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    Terrain from contours - improve on native 'from contours'?

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    • fredo6F Offline
      fredo6
      last edited by

      @pbacot and mac1

      Grid refinement (both densify and undensify) is possible, though complex to handle, but with a quad mesh structure, it means that it will break the regularity of cells, i.e. one cell will be split into 4 smaller quads, or 4 quads will be replaced by one bigger quad.

      At this stage, I am trying to obtain a decent geometry with a regular grid in an acceptable time.

      pbacot: thanks for the model. If you have others, they will be welcome to perform further tests and validation.

      Fredo

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      • simon le bonS Offline
        simon le bon
        last edited by

        (From first page)
        http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=44282#p400386

        @unknownuser said:

        .../
        You probably need to use some external software (I have seen one some time ago, but I don't remember the name. It has export capability to Sketchup, can handle crests and is fully specialized on this problem of terrain shaping)./...

        Hi Fredo πŸ˜„
        your Toposhaper looks very promizing πŸ‘ πŸ‘ β˜€
        You were probably talking about Terragen
        ( Terragen 2.4 Free Version Now Available)

        Here a model made by Google Guy (G.G.):
        http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=f4350227d1c9debd6623100010a93a06

        some really nice models by TaffGoch:
        http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?tags=Terragen

        http://i.snag.gy/NSHXP.jpg

        Here from [url=http://wetbanana.deviantart.com/:6upgx29j]Wetbanana terragen gallery[/url:6upgx29j]

        http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2012/347/d/e/rocky_cliffs_2_by_wetbanana-d5nxfwx.png

        picked up into Terragen forums:
        [url=http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=5763.msg59956#msg59956:6upgx29j]Re: Terrains For Google SketchUp?[/url:6upgx29j]

        @unknownuser said:

        For minimal effort your best bet would be to forget all about generating your own terrains and import real world elevation data instead. If I recall correctly you can directly import .dem files into sketchup. Try downloading some files from here and see if they work out for you.

        [url:6upgx29j]http://seamless.usgs.gov[/url:6upgx29j]

        The link appears to don't work πŸ˜•
        but this one is ok (free topo download in pdf)

        Illustrates available US Topos
        [url:6upgx29j]http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/[/url:6upgx29j]

        Historical Topographic Map Collection
        http://nationalmap.gov/historical/

        etc..

        ++simon.

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        • fredo6F Offline
          fredo6
          last edited by

          @simon le bon said:

          You were probably talking about Terragen
          ( Terragen 2.4 Free Version Now Available)

          Simon,

          That was not Terragen. I really need to find this software.

          Fredo

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          • PixeroP Offline
            Pixero
            last edited by

            Was it this one: http://www.geocontrol2.com/e_index.htm

            Or maybe one of these: http://vterrain.org/Packages/Artificial/

            Or Leveller here: http://www.daylongraphics.com/

            Or Grome: http://www.quadsoftware.com/index.php?m=section&sec=product&subsec=editor

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            • pilouP Offline
              pilou
              last edited by

              @unknownuser said:

              That was not Terragen. I really need to find this software.

              Does this program was a "free" program ?
              A plug or a complet program ? (MojoWorld, World Machine, Bryce 7...)

              here maybe some little things? (in French and not aespecially for MAC! πŸ˜‰
              http://www.igeomac.fr/igeomac/Applications_Mac.html

              Scroll and see LandSerf ? Maybe not direct SU export but...

              Frenchy Pilou
              Is beautiful that please without concept!
              My Little site :)

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              • fredo6F Offline
                fredo6
                last edited by

                I think I found it, this is SimuTerra by COMPUneering.

                See link there: http://www.compuneering.com/simuterra.php;

                It costs 200$ in Pro version and 100$ for an entry-level version.

                It has some capability to export / import with Sketchup.

