RBZ as allowed extension
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BUT if you are going to use the 'Install Extensions...' button in Preferences at all you need to provide a RBZ file: it is possible to trick it into letting you install a ZIP by typing *+<enter>, but there are no checks that the ZIP archive contains .rb/.rbs files so any old tat can now be more easily installed.
At least with a RBZ format the user might have some confidence that the author has made a toolset archive that will work and not a ZIP of their holiday-photos...
I agree that a ZIP based installer that checked for at least one .rb/.rbs file in the base level of the ZIP was all that was needed... a RBZ is just a renamed ZIP with an illusion of quality-assurance. -
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@tig said:
At least with a RBZ format ...
"RBZ" is not a format.. ZIP is a format.
The problem is that the Google team boo-booed in not having the button show "rbz|zip" (ie, both extensions.) So it's really a bug (or an omission.)
The only REAL use of a new extension, would be for drag and drop install, where a new file type handler needs to be registered, and associated with sketchup.exe explicitly.
Even a parameter install from the command line option, ie:
%(#8000BF)[sketchup.exe -i %HOME%/Downloads/sometool.zip]
does not need a special extension (if it gets implemented in the future.)The world just does not need ANOTHER extension for a zipped archive file, given the limited functionality of v8M2.
I guess my point was that if we ignore it.. the GSUDT may get the idea we don't want it (and perhaps fix it in M3.)
Jim's little menu item works much better, and is easier to find.
@tig said:
At least with a RBZ format the user might have some confidence ...
Well.. maybe.. maybe not. At the most (right now,) it's only a weak "indication."
Anyway.. it's just as easy to rename the file from rbz to zip, as it is from zip to rbz.
On Windows, renaming is not even necessary.. you can just right-click a file and say "Open with..." (or if you use 7zip, or similar, it has a context submenu, with an "open archive" choice.)
SO.. I'm really more against doubling the space used on the server, than using the rbz extension. (I just wish it had begun with 'sk' perhaps "skzp" instead of beginning with a 'rb'.)
Q: Can ONE file on the server, be downloaded via TWO links, one saves locally with a ".zip" extension, the other with a ".rbz" ?? ... and the user chooses which one they want.
@Gaieus: How about making a poll in the Dev forum, and let the community vote ??
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fwiw, (or maybe just a reminder)…
.rbz isn't the first time google(sketchup) has made a new extension for a zip file..
it's the same thing they did with .style ..and i think for anyone other than a hardcore ruby
(but even then, i'm sure a lot/most of those people won't mind either),the name rbz makes perfect sense..
we have .rb .rbs (scrambled?), and .rbz - ruby zip.. -
@dan rathbun said:
Q: Can ONE file on the server, be downloaded via TWO links, one saves locally with a ".zip" extension, the other with a ".rbz" ?? ... and the user chooses which one they want.
I dunno. I cannot do it for sure.
@dan rathbun said:
@Gaieus: How about making a poll in the Dev forum, and let the community vote ??
About what? I have long been lost here. I just made possible to attach rbz extension - that's all.
(But actually you can also poll the development community...) -
@dan rathbun said:
"RBZ" is not a format.. ZIP is a format.
which means there is no need to host both.
@dan rathbun said:
Anyway.. it's just as easy to rename the file from rbz to zip, as it is from zip to rbz.
On Windows, renaming is not even necessary.. you can just right-click a file and say "Open with..." (or if you use 7zip, or similar, it has a context submenu, with an "open archive" choice.)
.zip and .rbz both open the easily on a mac, right click >> open with, and you can even have them both 'auto' open after download, if you want to set it up.
so, personally I think SCF and/or the ruby'ists should just change all current .zip extension to .rbz with grep find and replace, and do the same for all the download advice, then any one requiring manual or alternate installs, simply unzips the *.rbz and carries on as usual.
The current volume of *.rb & *.rbs currently around, all need to be wrapped in a .zip carrying their current name and the .rbz moniker.
I think it makes sense that if you want a SketchUp ruby it comes in an identifiable package, I can do a search for .rbz and find the entire set of 'unzipped' SU Plugins and reinstall the one I accidentally binned etc...
A script could clean the entire archive and add or remove the 'mac' file structure at the same time if desired.
