Google is Listening!
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@jason_maranto said:
WrapUp
lol.
Seriously, though, I know it's not likely going to happen, but UV-ing in SU would be sweet.
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UV mapping in SU needs to be made simple, there are just too many UV apps out there that are scary for new users, so SU needs to keep it simple somehow.
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I'm all for that, but still: probably easier said than done.
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I agree, although I think it mainly a language thing -- these programs often use very technical terms that can be very off-putting when the underlying concept is really very simple.
For a decent UV unwrap when working with models you really only need:
- A knife tool to select the cutlines (these would just be regular edges)
- A select/group function to specify islands (Sketchups native groups are fine)
- A unwrap "3D skin" button
Sure it would be nice to have edgeloop and symmetry based selection for speed, but those aren't critical. The navigation, move, scale, and rotate tools could all work exactly as in Sketchup.
From there it's all 2D and optimization... and honestly that part should be pretty straight forward.
Best,
Jason. -
@jason_maranto said:
(...)the underlying concept is really very simple.
You'll do the tutorial series then. There, that's settled.
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Yep, that's the plan -- I'm actually doing videos right now showing how to do it in ZBrush from Sketchup (they have a very nice plugin called UV Master for this)... but I would love to be able tell people they can stay inside the Sketchup "world" to do this basic task. 
Best,
Jason. -
I used to be one of those continually calling for better UV mapping, but TBH I'm now perfectly happy working within SU just as it is, most of the time. And latterly I've started wrapping entire people...head, hair, clothing; right down to the knuckles on the hand and the seams on the jeans. There are two Rubies that changed all that; in UV Tools and UV Toolset.
For quick modifications within SU itself, I use Remember UVs. For anything more than that...or wrapping an organic shape from scratch I use Export UVs to Obj, then do the actual mapping with Ultimate Unwrap 3D, where you got all the functionality you need, including a wide range of off the shelf mapping modes plus the ability to create UV islands etc. The workflow for this is precisely the same as that called for in an earlier post by DacaD, involving a separate mapping module within SU itself. UU3D works the same as that module. You simply open the proxy obj, do the business, click Save, then switch back to SU and click Import UVs from Obj and the mesh is instantly updated.
Sure, an integrated mapper within SU itself might save you maybe 3 mouse clicks, but given the time it takes to map complex objects, the time difference is infinitesimal. In fact I'm thinking of writing a Ruby button to automatically open the proxy, so that UU3D will, in effect become a module of SU.
It's pretty cheap too.
There are plenty of easy things I'd like fixed (like putting edge and face count back into Entity Info. Given SU's intolerance of heavy geometry, this is pretty essential for quickly testing the most efficient method of construction, face-wise.) But UV mapping is now off my list.
Another bug is so old, I remember pointing it out to Jim Holman. If you're zoomed right in and have an edge highlighted, ready for moving, then attempt to move it...it will sometimes move in entirely the opposite direction to the mouse. It's not a scale/tolerance thing. I've had it happen to edges several inches long.
John, I know your aim is to have SU 'play nicely' with other apps rather than building the functionality into SU itself, so can we please have a decent obj importer..like Sycode's. Much of the mass-appeal market is based around the obj format...whether you prefer dae or not (I've stopped generating Collada flavour at FormFonts; no one ever downloaded it; nor have I had a single request for its reinstatement)...and it's a real pain having to convert everything prior to import. -
Allan, for a minute you've put a smile in my face when you said you were mapping characters in SK, but then i've read the rest os your post on how you're doing it. You teaser
.I don't have acess to UU3D so my mapping it's done in Max, and for me that's the problem. Sk limitations made me reuse Max more and more, so as soon as a mesh goes into Max it stays there, specially with the problem with importers you seem to know too. And staying out of SK just for mapping simple stuff for me it makes no sense. Plain and simple, for anyone that used SK intensivly before, Max sucks for modeling, from start to finish, with real measures and the snaps and navigation aren't as good and fluid as in Sk. But once you get better with, you stop fighting it and it stops bothering you (if i could model organic stuff with SK before there were plugins, i certainly can model with real measures in Max).