                Fred

                PS: there are interesting [url=http://www.compuneering.com/simuterraMovies.php:3g8iku5m]videos[/url:3g8iku5m] showing the capabilities of the software, including to draw roads and other landscaping decorations

                Simuterra overview.png

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                • M Offline
                  mac1
                  last edited by

                  Fredo:
                  Excellent as usual πŸ‘
                  Looks like a great program. πŸ‘ I Wonder how it compares to others like Arcgis. Would take a lots of testing to find out.
                  I also like their emphasis on model preprocessing. Think that is where novices like myself get in big trouble trying to use questionable data. Ran into this in some searching;
                  "

                  • Contours should always point upstream in valleys
                    Contours should always point downridge along ridges
                    Adjacent contours should always be sequential or equivalent
                    Contours should never split into two
                    Contours should never cross or loop
                    Contours should never spiral
                    Contours should never stop in the middle of a map
                    Liking to hit my finger with a hammer I tried this;
                    Used you ploy segmenter to get more consistent points on the contour lines, ignored some info ref above. In most cases used 80 segs , but during process kept eye on entity info and for some short segs keep count down close to orginal. Needs to be redone to remove warts but looks more reasonable to me vs like orginal.

                  contours simplified-post._mac1skp.skp

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                  • pbacotP Offline
                    pbacot
                    last edited by

                    Thank you Fred et al.

                    Here is another set of contours for testing from a civil engineer's file. I had to set the heights in my CAD drawing. I think I got it all right. In some of the twisted minor contours, I had to use what logic I have at my disposal...

                    I have not recurved these, and again they are higly segmented--and this seems to be a norm one would need to account for. So simplify (I can do this if there is a problem) and recurve as desired.

                    Sandbox creates over 42,000 faces.

                    Peter


                    DN house contours.skp


                    Screen shot 2013-01-05 at 12.54.09 PM.png

                    MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                    • M Offline
                      mac1
                      last edited by

                      I have been trying to understand what the general accepted criteria is for "TINs". One site I have found ,which seems credible to me, states the segment length should be > then contour seperation. The rational for that is to avoid " flat triangles ".
                      Here are the links I found of interest. . Note the Harvard school link has good press for SU'
                      http://www.ian-ko.com/ Under resources check out the solution center
                      http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/gis/manual/contours/
                      Note these are more GIS centric and thus not one to one applicable to the limited SU intent for their TIN implementation.

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                      • pbacotP Offline
                        pbacot
                        last edited by

                        For comparison here is a TIN (picture of it) provided in the same project. I think the engineers set the parameters for their needs. A SB skin made from the contours "looks better" than one from the TIN and shows some site features better (such as the dirt road winding down the slope). Still they must be from the same dataset.


                        Screen shot 2013-01-06 at 12.20.47 AM.png

                        MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                        • fredo6F Offline
                          fredo6
                          last edited by

                          @pbacot
                          Here is a first result. Actually, considering that the terrain is rather regular and there are many contours closely spaced, I don't think it is necessary to have a very detailed grid (50 x 22 in the attached file).

                          Note that I had to simplify the contours with Curvizard to keep an acceptable calculation time (here over 30 seconds, mostly related to the computation of the concave hull).

                          DN house contours - pbacot - 6 Jan 13 - results.skp

                          House pbacot 6 Jan 13.png

                          House pbacot 6 Jan 13 - 2.png

                          @Mac1
                          I am not familiar with TIN algorithms, but it seems the one posted by pbacot does not reflect the fine granularity of the contours.

                          Fredo

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                          • pbacotP Offline
                            pbacot
                            last edited by

                            Yes, I noticed the TIN was pretty simple. I am not sure I have the subset of readings they had for this project (would be interesting to compare to the output). Without having studied the process, I am guessing that more advanced extrapolation goes into creating contours. The civil engineer may have created the TIN for some soils or drainage analysis--and it may be just sufficient for those purposes.