I'm not volunteering to write the script, [maybe GSU team will do it for us]
I'm just thinking about moving on as it's done... we now have .rbz for SU plugins.john
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@driven said:
.zip and .rbz both open the easily on a mac, right click >> open with, and you can even have them both 'auto' open after download, if you want to set it up.
using what? i couldn't open a .rbz with Archive Utility.app (plus is buried a bit too deep for easy access though if it worked, i guess i could associate it with .rbz.. (MacHD/ System/ Library/ Core Services)
but if i try to unzip a .rbz with it, it actually archives(?) it into a .cpgz file..
point is, i don't think there's anything that comes with OS X to open them..
i was going to try to open one with stuffit expander which i suppose would do it but i forgot i never reinstalled that after installing lion.. i just never really liked stuffit so i went looking for something else and i found a real gem of an app..
it's called better zip..
http://macitbetter.com/that's gotta be the best archive utility available for mac users.. seriously, download and try some things out with it..
a couple of interesting things to note: you can drag/drop a .rbz (or whatever type of archive) onto it's window and see it's contents.. pull individual items out of it.. add new files to it.. all without unzipping the thing to begin with.. pretty sweet.but the thing i'm most hyped on is it allowed me to make my own plugin installer very easily (not really an installer per se but i'll call it that.).. it's a service that will show up in my context menu.. i.e.- Right click on an rbz then 'extract with BetterZip' which i have the following set as the behavior for the context menu:
it works very well and is much better than either manually installing or going through SUprefs->ext->install
i might make a separate post about this app in the future.. (i guess i'll use the 30 day trial and if i actually end up buying this thing, i'll make a post
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@gaieus said:
@dan rathbun said:
Q: Can ONE file on the server, be downloaded via TWO links, one saves locally with a ".zip" extension, the other with a ".rbz" ?? ... and the user chooses which one they want.
I dunno. I cannot do it for sure.
It's possible using .htaccess - though, not sure how SCF would be able to integrate it into the forum - least not for plugins only...
But it's something I will be doing for Vertex Tools and Bezier Surface which I serve from my own server. Two links which both points to the same binary - just the browser being served different filename.
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@unknownuser said:
using what?
@unknownuser said:
but if i try to unzip a .rbz with it, it actually archives(?) it into a .cpgz file..
point is, i don't think there's anything that comes with OS X to open them..the very first time before you open one, you need to use 'More Info' >> 'open with' >>../ path to Archive Utility
[/quote]If you do this once double clicking will open .rbz by default [unless you override it]
I also use the free 'The Unarchiver' it's on the App Store [but I get it direct] great for all those odd 'formats'.
http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/the-unarchiver/id425424353?mt=12I suppose I see the benefits in them not being 'too easy' to open, most mac users would never want to.
Download 'this_is_great.rbz' >> open SU >> Click rbzBUTTON... that's what's needed.
This is what we should be requesting, a rbzBUTTON,
the agument that it will over complicate the interface for non ruby users is a non stater.
You don't get the 'Plugins' Menu or 'Ruby Console' unless you want rubies, so, as part of that package, a rbzBUTTON could also be configured to 'load' a *.rbz or *.zip into earlier SU versions, running them in current session and also move the files at the same time for future use.This is what I think we and the GSUT should be looking into...
my 2.4 pence worth
john -
@driven said:
the very first time before you open one, you need to use 'More Info' >> 'open with' >>../ path to Archive Utility
If you do this once double clicking will open .rbz by default [unless you override it]
right.. tried all that.. tried all the different pref settings in archiveutility etc.. it won't open them.. it archives them into .cpgz files [and when i open the .cpgz file.. i get the original .rbz back].. this is on lion so i'm assuming apple has done something different with it.. archive utility simply won't unzip a .rbz on either of my computers.
@unknownuser said:
I suppose I see the benefits in them not being 'too easy' to open, most mac users would never want to.
thing is, we should want to because the devs are putting stuff in the zips that we shouldn't be putting in our plugins folders.. using projections.rb that i posted earlier itt as an example.. if i just 'install extensions' that as an rbz, i'll end up with the pdf and a read_me.txt in my plugins folder.. then i'll do it with another plugin which also has a readme in there and i'll now have a read_me 2 .txt... then 3.. and on and on.. the plugins folder is going to end up a mess..
then there are those plugins with win32 etc files in there that i don't want.. tig's mirror plugin for instance..@unknownuser said:
Download 'this_is_great.rbz' >> open SU >> Click rbzBUTTON... that's what's needed.
This is what we should be requesting, a rbzBUTTON,
the agument that it will over complicate the interface for non ruby users is a non stater.
