugins. For the printer issue, I did some googling on Epson printers. Two things made me nervous about this. First, it was a printer that's only sold in some countries so not likely a printer driver that has millions of users. Second, the printer driver used ESC/P (Epson Standard Code for Printers - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESC/P and specifically a raster to ESC/P driver). Older than PCL, IIRC (and that's 1984ish). Someone had reported that Epson support had suggested switching to Gutenprint (formerly Gimp-Print, at http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/). So far, this seems to have helped. For the ruby plugin issue, there's no easy way to troubleshoot 200+ ruby scripts that likely range from zero-to-limited software testing. A good rule of thumb for any program with plugins: when you run into trouble, try unloading some of these and keeping only the necessary ones and add in over time. My suggestion was to binary tree them, i.e. add 1/2, then 1/4, then 1/8 etc... to eliminate a potential crasher. We're thinking about ways for us to comprehensively test our ruby API and to help plugin writers test their code as well. Feedback welcome on this issue.

So why did I do this and what did we learn?

I understand that users of SketchUp are often professionals who often spend their entire day in front of the product, so crashes and hangs are VERY frustrating. I'd like to thank the two people who when beyond that frustration and helped us track down these issues in greater detail. Hopefully, this greater-than-typical level of detail will be helpful to others if you have to chase down issues like this.

LayOut uses RTF text, which you should be able to export to from Office. And you will get updates - I just created an RTF file with a table, inserted into LayOut, saved, closed, edited the RTF file, reopened my LayOut document, and got this panel:

b

You shouldn't be limited on scenes. Verify a couple of things:

1. In SketchUp, scenes are updated as mentioned earlier, and the model is saved.
2. In LayOut, you're using the model you think you are. Go to File->Document Setup and look at References. Make sure that the model's status is NOT "Embedded". If it is, relink to the model you want. Also make sure that it's not out of date (via Update).

Lastly, "Send to LayOut" should either bring up "Choose a Template" in LayOut, or launch a new tab (Windows) or separate Window (Mac) with your model if you have a default Template selected. It will insert the model on an Inside Page, not the Cover Page, as this is what most people want. If you want to insert a model on the Cover Page (or any other page of an already opened document), then use File->Insert.

Let us know if that helps.

b

pony = $500? Reminds me of a joke: know how to make a little money in horses? Answer: start with a LOT of money. By the way, the pony I offered is still safe in my corral munching on his oats... .

I'll take the liberty of posting here exactly what I said in

http://groups.google.com/group/Sketchup-Pro/browse_thread/thread/8f43b383f71ac697/e0a0ea3903d3f879

I've figured out (thanks to smart Googlers) how to load your video
driver in safe mode, and I can share if anyone is interested (running
in safe mode, but notice slowness in using SketchUp). Essentially, you mark your video
driver as essential for safe mode (see http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KEXTConcept/KEXTConceptLoading/loading_kexts.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20002369-97632-BABIAICJ)

To refresh: I wanted people to try this, mainly because it eliminates
the many variations from software installs. We've been running many
many machines without system crashes or hangs, so we need to figure
out what is unique about each of your situations. If your system
hangs, applications crash, or the system panics, please take a look at
the appropriate files in /Library/Logs/PanicReporter, HangReporter,
and CrashReporter and send them to us if they're SketchUp related with
notes about what you were doing when this happened. Try to recreate
it if you can (although I know that's painful and you really don't
want to see it happen again). We need to clean up this thread so it offers useful information, and not just "yes, I crashed one time, too, on a Mac". Having said that, I do appreciate your contributions to finding out the causes of these, because I know it's a pain in the...(related to pony).

Barry

Just another thought to Nick et al, when you have issues like these and the entire machine (not just SketchUp) goes out:

Read http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1564 and try it (booting in safe mode), to see if it changes anything. First one to report a machine crash in SketchUp in safe boot mode wins a... um... a pony.

b

On PC for LayOut, you'll find in your home directory/Application Data/Google/Google SketchUp 7/LayOut/UserInspectorLayOut.xml (same for 6, replace the 7 with 6 in the path above). On Mac on first launch of 7, 6's prefs should be read. As with all Mac prefs, you can access them in your home directory/Library/Preferences/ or from the command line via "defaults read com.google.sketchuppro7", etc...

b

Q: First, why do I get the "grey background" imported from SU on to the file and how to eliminate it.

A: Your model in SketchUp can have background, sky and ground color. Edit your style in SketchUp (or create a new scene with another style, etc...), and set these in the Styles Inspector (Edit tab, Background Settings) to get the color you want.

Q: 2nd, I cannot adjust the "bounding box" size by grabbing the sides, they do not highlight in red, all that I can do is resize it by pushing the arrows and corners. I cannot reduce the size of only a side or top or bottom. I can only rescale it or "compress" the side.

A: Highlight in red means you're in LayOut 1, right? In LayOut 2, it's a customizeable color, and blue by default. Can you double click on the model to edit, then click outside or escape to re-render? What about resize via scaling: hold down the shift key to lock the aspect ratio, or hold down command / alt key to scale about the center point... do those work? You should be able to do these things. Not sure what's happening here for you.

Q: 3rd. I am in a template, ask for a new page and it comes up blank, not the next page, properly numbered from the template...?
A: Which template? The Titleblock Templates typically have a cover page and an inside page. Take a look at the Pages panel when you create a new one. If you'd like more than one cover page, you can go to the cover page and click Page->Duplicate, and put it in the proper order of your document.

