Sketchup is Inacurrate???
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I was wondering if the core problem with arches and the resulting shortcoming geometry is in fact what is keeping, or has kept, the developers from creating tools for curved surfaces?
Like e.g the in ability to provide any mapping for curved surfaces or the native lack of the push pull tool to perform an extrusion on a curved surface?@ TIG Out of an architectural standpoint, this is what I expect of how it needs to be.
The respective pieces of my arch need to be consistent and not perpendicular. Be it round or segmented same thing.
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Well, in theory we can create ourselves what SketchUp doesn't provide. Except some fundamental things such that we cannot introduce true curves - we cannot introduce new entity types. We can create abstractions. Like, in order to map curves surfaces and create ring and loop selections I wrote QuadFace Tools - which tries to build a toolkit that will let you create and manage non-planar quads. Similarly I'm developing BezierSurface, which allows you to create and manipulate (and UV map) quad-bezier-patches.
However, since there is no way to hook into the native tools to make them understand these new abstractions I'm doing, I need to write a complete set of tools for everything.
Mind you, aside from SketchUp's way of dealing with arcs, I find it's lack of the "quad" concept the most limiting. Everything becomes so much easier of surfaces are built up on units of quads. Mapping and traversing becomes logical and rational in terms of a computer - which doesn't have the insight to understand what the whole mesh really represent, only understanding the geometry on a the most naive level of vertices, edges and faces.
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Just a basic, try to draw 3 tangent circles with native tools and tell me how much time you spend.
Of course they must intersect.
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@desertraven said:
I was wondering if the core problem with arches and the resulting shortcoming geometry is in fact what is keeping, or has kept, the developers from creating tools for curved surfaces?
hm... you where perhaps talking about the developers of SketchUp instead of plugin developers?
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@gilles said:
Just a basic, try to draw 3 tangent circles with native tools and tell me how much time you spend.
Of course they must intersect.
haha
olav.. we need a better challenge .. i did that in 10 seconds using only the circle tool..
oops.. gilles posted that example..
%(#FFFFFF)[• using only the circle tool ---
• draw a 3 sided circle
• using each of the 3 vertices as center points, draw circles whose radii span to the midpoints of the triangle..] -
@thomthom said:
Well, in theory we can create ourselves what SketchUp doesn't provide. Except some fundamental things such that we cannot introduce true curves - we cannot introduce new entity types. We can create abstractions. Like, in order to map curves surfaces and create ring and loop selections I wrote QuadFace Tools - which tries to build a toolkit that will let you create and manage non-planar quads. Similarly I'm developing BezierSurface, which allows you to create and manipulate (and UV map) quad-bezier-patches.
However, since there is no way to hook into the native tools to make them understand these new abstractions I'm doing, I need to write a complete set of tools for everything.
Mind you, aside from SketchUp's way of dealing with arcs, I find it's lack of the "quad" concept the most limiting. Everything becomes so much easier of surfaces are built up on units of quads. Mapping and traversing becomes logical and rational in terms of a computer - which doesn't have the insight to understand what the whole mesh really represent, only understanding the geometry on a the most naive level of vertices, edges and faces.
I agree, there is alack of SU to create clean usable geometry. I used your quad tools and also some of TIG's tools to save the day.
I had a thought that I would like to convey to you guys, and that is SU has a tape measure tool, a protractor tool, to draw straight construction lines, BUT it does not have a compass tool.
Such a compass tool could help to snap on centers of any round geometry or it could help finding accurate intersections.Anyone who works in architecture and has ever measured a house "as is" knows that you have to make diagonal measurements to verify a floor-plans squareness or to measure a floor-plan accurately that is at any given angel.
Maybe that would be a do-able plug in? just a circular construction line consisting of a dotted line like the straight construction line with the maximum accuracy that SU can give? With a radius as parameter and that is able to intersect lines and construction lines?
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@thomthom said:
@desertraven said:
I was wondering if the core problem with arches and the resulting shortcoming geometry is in fact what is keeping, or has kept, the developers from creating tools for curved surfaces?
hm... you where perhaps talking about the developers of SketchUp instead of plugin developers?
Yes the SU developers. You guy's are doing a great job
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@gilles said:
Just a basic, try to draw 3 tangent circles with native tools and tell me how much time you spend.
Of course they must intersect.
10 sec?
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Indeed.
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@massimo said:
@gilles said:
Just a basic, try to draw 3 tangent circles with native tools and tell me how much time you spend.
Of course they must intersect.
10 sec?
If they are the same diameter, it's quite easy, draw a 3 sided polygon, make it a component, then draw a circle with e.g. 24 segments from each corner to the mid of each side of the polygon, voila!
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circles are not supposed to be equal and they must intersect.
well show me your files. -
@gilles said:
circles are not supposed to be equal and they must intersect.
well show me your files.oh.. i didn't get the part about unequal circles.. so all the results discussed so far look something like this
edit-- and we can't do 3 unequal circles in sketchup without using a plugin or a hack i'm not too fond of..
and even then, we'll only get true results in certain cases.. (and i might be saying some of this too soon without thinking it all the way through.. but feel free to prove me wrong
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in fact , what I was pointing is that you cannot draw accurate or precise with circle or arc tool, like bisector tangent etc... all things I learnt to draw by hand long time ago which is called geometry.
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@gilles said:
in fact , what I was pointing is that you cannot draw accurate or precise with circle or arc tool, like bisector tangent etc... all things I learnt to draw by hand long time ago which is called geometry.
right gilles.. i was just ribbing you on the last page even though i knew what you were getting..
that ability is sorely missed in SU
a few times i've seen the idea of construction circles being in sketchup which would be great to have as well. -
@gilles said:
in fact , what I was pointing is that you cannot draw accurate or precise with circle or arc tool, like bisector tangent etc... all things I learnt to draw by hand long time ago which is called geometry.
You can get somewhat close with the arch tool, since it shows a tangent continuation. But of course far from accurate not only because of the segmentation.
So I still wonder if someone could write a compass plug in for Sketchup? To create circular construction lines?
Or is that just a nice fantasy?
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@unknownuser said:
a few times i've seen the idea of construction circles being in sketchup which would be great to have as well.
That is the reason I am looking to Rhino, Bonzai and Moi.
At this point I really need to draw accurately.
It has been a long time we were asking for fix in sketchup with poor replies.
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@gilles said:
@unknownuser said:
a few times i've seen the idea of construction circles being in sketchup which would be great to have as well.
That is the reason I am looking to Rhino, Bonzai and Moi.
At this point I really need to draw accurately.
It has been a long time we were asking for fix in sketchup with poor replies.I would recommend Rhino; for precision and for architecture.
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The real question is why people like Tig, Thomthom, Fredo,and and and and ............... are able to create missing basic tools while Sketchup Team does not?
Aren't they paid for? -
I would recommend Moi; for precision and for SU spirite ergonomy!
And its true gem helper lines system!
And only pen graphic if you want! (mouse, space Pilot authorized
And the direct contact with the author!
And free direct plugins if reasonable time making!
And for the beautiful drawing itself on the screen work!
And best mesher Nurbs --> OBJ : price ? (2.5 / Rhino)
By Paq must be zoomed of course
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