A new home for SketchUp
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As a professional non-AEC industrial(product) designer I have used and pushed SketchUp to its limits since atLast v4. I was drawn to its ease of learning, its insistent not-CAD concept tool mission, and the aesthetics of its raw visualization. These were certainly a result of atLast's passion and that DNA is resident in the legacy team. Google's brand style worked with that, though its obvious mission of modeling the earth was meaningless to me, and the limited real modeling improvements in each release were disappointing. Trimble, which I have known for its navigational stuff, is a strong company, but has no perceived creative style. It is good that the development team will be in a separate facility that hopefully will not be driven to mediocrity by a numbers only value system.
The vertical nature of Trimble and its civil engineering/GIS focus does not bode well for me, though for many of you it might.
GIS, survey and BIM are required information/parameters/documentation but are not the creative crux that lent the "sketch" to the product name. Those of us using SketchUp within an iterative process for designing products, interiors, gaming, entertainment, woodworking, displays and art may not fit anymore. I guess we'll see, but I am not counting on improved small stuff stability/accuracy. -
Hi all, this is my first post on this forum. (I have read all 31 pages of this thread btw)
I am really excited about this acquisition. I mean we've read from both John Bacus on this forum as well as from Trimble that the free version will remain and as many of you have pointed out... you can still use SU8 in a worst case scenario.
The reason I am excited is because of the tech that Trimble has and what the possibilities can mean for SU's future development. I am an architect by training, a techie enthusiast and am currently own a business where we do VDC, CAFM, and Surveying work. Before the announcement I had not heard about Trimble, although I am starting to appreciate the stuff they do and if I read that recent article correctly from Sparpoint... it seems that they will focus on creating a more robust application in the AEC field in order to get a smoother understanding of data from the screen to the field. Coming from the AEC field.. that is just awesome.
If you are not from that vertical, it still seems like the API will remain open and all the awesome developers will still crank out cool plugins to customize the workflow for specific needs.
Thanks JB for taking the time to comment on the thread. (Not sure if you remember but you and Mark spoke to my meetup group in NYC a few months ago... you guys rock!)
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Thanks for that, John. That's kind of what I was getting at...that the API allows the userbase to drive SU in whatever direction suits the individual user...something that you'd never be able to do, given it's diversity of uses. It would still be nice, however, to have some of the more basic functions like rounded edges or more sophisticated extrusion coded into the program.
I don't know what you and Trimble have planned exactly, but from the various blogs it sounds like what might be on the cards are different flavours of SketchUp for different sections of the AEC pipeline.
There seems to be some worry that this would turn SU into some BIM-oriented nightmare (for people not interested in BIM, that is), but I don't see why that should be the case. Surely an extension of the platform concept could mean that such extra functionality could, in effect be bolted onto the plain vanilla version? I'm assuming this is at least part of what Bryn Fosburgh was referring to when he talked about the underlying engine being sufficiently robust.
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Given the Trembles said commitment to maintaining a free version seems on track with maitaining a certain status quo! Populating a free version (generally for start up or novice bases would seem non sensical to their bigger plan.
The Trembles current servicing the spacial capturing market seems also to align well with the initial purpose of SU by the Googies and as previously mentioned this may be why it wasn't on offer to the Autocrats!
I'm trusting this is the perfect pick up and the community should share the excitement!
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@allen weitzman said:
Hi Kris,
Licensing laws (that I'm familiar with) requires you to pass an NCARB endorsed exam. To qualify for the exam you must either be a graduate of an accredited university/college and have worked for a licensed architect for a number of years or interned for a longer period of time.
Have you considered taking the exam? There are a number of home study aids as well as classroom opportunities to learn the academic elements.
I know several people who either never completed or attended college but diligently prepared and passed the exam.
You should look into it. Good luck. I'm sure you can do it.
Allen
I appreciate your support Allen... although I never graduated from my university. I studied Architecture at university and graduated from an associate degree college, but bills and life precluded me from being able to afford the many many credit hours it took. I did have at one time an Architect; a mentor of mine who, wanted me to take the Missouri Registration exam...Warren Bates, but he has since passed away. Missouri does have a grandfather law for self studied architects. I have considered it before, although I've never seen much benefit in it except more responsibility, more detailed drawings and less interesting design. Not that you can't design interesting things... It's just that the predominant amount of work is rather bland and boring. All in all the only real reason I found that I ever wanted the title was for purely egotistical reasons... And my ego is really big enough already.
I do appreciate your confidence. and you never know. maybe one day.
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I understand what Platform goal will look like.
IMHO there're 2 aspects that really holding SketchUp back, which can't really be done in API level or plugins:
1.)No real curve, I don't know if we could really have some nurb in future.
2.)Display speed performances. SketchUp don't need any rendering baked-in anymore at this age.
