As the title says. I have discovered this when testing 'Front Face 1.1' Plugin.
It can be valid from a programmer point of view, but isn't right from pure logic point of view.
There could be an option for model.raytest ray option.
The option would be by default true - ray would behave like a ray of light. False - would mean that ray will stop on a hidden geometry.
I have attached a test scene. It can be tested with the FrontFace plugin 1.1 as it uses rays.
Tomasz
@unknownuser said:
I intend to improve tool's efficiency by reversing all back faces in the whole surface that a face belongs to - subject to feedback from users
Thanks for a test file 
I have found that the plugin reverses Front Faces as well in nested components& groups.
I have forgotten about transformation of an instance.. 
Of course the process is fully reversible, but just to inform you there is a bug. It looks I will have to use ray-casting as well.
EDIT: - Done. Plugin updated - v.1.1.
Tomasz
This tool and probably any other face reversing tool is not able to reverse correctly projected textures, as it would require correct readout of the face UVs and reapplying them to the opposite side of a face.
Please find an example attached. When using the tool on the back faces you will notice that texture on the former front face have wrong - default UVs. I will post soon a new version that copies UVs between Front and Back material. I will need your help as I was not able to solve it on my own.
Can we all try to solve this UVs issue? I am sure there are Ruby programmers who know exactly how to read correct UVs of a nested face.
Tomasz
Hi all,
I have written a small tool for reversing back faces only.
It is a kind of hybrid of Didier's ray casting solution and Todd's old scrtool.
[flash=600,338:3vv3nugw]http://www.youtube.com/v/EcGgI_AoSG8[/flash:3vv3nugw]
It works like a paintbrush - right cick toggles reverse mode - just hover above back faces and they will be reversed.
Front faces will keep facing front, so do not worry you can move a cursor above whole
model without hesitation. No additional click required.
If you want back material to be turned into the default SU material, toggle special mode using CTRL key.
Installation - unpack both rb and FrontFace_files folder into Plugins folder. Restart SU
Tool works best in 'Monochrome display mode' because it will let you easily recognise which faces still need to be reversed. Make sure your model refreshes fast - the faster screen refresh the faster tool works.
When reversing faces in large model - it can be faster to do it by layers or by groups.
I intend to improve tool's efficiency by reversing all back faces in the whole surface that a face belongs to - subject to feedback from users 
I invite you to a while of reflection about a role of LOVE in our lives while using this tool, because your brain will be quite idle during the process I kindly suggest you to spend saved time with ones that you love! You can trade with your boss - whole model reversed in half an hour - afternoon off the work in return
EDIT:
version 1.2 (7th December 2009) - icons added, CTRL toggles a mode which replaces back material with the default, FrontFace is no longer afraid of hidden layers or faces, cuts through them like through a butter
Cheers
Tomasz
Alan, your son and others - I've got something to heat up your minds and probably hearts as well.
Now It is my turn to play with quotations. I thought it would be better to put it into 'Love- a path to follow' thread, but I realized 'Religion anyone?' is much more appropriate, as we all are looking at/for a religion(s) from a scientific point of view, rather then spiritual. In my view, it is not wise to separate those approaches as each of them brings in something valuable. Therefore you will find below quotations from both sources.
Just as introduction - first quote:
@unknownuser said:
"Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to contemplation of the truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth in a Word, to know Himself so that, by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves."
It won't be wrong if we say that there is just one reality in our World. Therefore reason and faith are trying to describe same thing, but from opposite directions. If science will get deep enough, where it will find that there are things beyond its possibilities and when the faith will not reject the founding of former,but will try to incorporate them, there is a chance they will meet. The faith must be therefore right in its description of the reality otherwise it will never meet the reason.
So let's start.
@unknownuser said:
"The clusters show a small but measurable velocity that is independent of the universe's expansion and does not change as distances increase," says lead researcher Alexander Kashlinsky at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. "We never expected to find anything like this."