Just for the record, i don't want a Sk like Max! Max it's a behemonth and there's stuff there that either i don't have use for or simply don't know what it does. But that doesn't mean i think Sk it's perfect right now. The core use, for me at least, for Sk is modeling, mapping and animation/image (more for previz), and each of this departments need tweaks/fixes/basic tools to be in a stage that I can call mature, because i really don't need much more for most work, but each time i have to use other software to do basic stuff like mapping, or tweaking more organic shapes, or modeling something that will be faster or less probable to give me problems, or animating an object from point A to point B, etc, it won't get back to Sk simply because, now, i can do everything in the other software.
With the development team now beeing more focused in Google Earth and Layout, that was what started to push me to other softwares, so as i said in the begining i'm not sure how much i'm still the typical user for Sk, or a user that Sk wants.Best Regards
David
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I still can't figure out why all those who want SU to be like 3DSMax just use Blender! I mean Blender is also free!!
I love SketchUp how it is. Being able to use plugins is great, but it's also great that they are not cluttering up SU's interface. You'll be really hard pushed to find any other modeller as powerful as SU, that even a 6 year-old can use. (My 6 year-old!)
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@tfdesign said:
I still can't figure out why all those who want SU to be like 3DSMax just use Blender! I mean Blender is also free!!
I love SketchUp how it is. Being able to use plugins is great, but it's also great that they are not cluttering up SU's interface. You'll be really hard pushed to find any other modeller as powerful as SU, that even a 6 year-old can use. (My 6 year-old!)
Tfdesign please re-read my post (or see the parts in bold below).
P.S.: and i love Sk or i wouldn't give myself this work wrinting what, why and how to make it better.@unknownuser said:
Just for the record, i don't want a Sk like Max! Max it's a behemonth and there's stuff there that either i don't have use for or simply don't know what it does. But that doesn't mean i think Sk it's perfect right now. The core use, for me at least, for Sk is modeling, mapping and animation/image (more for previz), and each of this departments need tweaks/fixes/basic tools to be in a stage that I can call mature, because i really don't need much more for most work, but each time i have to use other software to do basic stuff like mapping, or tweaking more organic shapes, or modeling something that will be faster or less probable to give me problems, or animating an object from point A to point B, etc, it won't get back to Sk simply because, now, i can do everything in the other software.
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John
Thanks for explaining away just about everything.Yes, I probably could make use of Solidworks, but I do not draw stuff to make shop drawings of small stuff. I design conceptual stuff, like a huge cargo airlifter (320 ft wingspan), and a hangar to house it. Then there is 2.5million sq ft manufacturing facility to make it using a proprietary manufacturing process. My normal lower precision limit is .1 inch, and rarely gets to .001 only when I draw some smaller components in separate drawings.
Precision is not the problem, and scaling up is not the solution for the GAP problem. I get most of the gaps in triangle formation on flat surfaces. I get the gaps because SU snaps my lines just a tad off where I want them when there are more than 1 endpoint very close by and I cannot toggle OFF the snap. Then the triangular face fails to form. V6 said there was a gap but not where, and V8 says nothing about why it won't form. I'm not asking you to fix the gap, just indicate where it is. I can zoom in to fix it myself.
You totally ignored that part. Yeah, I suppose I could set precision to 1 inch, but then stuff won't fit. As for scaling up, SU also has problems with say a 3,200 ft object as well.
Hyper Pan/zoom happens at any scale, precision or distance from the object. I use last view a lot to try and get back, but usually the last view before the hyper-pan is exactly over empty space which caused the problem.
As for the pencil or the pointer tool on startup causing your developers such great consternation, did you ever think of giving us a startup default CHOICE???? There is a whole section on preferences built-in to SU; add that as an item.
So a plugin blows away the toolbar positions. I can accept that. But then what is the function of "Save toolbar locations" and "Restore toolbar locations" in V8? They simply do not work.
Yeah, SU supports Decimal Inch as I always input dimensions to the VCB using feet, inch and decimal inch. SU just does NOT display Feet AND inch AND Decimal-inch. It displays Feet Inch and Fractions of an inch, and others as well, none of which I want to use.
As for complex mice, I gave you the easy solution, button output remap. Give the (any) mouse more buttons (say 10 or 12) and let me define what button I press to do what shortcut I want. That way it matters not to SU what brand of mouse and how many buttons it has.