And the strength of SketchUp have is it's simplicity and clean design. People can get started with very little learning.And I see SketchUp is the best thing in 3D world, not even blender can have big market like SketchUp. Because while Blender is Open-source project, but it only apply for 3D industry. One who don't have knowledge about 3D can't use for their purpose easily.
Seem like the core philosophy of SketchUp is very Open-source, free as the meaning of 'freedom', especially like a CMS called Drupal. Drupal don't do anything best out of the box as a product (it's minimal feature for people to get started), but it API/hook system is supurb and embraced collaboration with other open-source projects and make it a very flexible platform. It position itself between web framework and product, it's not the best framework nor product. But People would find it can do a lot only when dig deep in and know how to use plugins and API, feel very SketchUp to me. And when other stuck to be CMS only, Drupal can and is expanding out to more market which make it very successful, their robust 'hook system' make this happened. It successful because both normal people and pros find they can use it and customized to their works. It can built blog, e-commerce, news site, intranet, social web, web apps, etc. I think this is how Trimble see SketchUp as a platform.
And I think there should be free and $500 vanilla SketchUp version as is. Take free stuffs and increse the price is not an options and right way to do it for this business age. Professionals can buy other well-enhanced versions at higher price range. I means those well-enhanced versions should be able to do more than current SketchUp with combination of free Ruby plugins, feature that is hard to do well with Ruby, or at least well-integrated to make it interesting and valuable. Things that superior than current SketchUp.
Also, I think it's already the time to do UI/UX improvements, seem keyboard shortcut and a static menu with lot of buttons is not the only way to interact in this age. SketchUp UI start to show its age. People need to move and remember less while still able to do thing as fast. Something like Customizable Pie menu on right-click and smart floating/transparent menu seem like a good alternatives for touch interface. At least, something like Lumion is feel very clean and easy to use:
Youtube VideoIf Trimble value business partnership, there're so many businesses that already help SketchUp grow. Not only just software in Trimble PortFolios. Make better and deep intetgration with them and the platform can grow in so many directions quickly. SketchUp can play well and become another tool in the arsenals of many people, easy to added inot their workflow. So core SketchUp developer can focused on what they can do best, make the core platform robust, adaptable.
For example, a seamless back and forth workflow between SketchUp, Layout, 3d printing CAD, current CPU/GPU/Real-time rendering and animation softwares will suffice SketchUp as Archvis/conceptual design platform for 80 percent of market needed. That would empowered the current users and open to new job opportunity a lot in this niche (this dind't count the benefit of change management in design phases).
Also, it's very right decision that SketchUp embraced both Ruby and C++. SketchUp plugin ecology can't become so rich without Ruby.
And I feel the future is bright
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I just wanted to make one point as I have read almost every page of this thread.
My own thoughts on this are very mixed and seemingly change day-to-day. On one hand I knew the trimble brand before the announcement. They make good products.
I use SU to plot survey data and create models and things so a buyout by these guys should be a great thing. If SU natively allowed me to input data then this would be simply fantastic.What worries me however is that Trimble will release a free and pro version of sketchup with an optional component for surveyors and engineers. This 'option' could cost hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. [With a pricetag similar to pointools..$5k anyone?]
The real fear I have is that Trimble will strangle out any 3rd party devs. who want to do something similar for a lot less.
After all why allow the little guy to come in and clean up to the detriment of your 'pro' offerings. It simply doesn't make business sense.I think that the problem fundamentally lies in the fact that the whole surveying/engineering industry players are used to paying thousands for their software and equipment. So why shouldn't Trimble charge what they expect to pay?
Trimble has to address the huge pricing differences between the part timers and the pros and offer a product that is suited to both.
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@jbacus said:
We built the Ruby API to open SketchUp as a platform for development by the community. That much is correct— and from my perspective, it has been an astounding success. It has been a difficult project (here's a funny picture of me talking about the challenges in my keynote to last year's "International Symposium on End-User Design") but also a profoundly rewarding one.
IMO it is the best design decision of SketchUp. Complements an easy to use 3d modelling tool when it's also a easy to script platform.
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@mike lucey said:
...it is Google that will have the major benefit at the end of the day .... somehow. Mmmmm, maybe we could speculate as to how that might be the case?
Perhaps some urban lidar scanning related... who knows if google tries to build something point cloud related for google earth, like Nokia NAVTEQ True for Nokia Maps 3d
Youtube Video -
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@eddix99 said:
I think that the problem fundamentally lies in the fact that the whole surveying/engineering industry players are used to paying thousands for their software and equipment. So why shouldn't Trimble charge what they expect to pay?
maybe they will charge high $$ for separate modules but those are going to be entirely different apps (generally speaking)
as far a sketchup itself goes though, i have to believe they'll keep the price in the same range it's in now.. (free & a souped up pro version for under a thousand dollars)
i'm by no means a business consulter/projector/analyst (or whatever that type of person is called) but i do know if trimble decides to charge even 50 bucks for the free version, half the user base disappears.. pretty much immediately.. we're talking millions of people suddenly no longer use the app.. and at this stage, i feel the ginormous user base has to be more valuable than getting a few extra bucks out of some people..