Kashlinsky calls this collective motion a "dark flow" in the vein of more familiar cosmological mysteries: dark energy and dark matter. "The distribution of matter in the observed universe cannot account for this motion," he says.
Lets consider that this article says true and scientists are not wrong what they write. Dark matter is a 'temporary name', as far as I know, because scientists are not really sure what they are dealing with.
@unknownuser said:
Zero point energy - in quantum field theory, it is a synonym for the vacuum energy, an amount of energy associated with the vacuum of empty space. In cosmology, the vacuum energy is taken to be the origin of the cosmological constant which is thought by many to produce dark energy. Experimentally, the zero-point energy of the vacuum leads directly to the Casimir effect, and is directly observable in nano-scale devices.
Because zero point energy is the lowest possible energy a system can have, this energy cannot be removed from the system. A related term is zero-point field, which is the lowest energy state of a field; i.e. its ground state, which is non-zero.
This point may bring a lot of discussion, but what I want to emphasize that science is observing forces that were not expected in the nano-scales - when probability starts to rule, not a 'precise science'.
Alan has written about a 'horizon of events' we will have never insight beyond.
(btw. I enjoyed Stephen Hawking's 'A Brief History of Time' very much)
So both in macro and nano scales the reason is loosing it confidence.
Let's have a look at what faith has to say in macro and micro scales.
@unknownuser said:
I am that I am
It is a common English translation of the response God used in the Bible when Moses asked for his name (Exodus 3:14).
A finding from a point 1. mentions a 'measurable velocity that is independent of the universe's expansion'. I've got a theory, good as any other, that this constant and independent of the universe expansion is Love. Of course this theory doesn't have to be true. The point is that there is a good chance that at those levels science and faith can meet. Can start a dialogue.
@unknownuser said:
"In him we live, and move, and have our being.
Paul's experience of Love gives him confidence in declaring this truth to residents of Athens. It means, in his opinion, we are submerged in Love. The love is surrounding us, filling us and letting us live. Is it not close to points 1 & 2 which are stating an existence of an energy from unknown source? Of course, it doesn't have to be Love, it doesn't have to be our Father. It can be other kind of energy... but.. aren't those statements from opposite 'side of a coin' not correlated??
@unknownuser said:
The blue planet was getting smaller and smaller and surrounding was getting brighter and brighter. I have had a gradually increasing feeling that all my problems, all problems of the Earth are not that important and not that scary. I have started to worry about my parents and all loved one I had left on the planet, but that feeling has vanished as well. Its place has been taken by growing peace and I realized I hear an choir somewhere singing just one waving sound and noticed that the light is very bright then ... it has hit me. The feeling of LOVE AND PEACE I cannot describe in words. It was so immense, so powerful that I haven't even thought about a fear.
My own experience of Love that fills the entire Universe with itself. 'The field' that is bringing everything to right place - gives a Peace. If my faith and faith of all Christians is true it will meat the reason one day.
Take care
Tomasz
You lads, are exploring such interesting aspects of science.
Everything has very 'reasonable' explanation.
ONE FORCE UNIFICATION UNIVERSE THEORY
Just to add more spice to the mixture. 
[flash=425,344:1chtisqb]http://www.youtube.com/v/RrRKVG5F2DY&hl=en&fs=1[/flash:1chtisqb]
Despite the video, I don't think scientists are all ... weird.. neither Christian preachers
I wouldn't dare to think that all efforts to find 'The Unified Theory' are useless, even the one displayed above.
Please do not spend to much time on watching this video
My point is, that even if the Christ was a Jew, his vision of God has been completely rejected by those who had governed a Jewish vision of the World. I am afraid that Christianity over two thousand years has been overgrown by so many traditional rituals and additions, that makes original, very simple and clear message of Love, unrecognizable in our times.
By getting to the root of Christianity, by getting closer to understanding our Father, we can not only find a way to unity of a Christians, but who knows, maybe even to an acceptance of the 'sect' by Jews.