As for KB control keys, and if I am running out, the answer is a qualified yes. My left hand hovers over the left side and there is only a small number of keys I can easily and quickly hit with thumb PLUS forefinger on the left side. More control keys will help.
As for purging "unused" materials, that is a non-starter if you think about it. The purging only is enabled in the material list, not the Entity Info panel. Then, if I have 2 (or more) objects in my model with say, black, but one was imported from some other SU model, its' black is now a separate and different black. You cannot purge a material in use. I can't even sort the list to put the 2 blacks side by each.
I guess you are right, I have to let the SU community of Ruby Wizards solve the problems SU developers can't seem to grasp, let alone fix.
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@unknownuser said:
So a plugin blows away the toolbar positions. I can accept that. But then what is the function of "Save toolbar locations" and "Restore toolbar locations" in V8? They simply do not work.
It has always worked for me when I do need to use it.
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@jgb said:
Thanks for explaining away just about everything.
Not sure what you're hoping to achieve here, but I am trying to answer your questions. I think I'm going to stop for a bit and show your post to some other folks to see if they can help me understand what you're trying to do. It isn't at all clear to me what work you're doing with SketchUp.
john
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@jgb said:
Yeah, SU supports Decimal Inch as I always input dimensions to the VCB using feet, inch and decimal inch. SU just does NOT display Feet AND inch AND Decimal-inch. It displays Feet Inch and Fractions of an inch, and others as well, none of which I want to use.
do any apps actually support this and/or does anyone/industry use that? if i understand correctly, you want to see 27' - 3 5/8" written as 27' 3.625"?
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In aviation you'd use/see these type of dimensions in detailed/fabrication drawings. Not the feet part though. Just something like - 101.385"
Or in machine shops for close tolerance manufacture/rework.
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Right, I see decimal inches and decimal feet used often enough. Just can't recall seeing them in this particular requested format.
(not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm just wondering if there's any real world use) -
Never seen it either. It seems jgb uses it for concept design of aircraft and hangars.
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Re: Alan Fraser
Yep the(Beta) plugin is about as close to an inside Sketchup workflow as you are going to get -- and it makes my point for me that Sketchup itself would need hardly any changes to make this work. However the issue is this is a Pro version software I am talking about -- We should have access to a Sketchup-based UV workspace that allows for basic mapping types and unwrapping in a Pro software.
As I said I can use ZBrush for this very well, but as was pointed out once I go to ZBrush I'm not going back into Sketchup because it's just too much of a painful workflow. If there is a missing feature that drives me away from Sketchup and into the arms of another app (like Modo) it will be this UV issue -- which is a complete dealbreaker for my models. Here's an example: http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=333&t=34508 -- right now I have to take this model into ZBrush for the sole reason of applying textures/decals.
Bottom line, this limits the usefulness of Sketchup to large percentage of users... many of whom have paid to be "Pro" users. I really fail to see how it is logical to expect a user who simply wants to model a object in Sketchup and render a professional looking presentation in Layout purchase a 3rd party UV mapper. This is a basic function and if they are selling texturing/rendering capability then support for getting textures properly mapped to the geometry should just be part of the package.
BTW there is a very fast compiled free OBJ importer here: http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=35936 -- since you don't mind using 3rd party apps/plugins for basic functions this should answer your feature request perfectly...
Yes, I'm very happy to have generous coders giving us free tools, but it does tend to highlight how easy it could be for the Sketchup dev team to add them if they chose to.
Best,
Jason. -
Exciting discussion going on here. Almost a shame I'm on vacation - hard to follow.
Anyways - John - here's my thoughts:
I'd be very good to see some plugin manager - repository for SketchUp. Being able to install plugins is really what has made me stay with SketchUp and not any other modeller.
When I hear other people claim that SketchUp can only do very simple basic things they seem to have completely missed out on all the powerful plugins there is available. (Plus that they seem to be fooled by SU's simple interface which makes them think the application is also too simple.)
But I've always felt that plugins really haven't been marketed well enough for SketchUp. The selection of tools that let you tailor SketchUp to fit your own need is really great - and powerful. And with a simple scripting language such as Ruby it makes the entry level really low for making plugins. (as oppose to other apps where you need to compile plugins etc.)