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@unknownuser said:
@eddix99 said:
I think that the problem fundamentally lies in the fact that the whole surveying/engineering industry players are used to paying thousands for their software and equipment. So why shouldn't Trimble charge what they expect to pay?
maybe they will charge high $$ for separate modules but those are going to be entirely different apps (generally speaking)
as far a sketchup itself goes though, i have to believe they'll keep the price in the same range it's in now.. (free & a souped up pro version for under a thousand dollars)
i'm by no means a business consulter/projector/analyst (or whatever that type of person is called) but i do know if trimble decides to charge even 50 bucks for the free version, half the user base disappears.. pretty much immediately.. we're talking millions of people suddenly no longer use the app.. and at this stage, i feel the ginormous user base has to be more valuable than getting a few extra bucks out of some people..
I agree with you that Trimble has to be very careful about its pricing strategy. I'm just a bit worried that as an amateur surveyor/SU user that I will be rounded up with the pro's (pricing wise) who need/are prepared to spend thousands on a product that will do the job they need it to do.
If there were some very basic native survey tools with the pro version and then a good dev. community to fill any gaps then I would have no grounds for complaint. After all Trimble is a Surveying/Engineering company and this should be a good thing for a guy like me, right?
I'm just worried that dev's who want to develop products that trimble are already marketing will be squeezed out. Leaving me facing a large bill if I want to do some basic stuff.
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@eddix99 said:
I'm just worried that dev's who want to develop products that trimble are already marketing will be squeezed out. Leaving me facing a large bill if I want to do some basic stuff.
oh.. right.. i'm worried about that too.
a scenario where trimble basically gains control over allthe plugins etc..
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an optimistic assessment of Sketchup's purchase by Trimble from our friends from School.
and, by the way, why do people generally picture the future as a catastrophic one? let's look ahead to a better Sketchup. it is much better for one's health.
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@edson said:
and, by the way, why do people generally picture the future as a catastrophic one? let's look ahead to a better Sketchup. it is much better for one's health.
Set your expectations low, and your expectations will most often be exceeded, rather than be constantly disappointed!
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As I said elsewhere...
No one [not us, not Trimble] knows how this change of ownership will pan out...
It might be better.
It might be worse.
But one thing is sure - it will be different.
Hope for the best: plan for the worst.
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@edson said:
and, by the way, why do people generally picture the future as a catastrophic one? let's look ahead to a better Sketchup. it is much better for one's health.
dunno.. my take on it is that people are generally excited about this change.. it's just that one negative comment seems to affect people greater than one positive comment..
(which reminds me of something i heard a few times over the years… "it takes ten positive acts throughout a day to make up for one negative" (or something like that)) …we're (humans) weirdos
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SketchUp Free/viewer $0
SketchUp Pro $500 (raising price to some degree and help the software grow faster is acceptable. Think how luxology's Modo grow so aggressive and fast)
SketchUp Official Apps by Trimbles $xxx -$x,xxx
SketchUp partners/3rd parties Apps
SketchUp Free AppsIMHO I think this App Store structures make sense and easy to get. And if Trimble softwares are already good, they don't need to fear for competitions. They have better insight for softwares and business anyway. And they can live on royalty fee too
. Empowered users to do more things is better than keep thing for a few niches. And sales from those pro and apps would come from those free users when they fluented with the SketchUp, they would look nowhere else when need some 3D related stuffs and solve problems. And I feel cheaper prices for already potential 30 millions (and potentially more) is better than keep it expensive and limited to a lot less users. Some companies will actually do it anyway, sooner or later.At least, even a big 'Desk' who love monopoly already 'get' that and give away a lot free stuff to students and casual users.
It's likely that the world move to personal fabrication in next decades, anyone can make physical stuffs from their idea easily, anyone can be designers to some degree. Just like last decades, when everyone can buy printers and start to published things themself.Anyway, I don't know anything about Trimble strategy about this coming era.
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TIG
one of the problems when Google took over, it did not get worse, or better, but also not different..... for years and years. -
@frv said:
TIG
one of the problems when Google took over, it did not get worse, or better, but also not different..... for years and years.I'm not sure I agree with that. It definitely got better...maybe not as much as some people hoped for, but definitely better. One of the best things that happened to it was the opening up of the API and SDK to enable massive 3rd party development. It's also got faster...and gained DCs. Then there's Layout, which we only got a glimpse of at Base Camp 1, just before the acquisition.
But maybe most significant of all, in the long term...it got popular. If SU development team and Trimble play it right (and that's going to take some very careful foundation work...maybe not always in directions that some users appreciate) then it has the potential to become ubiquitous...both in the AEC world and for more general modelling by Everyman...the Flash or Doc of the 3D world.
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