@solo said:
Now how does this love you mention relate to your religion?
I am a Christian - it means I believe in Christ, who, in turn, claimed to be a Son of God.
This is the faith I have grown in. This is a faith I have questioned in my youth, finally to recognize it as my own, not only as passed on message. The essence of his teaching was Love. In fact, as a scripture says, he has called his father 'a God' just once. On a cross. For him the love and his father was same. My personal experience of love gives me great confidence that I have a lot to learn from Him. This is in general how the love relates to my religion. Why do you ask?
p.s. Plot have you been really fired?!! It is sad.
Plot, your distinction of 'being in love' and 'love' makes sense. This is how the love evolves.
We have to be aware that our love is a poor reflection of the true Love. The more open our heart is the better it reflects.
In my view the Love is not a force of a nature nor it needs a balance.
Love is a medium that allows everything to live, grow and exist. Love has given life to all Creation - spirits, people and animals. We all have free, undisturbed will and a lesson to learn.
We have to learn that there can be a hatred and all evil if you deny to love. This is a balance of goodness in our World. Even spirits has to learn it. The father of Lie has to learn it as well.
What 'Lie' I am witting about? "The Father doesn't love you. He has something to hide from you. He doesn't want you to be equal to him."
So now we are all 'equal' to him. We know now hate and love, truth and lies. The hate and lie is only a denial of love. In reality it can only exist if the Creation allows it. There is a full circle the Creation is making to understand that Love is not selfish. It is the path we need to follow.
The love when it crated us, it knew we would stray. We had to try our own path. Try the path of the lie.
This thread is intended as a continuation of a dialog from a 'Religion anyone?' thread. It is not appropriate to hijack a thread and is not wise to throw pearls into a mud.
@plot-paris said:
nomer, I have to agree with you. this thread is responsible for me spending hours of my time in the office reading instead of modelling (may that be the reason why I have been fired yesterday?
Tomasz, I like your idea of love being an elemental force in our world (I understand you talking about the love that makes a parent stand between the danger and his children to protect them rather than the love that makes two young people do naughty things on a sofa).
but instantly I have two questions, that I always have been uncomfortable with and that could break lose some new discussions:
my religion teacher once tried us to engage in a debate about love and stated the point, that love is absolutely selfish and that we only treat people arround us with love to recieve the same treatment in return - therefore: selfish!
(I allways refused this idea, because it is depressing. but I think to a certain extend he is right. on the other hand, when love goes beyond life, when someone is willing to take up punishment or pain to protect others (the "parents protecting children" thing again)... doesn't that go beyond selfish love?)second question: if we assume, that love is the force that keeps our world together - doesn't that mean that, like with all forces of nature, there has to be a balance? like the fact that to cool a fridge down inside, you will produce a lot of heat. so if you create love at some point, does there have to be a balance somehwere, a creation of the opposite (hate, despair, frustration)?
one fact that supports this view is, that quite often love shows it's strongest form in difficult times. your love to someone will be most palpable (and even hurt you, create pain) when you are away from him/her.
or in times of great evil, like the third reich in Germany, such great examples of selfless love can be found (like German people, hiding jewish families, risking their own lifes to protect others).and a last thought. can you describe love as a drug? because I am really high, when I am in love. when I break up with someone after a serious relationship, I suffer for a serious withdrawal syndrom for some time...
I know, very dark thoughts. and Tomasz, I still agree that love is the right way to go! but nevertheless these are question we should answer
@rickw said:
Selfish "love" isn't really love. So, what are the characteristics of true love? Love is patient and kind, not jealous or boastful or proud. Love is not self-seeking, nor easily angered, and it does not keep a record of wrongs. Love embraces truth. Love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. We sometimes put our trust in people, governments, economies, jobs, relationships, investments, speculations, and all kinds of things that will eventually let us down. But love remains. There may be pain in unrequited love, or love lost, but true love perseveres, conquering the selfish false-love that would become angry, bitter, or despondent.