Hope that helps.

Barry

I should have been more clear: I believe Tim's problem was an intermittent hw problem.

Yours does not sound like that. Now, how to chase that down? Since it's on a range of machines at your company, I'm leaning towards (1) something unique in your models. Can you whittle it down to be reproduced consisitently. (2) something about your network / computer setup (are home directories local? Are you running Mac OS X Server), and maybe a discussion with your IT guy might help. Other ideas?

b

Here's a thought: did you happen to send the file to LayOut? If so, it'll be linked in LayOut, but have a copy of the .skp if it loses the link. If so, open the LayOut doc, right click on the model and open with SketchUp.

b

I would call AppleCare (1-800-APL-CARE), or proceed to Apple's Genius Bar with machine in tow at:

701 West Georgia Street
Vancouver, British Columbia V7Y 1G5
(778) 373-1800

I still feel that you have a funky machine. As I've mentioned before, I have one of these at home, and on ANY application, this thing would lock up and crash at random times. I took it back to my local Apple store twice when I thought I could reproduce it at the Genius Bar and failed, and on the third time they knew I was going to return it for good and buy a new one, so they just straight-up exchanged it. Zero problems since.

Kernel panics often indicate bad hw. If this were a specific SketchUp problem on this machine with this graphic card, we'd have some real numbers to reflect that.

Just an FYI: I just went through this with another LayOut person. The issue was that they used the Tape Measure tool to set up Construction Lines and Points in SketchUp, then they showed up HUGE in LayOut. Solution: you can control these in your style in SketchUp. Go to SketchUp, Windows->Style, select the Edit tab, and select the 5th / blue 3D square (modeling settings) and in the lower left, you'll notice the "Guides" checkbox. Uncheck this, update your styles and scenes, and refresh in LayOut, and these should go away.

I'm filing a bug on this, that Construction Lines & Points should not be display independent (I zoom out, and they stay the same size, i.e. they get huge), and what I mentioned above is the workaround until we fix this for LayOut. Thanks all for the feedback to us to help fix this.

b

OK, scouring the net, iMac's have had reports of overheating on gaming & OpenGL apps. I've replaced a personal one myself. At this point, I'd try 3 things:

1. Getting a menu bar temperature meter, maybe something like http://islayer.com/apps/istatmenus/
2. Unplug the second monitor for a day and see if you crash.
3. Stop playing World of Warcraft every coffee break . OK, maybe just 1 and 2; this one's important.

Barry

Nicoloco & Tim -

1. In Finder, type Command-Shift-g and type ~/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/ This directory contains all the crashes on your machine. You can send us a typical SketchUp crash.

Tim, yours messages point to WindowServer unable to create swap space. Is your hard drive nearly full, or are you running a lot of screens in Spaces? You posted that WindowServer threw errors - is WindowServer still running? If you remote'd in, do a "ps aux | grep Window" command is WindowServer there? You can also run "top", type "o" (to sort on) then "cpu" to sort on cpu usage. WindowServer will always be near the top. If it didn't crash, what's the memory usage (my machine, just typical usage, is 130 MB real memory, 500 MB virtual memory). If this is crashing or messed up, we can contact Apple and work with them to find out what's going on.

2. Please do or continue to send data (crash logs, system profiles, etc..) to

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

(sketchup.google.com)

I'm still of the belief that your situations are unique - we have lots of users in 10.5.6 with zero problems, so we'll try to determine what's going on for you.

b

Tim -

Those console msgs have been there for a couple of versions, and yes, it'd be nice if someone cleaned them up. Do you get the Apple crash log showing up? If you do, don't send to Apple - send it to us by copying the text in it and sending it to us in an e-mail so we can troubleshoot. I'll poke through this and other things and see if we know anything more. Thanks.

Barry

And if you've modified any of these, they'll be stored in

Your Home Directory Name/Library/Application Support/Google Sketchup 7/Layout/shortcuts.xml

b

On Mac, select the text and type command-shift-t, which brings up the Apple font panel. As you mouse over the tool bar, you'll see the tooltip for Text Color. Click on this, and change the color. On Mac, we use the system font and color panels, so this should be the same for TextEdit or any other Apple application as it is for LayOut.

Gai has the best response for now. We've heard from folks that they'd like this as a feature request as well, and we've filed that. The question is: would this be OK, cool, or REALLY cool?

Barry

Nope. But you can export to pdf, and present (on Mac, it's Command-Shift-F in Preview for full screen, Command-L in Acrobat, so I presume it'd be control-L on PC Acrobat). You wouldn't get the ability to interact with models like LayOut does.

Barry

Hi, all -

After some discussion, and me having tested on PC and Mac, our suggestion on Mac is going to be what happens on the PC by default, and that is to turn off hw acceleration (Preferences->OpenGL). With both fast feedback and hw acceleration on PC, things are pretty ugly as well. We've been in contact with Apple on this issue (after the original driver in Leopard causing a hang). If you look at http://developer.apple.com/graphicsimaging/opengl/capabilities/ this card only supports OpenGL 1.2, which is a concern if this a machine you're trying to make your living on. I'd like to thank inio for an INCREDIBLE job of filing a fix for this, but right now I can't convince enough people that this needs immediate fixing. Sorry, and thanks for the comments.

Barry