RBZ as allowed extension
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@thomthom said:
What? They didn't add .zip to the list?
One can just type * in the file name text field, but then you've already defeated the purpose of making things easy and non-technical. x_XYou are right of course, BUT if users are so naïve that they can't currently extract some files/subfolders from a ZIP file and move them into their Plugins folder, then they are unlikely to have the sense necessary to think to type
*+<enter>to get to see ZIP files listed in the dialog [and everything else too***] AND of course whilst a RBZ is likely to contain only kosher plugin stuff that should be installed into the Plugins folder, a ZIP file could be total tosh, like someone's holiday-snaps, which will then be splattered all over the Plugins folder by the installer [which does have even less sense than the average user]; so this is hardly an improvement on the manual install method, where at least the user might manage to extract the ZIPped files into a temporary folder [named after the ZIP]... and then see the various files/subfolders before moving them into the Plugins folder - and if they looked like holiday-snaps etc, then even the dullest user might reconsider their actions...
***Selecting another file type will produce an error if it can't be unZIpped... BUT ANY ZIP file can be installed using your work around - which is potentially very messy to clean up ! In a way ONLY the RBZ files should be listed no matter what the user does when using the button-installer -
I guess it makes sense...
So, do we phase out .zip and start releasing .rbz?
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I think there will be an 'overlap' of ZIP and RBZ... as there will be many users who can't use RBZ as their SUp version won't have the button-installer for some time, if ever - unless they rename any RBZ as ZIP, and then we have gone full circle in expecting them to have a brain-cell or two...
So looks like we are going to have to continue with ZIPped sets and their instructions... AND as time goes by, more frequently RBZ sets and their own instructions - i.e. twice the work for no more pay [as 2x0=0!].In my opinion it would have been better not to have had the RBZ format at all [it offers few advantages after all], and simply to have used ZIP archives for the button-installer, BUT to have had some pre-installtion checking built into it - so it'd unZIP stuff into a temp-folder, check for .RB/.RBS files at the base-level [ALL plugins should have at least one such file there, otherwise they won't auto-install anyway!] and only then install it. That way the ZIPped sets would work for all users = while the users with the button-installer are mollycoddled, because they can't then mis-install a ZIpped set that way...
However, Google chose this obtuse RBZ route - which offers no obvious advantages to we scripters - just more [unpaid] effort... -
For the time being, it is obvious that the majority of the users still do not have the latest M2 installed so if you guys think just forget about the "possibility" here. If a user wants, can always rename the zip extension to rbz (although by default, Windows at least is set to hide known extensions so for many, it would be easier the other way round and rbz is not a known extension while zip is and many users won't be able to change it).
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@ Jim,
was the __MACOSX folder on your mac or PC?I just got this in Terminal... the shell is creating the folder.
%(#BF0080)[UpStairs-2:~ johns_iMac$ cd Downloads
UpStairs-2:Downloads johns_iMac$ unzip homer.rbz
Archive: homer.rbz
inflating: homer/.DS_Store
creating: __MACOSX/
creating: __MACOSX/homer/
inflating: __MACOSX/homer/._.DS_Store
inflating: homer/doh.wav
inflating: homer/homer.png
inflating: homer.rb] -
@driven said:
was the __MACOSX folder on your mac or PC?
It was on PC, but the most recent homer.rbz does not have it. I don't have a Mac that can run version 8.
> unzip -l homer.rbz Archive; homer.rbz Length Date Time Name -------- ---- ---- ---- 0 12-03-11 19;39 homer/ 5004 07-14-07 12;14 homer/doh.wav 1491 07-14-07 12;26 homer/homer.png 353 01-04-08 15;08 homer.rb -------- ------- 6848 4 files > -
@jim said:
There is no difference between a .rbz and a .zip. The .rbz is simply a renamed .zip. The .rbz just adds to the confusion, IMO.
TOTALLY AGREE w/ Jim !
I argued against using a new rb_ extension as presumptuous. The Ruby Core community could come out with some feature that uses a rbz file in the future... for some other purpose.