(my paraphrase of the Apostle Paul's description of love)
@plot-paris said:
well, I am afraid to really answer my own question of whether love is selfish or not we have to refer to the dear old greeks and their different variations of love (earlier mentioned Eros, Agape, Filia, Caritas...).
but another question (that I already answered for myself) jumps to my mind:
Do you distinguish between "I love you" and "I am in love with you"?
(I do. if I have a crush on someone, it is mostly defined by desire and perhaps curiosity. when things go further and you are like on drugs when with the other and absolutely devastated when without... thats what I call "being in love with someone.
finally, after months of a relationship, when you deeply know the other and when the first wave of "being in love" is not as strong and confusing anymore, you will know, if you love the other.
during a long relationship "being in love" may subside at some point and come back at another. but love is the deep feeling that is always there)
I want to write something to response somehow to all your thoughts Paris, Modelhead and others. I wanted to find a comfortable time to add something, but it seems I have to join here, otherwise it could be completely out of a context.
My own vision of the World is pretty crystallized, although I do my best to keep my ears open. Paris it talking about common intelligence, something we all share, have access to. Connel is writing about salvation and Juan want to hear something about eternity. I have so much to say. Probably I will write a book, when will be older.
My world is build around love. I have written about my personal experience of a deepest feeling ever in 'I believe.... part two' thread.
What if Love is this energy that binds all together? Love that is humble and fragile, yet powerful. What if we all are able to 'tune ourselves' to receive it? What if salvation means letting this love to dwell within us? What if I am crying out to meet the Love again? It is my deepest desire. I could call it a 'longing for an eternal meeting'. Plot you will live not as a part of collective spirit, but as a individual submerged in Love. It will do nothing to stop you doing bad things. In its presence, you will not be able to. It would be too rude, too cruel. There will be no condemnation by Love. All whose lives were far from love will simply be condemned by their acts as they will realize instantly how blind they were, how stupid, how selfish, how empty. There will be nothing to say, no defence at all. We all we will see us as we really are. That is why it is important to live in a truth.. there will be less surprise for us,in what we will see.
Being good doesn't mean being perfect. So many are trying to be and get just a frustration. Willingness to be good takes source in meeting someone good, you want to follow.
Jesus said that his 'food' was hearing and doing everything what Father said. For him Father and Love it is same person, same thing. That is how I feel it. My spirit following the Love, that is alive within me, cryies out: 'Father!!!' and this inner shout takes birth in a deepest point in my soul. It has same authenticity, as my memories of the meeting with the Father. I want to do more, to help others discover we are not orphans. We ALL have a Father.
To easier understand how love works I am using a comparison with an opposite - hate. Hate, if will take you in its possession, will drag you, force you to do something, will internally destroy you and in the end will spill you out completely wrecked. Love works opposite. Its invitation can be easily missed, it will guide you, but you will find your will is not compromised at all. You will notice that it feeds you and helps to develop your talents and in the end will leave you wiser and surprisingly more independent.
Reaching to the root of my experience is my ultimate goal in my life. I want to get there and take as much as I can to share with others. Being a husband and a father helps me a lot. It was looking much easier to hide from the World and play a monk, but it was not what I really wanted.
Take care
Tomasz
Thanks Jim for sharing. I need to verify how SU2KT exports vertexes of a face. It looks like normals are correct but order of vertexes in a mirrored face is wrong. I will post modified snipped for faces when done.
Tomasz
If you mention tutorial below... I haven't spotted it.
http://www.wine-reviews.net/applications/google-sketchup-6-on-linux-and-freebsd-with-wine.html
I have installed Gecko when wine asked first time. My bad.
Will reinstalling help? Will try it.
@unknownuser said:
it is a very colorful spirituality. No Gods are necessary.
It is good. It leaves space for a dialog.