                            Those terrains look great for OUR general purpose: showing the new construction in a simulation of the site. I would be curious to see it at a higher resolution of quads. I don't think 30 sec is that long, though I imagine the time goes up exponentially when you try to add a little more detail. As I noted there is a rough road on the slope, which can be made out in the contours, but not sure it registers on the final topo. Also there is part of a drainage ditch on the right. Such an area might want more detail, if ever a way is worked out for selective resolution in adjoining parts--or a way go back in a redo an area such that it can be joined to the rest....

                            But this definitely is giving a clean looking (without the oil-canning) surface with good geometry. Thanks for the effort and sharing the great results!

                            MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                            • fredo6F Offline
                              fredo6
                              last edited by

                              @pbacot said:

                              Those terrains look great for OUR general purpose: showing the new construction in a simulation of the site. I would be curious to see it at a higher resolution of quads. I don't think 30 sec is that long, though I imagine the time goes up exponentially when you try to add a little more detail.

                              Here is a more detailed reconstruction of the terrain, with a grid 120 x 53. This one takes less than a minute.

                              Indeed, the best would be to adjust the granularity of the mesh based on the resulting terrain shape itself (more than the density of the contours actually).

                              DN house contours - pbacot - 6 Jan 13 - results.skp

                              House pbacot 6 Jan 13 - 3.png

                              Fredo

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                              • utilerU Offline
                                utiler
                                last edited by

                                Sorry to sound a little dumb but Fredo what is the process you're doing here?

                                1. Start with imported contours
                                2. run through Curviloft

                                purpose/expression/purpose/....

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                                • pbacotP Offline
                                  pbacot
                                  last edited by

                                  Yes, that's looking quite muscular. that's worth a minute, depending if you can handle the number of polygons in the end. Thanks for posting! Looks like progress is good.

                                  MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                                  • fredo6F Offline
                                    fredo6
                                    last edited by

                                    @utiler said:

                                    Sorry to sound a little dumb but Fredo what is the process you're doing here?

                                    1. Start with imported contours
                                    2. run through Curviloft

                                    Toposhaper uses a different algorithm which is more adapted to terrains and can cope with connection of more than two contours (for example when you have a saddle). It also works on a quad mesh.

                                    So it is a very different approach compared with Curviloft

                                    Fredo

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                                    • utilerU Offline
                                      utiler
                                      last edited by

                                      Thanks Fredo, so if I triangulated points with your triangulate plugin then ran toposhaper I'd get this result!!!!???

                                      purpose/expression/purpose/....

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                                      • P Offline
                                        Panga
                                        last edited by

                                        Nice evolution Fredo, I'm still waiting for this magical tool !! Keep up the good work and I'll hit the donate button again !! πŸ˜‰

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                                        • fredo6F Offline
                                          fredo6
                                          last edited by

                                          Here is the terrain with a much higher definition 200 x 88, so around 35,000 triangles generated. Takes longer of course, but does not bring a lot more details compared with the low and medium definitions terrains.

                                          DN house contours - pbacot - High Def.skp

                                          House pbacot 6 Jan 13 - high def.png

                                          Fredo

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                                          • fredo6F Offline
                                            fredo6
                                            last edited by

                                            @utiler said:

                                            Thanks Fredo, so if I triangulated points with your triangulate plugin then ran toposhaper I'd get this result!!!!???

                                            With TopoShaper you really need to have contours as curves, not a set of altitude points. This is because the Terrain construction uses contours to delimit the zone of influence on points comprised between contours.

                                            With a set of altitude points, the algorithm would be more based on Skinning, with Bezier or Nurbs methods, which is another kind of script (I can do it, but it would definitely not be very fast with Ruby only).

                                            So, all you need is the contours and then run Toposhaper, as shown in previous videos and the video below

                                            TopoShaper pbacot on House 50.gif

                                            Fredo

                                            PS: As far as I remember, I have not written (yet) a "triangulate plugin".

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