I advocate NOT using the "rbz" extension, at all !!
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BUT if you are going to use the 'Install Extensions...' button in Preferences at all you need to provide a RBZ file: it is possible to trick it into letting you install a ZIP by typing *+<enter>, but there are no checks that the ZIP archive contains .rb/.rbs files so any old tat can now be more easily installed.
At least with a RBZ format the user might have some confidence that the author has made a toolset archive that will work and not a ZIP of their holiday-photos...
I agree that a ZIP based installer that checked for at least one .rb/.rbs file in the base level of the ZIP was all that was needed... a RBZ is just a renamed ZIP with an illusion of quality-assurance. -
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@tig said:
At least with a RBZ format ...
"RBZ" is not a format.. ZIP is a format.
The problem is that the Google team boo-booed in not having the button show "rbz|zip" (ie, both extensions.) So it's really a bug (or an omission.)
The only REAL use of a new extension, would be for drag and drop install, where a new file type handler needs to be registered, and associated with sketchup.exe explicitly.
Even a parameter install from the command line option, ie:
%(#8000BF)[sketchup.exe -i %HOME%/Downloads/sometool.zip]
does not need a special extension (if it gets implemented in the future.)The world just does not need ANOTHER extension for a zipped archive file, given the limited functionality of v8M2.
I guess my point was that if we ignore it.. the GSUDT may get the idea we don't want it (and perhaps fix it in M3.)
Jim's little menu item works much better, and is easier to find.
@tig said:
At least with a RBZ format the user might have some confidence ...
Well.. maybe.. maybe not. At the most (right now,) it's only a weak "indication."
Anyway.. it's just as easy to rename the file from rbz to zip, as it is from zip to rbz.
On Windows, renaming is not even necessary.. you can just right-click a file and say "Open with..." (or if you use 7zip, or similar, it has a context submenu, with an "open archive" choice.)
SO.. I'm really more against doubling the space used on the server, than using the rbz extension. (I just wish it had begun with 'sk' perhaps "skzp" instead of beginning with a 'rb'.)
Q: Can ONE file on the server, be downloaded via TWO links, one saves locally with a ".zip" extension, the other with a ".rbz" ?? ... and the user chooses which one they want.
@Gaieus: How about making a poll in the Dev forum, and let the community vote ??
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fwiw, (or maybe just a reminder)…
.rbz isn't the first time google(sketchup) has made a new extension for a zip file..
it's the same thing they did with .style ..and i think for anyone other than a hardcore ruby
(but even then, i'm sure a lot/most of those people won't mind either),the name rbz makes perfect sense..
we have .rb .rbs (scrambled?), and .rbz - ruby zip.. -
@dan rathbun said:
Q: Can ONE file on the server, be downloaded via TWO links, one saves locally with a ".zip" extension, the other with a ".rbz" ?? ... and the user chooses which one they want.
I dunno. I cannot do it for sure.
@dan rathbun said:
@Gaieus: How about making a poll in the Dev forum, and let the community vote ??
About what? I have long been lost here. I just made possible to attach rbz extension - that's all.
(But actually you can also poll the development community...) -
@dan rathbun said:
"RBZ" is not a format.. ZIP is a format.
which means there is no need to host both.
@dan rathbun said:
Anyway.. it's just as easy to rename the file from rbz to zip, as it is from zip to rbz.
On Windows, renaming is not even necessary.. you can just right-click a file and say "Open with..." (or if you use 7zip, or similar, it has a context submenu, with an "open archive" choice.)
.zip and .rbz both open the easily on a mac, right click >> open with, and you can even have them both 'auto' open after download, if you want to set it up.
so, personally I think SCF and/or the ruby'ists should just change all current .zip extension to .rbz with grep find and replace, and do the same for all the download advice, then any one requiring manual or alternate installs, simply unzips the *.rbz and carries on as usual.