So exploring a soul within us by a meditation is not a complete nonsense for an atheist?!
Interesting. 
Going further.. All gods are man-made? They are made up? Am I right?
Does the atheism necessarily reject existence of spiritual world?
Does it alway come together? Can an atheist say: 'I do not believe in any god, but I think we are spiritual beings'? I am simply curious..
Is it not very 'empty' and sad there?
I see Solo that 'I believe..' thread made you nervous. So did your find to me.
Probably you have read why I believe and what I believe in. The author of the clip stretched the facts far too much. I have spent enough time on the internet to find out that several things are simply not true. Especially those regarding the date of 25th of December. Obviously I do not deny there are similarities in several cases.
You 'have spent a lot of time examining Christianity' as I understood.
You see, it is not a matter of trying to verify if the 'Good News' is true, checking historical sources.
It is a matter of opening your heart to the message.
If I would tell you that you can meet the One I believe in .. just by asking him to come.. would you be brave enough to do it and be serious in it. Not just for a fun.
I know you are ultra sceptic in this matter.
Do you believe in love? Is it only a bio-chemical process inside us? If you follow this path you will understand more.
The essence is to experience love. To let it work. You will find a lot of bad 'Christians' too, but it doesn't mean what we live is illusion.
@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
"Love is ...
I believe my cat is very close to being god...at least as described above.
You are happy man, modelhead! 
You both have eyes, but do not see. You both heave ears, but do not hear.
Many have broken their teeth on Old Testament. Start with the New and do not fear to listen to your heart, not only to your mind.
I like the Raja parable. Thanks Juan for the quotation. I am wondering where is it coming from? India? The wisdom comes from listening. Same as faith.
Talking about the Elephant... I would like to write few words about my experience of Him.
I can't say I know him and that I know how he really is, but what I have experienced it describes Him in general.
In other words I won't say that he is a column, because I haven't touched his leg, but I know that he is big, because he passed in front of me with high speed and I have almost fallen down.
Therefore I can say his size is huge.
It was almost 20 years ago and it was not in reality, but only in a dream. I don't remember my dream from the beginning if there was such. I just remember that I has been taken out from the Earth high up. The blue plannet was getting smaller and smaller and surrounding was getting brighter and brighter. I have had a gradually increasing feeling that all my problems, all problems of the Earth are not that important and not that scary. I have started to worry about my parents and all loved one I had left on the planet, but that feeling has vanished as well. Its place has been taken by growing peace and I realized I hear an choir somewhere singing just one waving sound and noticed that the light is very bright then ... it has hit me. The feeling of LOVE AND PEACE I cannot describe in words. It was so immense, so powerful that I haven't even thought about a fear. It was the peace Jesus has said that the World cannot give. 100% of peace, undisturbed by the smallest pain, smallest worry - nothing. Perfect safety in father arms. The most powerful and the most loving Father ever. I has woken up. It has been a morning. I have known something has changed deep, deep in me. The World was the same.
@unknownuser said:
So what prompts you to make the statement ?God is Love?? How do you know? Where are you getting your information from? What is the ?It? you are referring to?
It is my source. My ?it?.
I have hope that someone will share his experience of our Father. I know that Buddhists experience Nothing, American Indians were meeting the Great Spirit. I intended to post my testimony somewhere else, on more 'appropriate' forum, but we have the corner bar here and the interesting thread.
So share your experiences, not quotes, please. I am really curious. Maybe we will get better view of our Elephant.
Cheers
Tomasz
@juanv.soler said:
as you I am expecting more confessions
Patience, my friend If the thread was meant to die it will.
I know at least one person how have experienced same feeling in his dream.
I have experienced it also in reality, being awake but I prefer to wait.
I don't want to be one man orchestra 
I have found exact icon 
I have been preparing it for quite a long time before I have posted.
He is calling me to share. I cannot keep it and I don't want to.
It would be very selfish if I would.
Please PM me if something doesn't make sense in English tense-wise