Having written quite a few plugins for a few years now, the most common questions I get is how to install and uninstall plugins - or update. It's management. I've thought often of making a management system - but it's something that quickly becomes complicated - and I don't feel I have the time.
I think that a plugin manager within SketchUp, where people can browse repositories, quickly installing plugins (and dependencies) would be a great boost for SketchUp.
It's allow people to easier discover more power to SketchUp, and attract more developers to make more plugins. That in turn will reinforce the community around SketchUp to keep enhancing it.
It's a feature which I believe will give a lot back to you lot - as it'll make SketchUp much more attractive to developers.In addition there's the missing API features you asked for:
We recently got methods for renaming materials - and erasing material (though this had it's flaws where one has to be careful to manually remove the material from the model first.)
But there is still lots more to be desired:
Sections cuts - very frequently requested feature to manipulate around here. So is dimensions.
We'd also like to see methods to remove layers and set,get layer materials. All this to be able to develop better tools to automate tasks tailored to our needs.
And the WebDialog class really could do with cleanups to make it behave consistently between platforms. Many developers have expressed desire to make UI's for their plugins, but found learning HTML, CSS and JS a bit overwhelming - and on top of that finding a number of issues in communicating with webdialogs. For many of the issues in regards to webdialogs, check out this thread: http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=23445When it comes to UV mapping - it'd be good to see native UI for UV mapping, but also being able to get and set the Projected flag for faces. It's completely missing and makes developing UV tools harder.
As you can see - I focus mainly on the Ruby API end - and hope for improvements there. I believe that the community around SketchUp can fulfill many of the userbase's requests if we get the appropriate API access.
There are much more I can talk about in regard to this topic and I'll gladly get back to that if you want to make a further dialogue.
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@unknownuser said:
do any apps actually support this and/or does anyone/industry use that? if i understand correctly, you want to see 27' - 3 5/8" written as 27' 3.625"?
I don't know about other apps, I only use SU. I used to use ACAD, but so long ago, I don't recall what formats it used. I "grew up" in the aerospace industry, first as a field mechanic, then manufacturing inspection, then into aerospace project management. Then onto other fields, including programming, s/w development and s/w project management. That's over a 40+ year career in 3 separate fields.
Airplane parts were always measured in inch and decimal inch, even the big parts. (Now they are metric, but I don't think in metric, even in Canada) Very long parts such as wing spars were measured in feet - inch - dec.inch. So yes, I want to see 27 feet 3 5/8 inches as 27' 3.625. That is the way I type it into the VCB, but it always displays in Entity Info or Dimensions in the fractions format. And in most cases it shows as ~1/32 rather than 0.030 as I defined the dimension in the VCB.
In my mind it is not so big a deal for SU to show that format, so I cannot see why John and others before him are resisting so much, unless the NIH is a factor. (Not Invented Here)John,
You said "Not sure what you're hoping to achieve here, but I am trying to answer your questions. I think I'm going to stop for a bit and show your post to some other folks to see if they can help me understand what you're trying to do. It isn't at all clear to me what work you're doing with SketchUp."That is EXACTLY what I'm trying to achieve here. Instead of trying to explain away why some idea isn't being considered, without thinking it through, please get the "grunts" to mull it over and say that it is feasible, or, is not for a specific reason. You are not dealing with the general unwashed in these forums. In my experience, I've had managers attempt to "explain" why something could not be done, when, with my technical background I knew different. And any of the folks who have at least a few months working with SU can say the same.
The best answers I ever heard were "I'm not sure, but I will get back to you" and this is what you finally said. I will await your report.As for what I'm doing with SU? Well I have had ideas in many fields formulate in my head over the years. Now in retirement I have the time to put them into 3D. I have a mountain of pencil on paper sketches of many things, based on my past experiences. I used ACAD for years but only in 2D, so I could never realize some ideas fully.
SU changed all that in incredible time and ease of use. I never touched ACAD from a week after I discovered SU-V6. As a result, I now have a patent in the mill, and 4 more in preparation. And because of those proprietary models, I cannot show them to the SU community.
However I have posted (a few years ago) an early rendition of my big freighter on the previous (now defunct) forum, and if anybody wants, I'll repost it here again.
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