The current volume of *.rb & *.rbs currently around, all need to be wrapped in a .zip carrying their current name and the .rbz moniker.
I think it makes sense that if you want a SketchUp ruby it comes in an identifiable package, I can do a search for .rbz and find the entire set of 'unzipped' SU Plugins and reinstall the one I accidentally binned etc...
A script could clean the entire archive and add or remove the 'mac' file structure at the same time if desired.
I'm not volunteering to write the script, [maybe GSU team will do it for us]
I'm just thinking about moving on as it's done... we now have .rbz for SU plugins.john
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@driven said:
.zip and .rbz both open the easily on a mac, right click >> open with, and you can even have them both 'auto' open after download, if you want to set it up.
using what? i couldn't open a .rbz with Archive Utility.app (plus is buried a bit too deep for easy access though if it worked, i guess i could associate it with .rbz.. (MacHD/ System/ Library/ Core Services)
but if i try to unzip a .rbz with it, it actually archives(?) it into a .cpgz file..
point is, i don't think there's anything that comes with OS X to open them..
i was going to try to open one with stuffit expander which i suppose would do it but i forgot i never reinstalled that after installing lion.. i just never really liked stuffit so i went looking for something else and i found a real gem of an app..
it's called better zip..
http://macitbetter.com/that's gotta be the best archive utility available for mac users.. seriously, download and try some things out with it..
a couple of interesting things to note: you can drag/drop a .rbz (or whatever type of archive) onto it's window and see it's contents.. pull individual items out of it.. add new files to it.. all without unzipping the thing to begin with.. pretty sweet.but the thing i'm most hyped on is it allowed me to make my own plugin installer very easily (not really an installer per se but i'll call it that.).. it's a service that will show up in my context menu.. i.e.- Right click on an rbz then 'extract with BetterZip' which i have the following set as the behavior for the context menu:
it works very well and is much better than either manually installing or going through SUprefs->ext->install
i might make a separate post about this app in the future.. (i guess i'll use the 30 day trial and if i actually end up buying this thing, i'll make a post
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@gaieus said:
@dan rathbun said:
Q: Can ONE file on the server, be downloaded via TWO links, one saves locally with a ".zip" extension, the other with a ".rbz" ?? ... and the user chooses which one they want.
I dunno. I cannot do it for sure.
It's possible using .htaccess - though, not sure how SCF would be able to integrate it into the forum - least not for plugins only...
But it's something I will be doing for Vertex Tools and Bezier Surface which I serve from my own server. Two links which both points to the same binary - just the browser being served different filename.
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@unknownuser said:
using what?
@unknownuser said:
but if i try to unzip a .rbz with it, it actually archives(?) it into a .cpgz file..
point is, i don't think there's anything that comes with OS X to open them..the very first time before you open one, you need to use 'More Info' >> 'open with' >>../ path to Archive Utility
[/quote]If you do this once double clicking will open .rbz by default [unless you override it]
I also use the free 'The Unarchiver' it's on the App Store [but I get it direct] great for all those odd 'formats'.
http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/the-unarchiver/id425424353?mt=12I suppose I see the benefits in them not being 'too easy' to open, most mac users would never want to.
Download 'this_is_great.rbz' >> open SU >> Click rbzBUTTON... that's what's needed.
This is what we should be requesting, a rbzBUTTON,
the agument that it will over complicate the interface for non ruby users is a non stater.
You don't get the 'Plugins' Menu or 'Ruby Console' unless you want rubies, so, as part of that package, a rbzBUTTON could also be configured to 'load' a *.rbz or *.zip into earlier SU versions, running them in current session and also move the files at the same time for future use.This is what I think we and the GSUT should be looking into...
my 2.4 pence worth
john -
@driven said:
the very first time before you open one, you need to use 'More Info' >> 'open with' >>../ path to Archive Utility
If you do this once double clicking will open .rbz by default [unless you override it]
right.. tried all that.. tried all the different pref settings in archiveutility etc.. it won't open them.. it archives them into .cpgz files [and when i open the .cpgz file.. i get the original .rbz back].. this is on lion so i'm assuming apple has done something different with it.. archive utility simply won't unzip a .rbz on either of my computers.