You don't get the 'Plugins' Menu or 'Ruby Console' unless you want rubies, so, as part of that package, a rbzBUTTON could also be configured to 'load' a *.rbz or *.zip into earlier SU versions, running them in current session and also move the files at the same time for future use.This is what I think we and the GSUT should be looking into...
well, i already messed around with building a service in automator (which is in turn available through the sketchup menu so it can also be assigned as a shortcut key.. ) [but on lion, i had to add a step in the service which changed rbz to zip in order to open it]
it works ok but to me, it's kinda pointless because it still fails to give the option that we should have.. that is an uninstall option.. if i knew apple script, i could probably make it happen but i don't..
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I wrote a bash script that auto converts a copy of the rbz to zip 'with folders' for investigating, if it full of dross I can repackage and rezip as rbz, replacing the original. It needs some more work, but could run on multiple files at once.
To be honest individually, it's easier manually, once I set up Archive Utility... I should have tried that first, but when Jim mentioned shell scripts...
Removing from Plugins Folder from inside SU with automator/applescript or shell isn't hard, but any 'loaded' ruby won't go away until you restart SU.
I think I've got a snippet if your interested...
john
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yeah, i wasn't really talking about uninstalling and unloading from an active sketchup at the same time. (though that's what should be able to happen)
i'm basically thinking there should be a way to install a .rbz (say it has file1.rb, file2.pdf, file2.txt, and folder4) then all those file names are stored/associated with that particular plugin so if we choose to uninstall, we can easily trash everything that came in with the original .rbz.
i'm sure there are some 3rd party apps to do this but the option should be within sketchup itself.. i'm not sure how much of the 'install extensions' is exposed via the api but it seems like a ruby could be made for this purpose.. basically, two icons — install and uninstall.. clicking the install icon is basically the same as the 'install extensions' via su preferences except it takes note of what files actually went to the plugins folder.. clicking 'uninstall' brings up a list of what you've already installed and you can choose which plug ins to remove — and it deletes all files that came in with it during the install procedure... at the same time, unloading it from the current sketchup..
or is that impossible?
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Actually, have you ever looked at a .DS_Store file, they open in TextEdit.
When new Items are added to it, they could also be 'listed in sets' in a 'WebDialog' by writing that list to html.
Linking that html list to applescript folder actions would let you move stuff around..Pre-existing rubies and folders could be manually grouped in the wd, and could show as enabled or disabled depending on where you 'park' or append, the main ruby.
Anything added by 'Extension Manager' could be re-organised after the instal. i.e. dump the .dbthumbs etc... although that could be an auto folder action to remove those things.
that way your load button is just a shortcut to 'Extension Manager' and SU does it's stuff, but the remove button opens the 'webdialog' and lets you edit/disable/remove whatever you want by manipulating a single [per set] control item...
food for thoughthttp://www.tuaw.com/2009/03/26/applescript-exploring-the-power-of-folder-actions-part-iii/
john
john
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yeah,see .. that sounds sweet..
the problem, for me at least, is that while i do understand the basics of what you're outlining and i think it makes sense — i don't know how to make it happen..
all of my 'programing' is done via automator
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I'll have a crack at it... making use of DS_Store looks intriguing. if I have any joy I'll start a new post, call for testers/contributors. john
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Ruby itself has methods to create/move/copy/delete files (also a reason only to install trusted scripts). Since SketchUp's new API method can only install an rbz by just extracting whatever files were in the archive, the challenge is to keep track what files belong together.
Have you discovered what is coming soon? http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=344&t=38197
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@aerilius said:
Have you discovered what is coming soon? http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=344&t=38197
hmm.. nope
@unknownuser said:
You are not authorised to read this forum.
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@aerilius said:
Ruby itself has methods to create/move/copy/delete files (also a reason only to install trusted scripts).
can Ruby keep track of files/folders, i.e. is there a watch folder ruby that adds no overhead to SU, DS_Store is there already and can trigger external events only on Change. that's just my thought. no additional observers...
@unknownuser said:
Since SketchUp's new API method can only install an rbz by just extracting whatever files were in the archive, the challenge is to keep track what files belong together.
Adding load date to a remote list would keep track of what's being added or subtracted.@unknownuser said:
Have you discovered what is coming soon? http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=344&t=38197
I haven't had a huge amount of joy with this, even though it's written on a mac. It need to take on the new API changes next, then maybe...
john -
@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
You are not authorised to read this forum.
Understandable... you need a tux to be invited... john
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