@unknownuser said:
I suppose I see the benefits in them not being 'too easy' to open, most mac users would never want to.
thing is, we should want to because the devs are putting stuff in the zips that we shouldn't be putting in our plugins folders.. using projections.rb that i posted earlier itt as an example.. if i just 'install extensions' that as an rbz, i'll end up with the pdf and a read_me.txt in my plugins folder.. then i'll do it with another plugin which also has a readme in there and i'll now have a read_me 2 .txt... then 3.. and on and on.. the plugins folder is going to end up a mess..
then there are those plugins with win32 etc files in there that i don't want.. tig's mirror plugin for instance..@unknownuser said:
Download 'this_is_great.rbz' >> open SU >> Click rbzBUTTON... that's what's needed.
This is what we should be requesting, a rbzBUTTON,
the agument that it will over complicate the interface for non ruby users is a non stater.
You don't get the 'Plugins' Menu or 'Ruby Console' unless you want rubies, so, as part of that package, a rbzBUTTON could also be configured to 'load' a *.rbz or *.zip into earlier SU versions, running them in current session and also move the files at the same time for future use.This is what I think we and the GSUT should be looking into...
well, i already messed around with building a service in automator (which is in turn available through the sketchup menu so it can also be assigned as a shortcut key.. ) [but on lion, i had to add a step in the service which changed rbz to zip in order to open it]
it works ok but to me, it's kinda pointless because it still fails to give the option that we should have.. that is an uninstall option.. if i knew apple script, i could probably make it happen but i don't..
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I wrote a bash script that auto converts a copy of the rbz to zip 'with folders' for investigating, if it full of dross I can repackage and rezip as rbz, replacing the original. It needs some more work, but could run on multiple files at once.
To be honest individually, it's easier manually, once I set up Archive Utility... I should have tried that first, but when Jim mentioned shell scripts...
Removing from Plugins Folder from inside SU with automator/applescript or shell isn't hard, but any 'loaded' ruby won't go away until you restart SU.
I think I've got a snippet if your interested...
john
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yeah, i wasn't really talking about uninstalling and unloading from an active sketchup at the same time. (though that's what should be able to happen)
i'm basically thinking there should be a way to install a .rbz (say it has file1.rb, file2.pdf, file2.txt, and folder4) then all those file names are stored/associated with that particular plugin so if we choose to uninstall, we can easily trash everything that came in with the original .rbz.
i'm sure there are some 3rd party apps to do this but the option should be within sketchup itself.. i'm not sure how much of the 'install extensions' is exposed via the api but it seems like a ruby could be made for this purpose.. basically, two icons — install and uninstall.. clicking the install icon is basically the same as the 'install extensions' via su preferences except it takes note of what files actually went to the plugins folder.. clicking 'uninstall' brings up a list of what you've already installed and you can choose which plug ins to remove — and it deletes all files that came in with it during the install procedure... at the same time, unloading it from the current sketchup..
or is that impossible?
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Actually, have you ever looked at a .DS_Store file, they open in TextEdit.
When new Items are added to it, they could also be 'listed in sets' in a 'WebDialog' by writing that list to html.
Linking that html list to applescript folder actions would let you move stuff around..Pre-existing rubies and folders could be manually grouped in the wd, and could show as enabled or disabled depending on where you 'park' or append, the main ruby.
Anything added by 'Extension Manager' could be re-organised after the instal. i.e. dump the .dbthumbs etc... although that could be an auto folder action to remove those things.
that way your load button is just a shortcut to 'Extension Manager' and SU does it's stuff, but the remove button opens the 'webdialog' and lets you edit/disable/remove whatever you want by manipulating a single [per set] control item...
food for thoughthttp://www.tuaw.com/2009/03/26/applescript-exploring-the-power-of-folder-actions-part-iii/
john
john
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