A project I've been keeping in the background for a while until the client determined to push ahead.

So here just studying the form and massing - still a fair bit of design work to be realised.

I do love this scale model type renderings to display massing studies. Modelled in SU and exported to maxwell using both my own ultra low poly cars and wire trees as part of the entourage. Image combined in PS from two exports (physical sky and sky dome) to get better shadows!

The project is a mixed use (residential and commercial) I'm trying to slightly break the continuation of style between the two blocks so that the two blocks fit better the scale of the existing context and smaller massing as the immediate locality is currently in transition. It is hoped as the area becomes better established the discontinuity will become less obvious and the scale more inert!

Truly awesome stuff mate!! You truly are an artist in every aspect of it's meaning!!!!!

Seriously mate your work always inspires me at every level! You keep me wanting to do better and better!!!

I must say and not trying to get on the moral issue here, I think you managed to be rather restrained just enough to not raise the eye brows of those who may be insulted. Heck if I had done something similar I would be banned from the forums - my dreams are obviously a bit more explicit!!! . I'd have to download a demo of RealFlow!

Interested if you could give just a little bit of an overview of your workflow from SU to indigo animation, and then how you render out each frame?

@kobus said:

in the basecamp tutorial section there's a tip for this.
The essence is that you can make scenes without camera positions.
This way the scene tab behaves like a display mode.
Per tab you retain full control over displayed layers and such, as mentioned by earlier posts.
Good luck !

I use scenes a lot to manage layers. I actually use then to turn layers off and wireframe the view in large models to assist in navigating then shortcut or next scene tab to turn back on. for Camera views when exporting to render I actaully use two scenes - the first to set camera location and the second to set all layers on!

Another trick I use a lot with very large models say where I am adjust plant layout in a specific location or when working ob heavy geometry is to drag select any items or geometry where i want to work in detail shortcut to group, double click to edit this new group and hide rest of model, I then after editing explode that newly made group! I would say this is possibly one of my mostly used workflows to speed up modelling! Though shortcuts are essential to speeding this, but aren't they essential for all modelling anyway!

It was interesting some years ago a long time SU user suggested to me that trying to remember shortcuts to save seconds a day was a waste of effort. I would have to say good workflow using shortcuts could save as much as 5-6 hours in 8 hours of modelling!

@kevsterman said:

Absolutely fantastic stuff as always Pete. I especially like the playroom chair. However it looks as though its made of hard plastic. Good for wiping away those accidental 'spills' but maybe not so comfortable to jump around on. Maybe a leather finish would be more appropriate?

Sorry, it doesn't seem right giving criticism to one of the SU masters

I felt a bit like that too, though I think the better we are the more we realise any room for improvement! I think pete seems mature and confident enough to not take offence to suggestion but to crave for it!

@plot-paris said:

I think this thread has been jacked some posts ago, hasn't it?

Hmmmm? Think your right there! Well at least it's useful discussion!!!

FRYRENDER (new kid)!

Just thought I'd mention it again! Are we back on track?

@whaat said:

Well..this feature has already been implemented in the latest SkIndigo beta (1.1.5). All that's missing is a tutorial on how to effectively use it.

I should add and not sure this is the full functionality of the new changes in 1.1.5? As you suggested earlier I only use the low res map for placement then link to the Maxwell material with the full res map!!!!!!

@unknownuser said:

It has been requested many times for Onosendai to implement a small 'render preview' window similar to Fryrender and Maxwell. I have little doubt that he will eventually add this. In the meantime, there are many ways to confirm materials that are quite fast. For example:

• Use the material preview scenes - the sphere scene is clean in only a few seconds - you can also render multiple previews using different settings at the same time (how's that for efficiency? )
• Region rendering (select a small window of the scene and render that portion only)
• Selection rendering (render only the objects that you have selected)
• Render lower resolution
• Try a different render method - For example, outdoor scenes with lots of direct light will be clean VERY fast if you use simple Path Tracing (as opposed to MLT). I have a feeling that Maxwell uses path tracing which might exlain why the image is initially fairly clean but then takes quite long for 'final convergence'.

Mate I'm not so much suggesting the small preview window as used by maxwell - which is really only of use for lighting settings but the full size render! Yes Maxwell could use some magic to clean the render early certainly - can't confirm that at all!

I will try and test some of your other suggestions!!!! I can see value of the low res or path trace methods, I normally export to maxwell one or two test renders from SU so I can see all materials in scene and then make any required adjustments to all materials prior to final export. With lights off for exteriors these clean quickly and cleanly enough early to see what changes are needed. If the path trace method provides this work around that is a great alternative!!!!!

@unknownuser said:

Thanks for the compliments and the crits, mate!

Are any thrown your way capable of covering the work you have done in furthering the application of SU - not nearly!!!!

@whaat said:

@richard said:

I must say the all maps in scene issue of indigo was what I've found to be my biggest bug bear with it. For most brickworks for example I use 3 diffuse maps and one bump map and for many other materials I use more than one diffuse so my material browser in SU goes WOE!!!!

So...if I were to 'fix' this than I could convert you to Indigo once and for all???

If I understand you correctly, you have to manually create a low-rez version of your texture in order to do the UV mapping in SketchUp. Then, you just 'link' to the MXM material using the plugin, right? Or is there another step?

Whaat - yes mate that is the workflow regarding the use of lowres images. I open the large map in PS and using the "save for Web" function save the image out at the same pixel dimension but at lower image quality. This allows the UV's and scale to be set correctly.

In regards to adoption of Indigo to workflow. I must say so many functions of Indigo are second to nothing else out there (HDRI positioning for example)! I think the blended materials for me personally isn't working currently I believe due to this aiming to all be achieved inside SU - I just can't see this will ever work! Some may have a handle on it but it's still a lot of work! Though for examples like your tut with the graffiti wall it has some very destinct advantages! ie where non commonly sized maps can be accurately located!!!!!

Mate I did suggest the multiple maps having to be in model is an issue the other big one for me is Indigo's pace at initial clean up of the rendering - this means although the final render is of great quality one has to wait initially a considerable time for the render to clean sufficiently to confirm materials etc are on target. I would suggest within 5-10minutes maxwell gives enough clean up to assess the materials, Indigo seems for me to be over an hour for the same scene although final clean up times can be similar!!! This can mean unless the material outcome is well understood quick material testing by export is somewhat hindered.

BTW I have very little doubt that Indigo will become the industry leader as time progresses given as Plot suggests your listening and implementing!!!

Cheers mate! Richard

@plot-paris said:

so the perfect solution for a SU plugin of a render engine (no matter which) would be to:

• store the material information externally
• automatically import a lo-res image (perhaps even baked) of the material to SketchUp, when loaded
• direct control of material attributes within SketchUp - changes affect the externally saved material-file.
  [Edit]or information of changes are saved in the SU file (attatched to the SU-material, but can be applied to the external material-file, if needed. thus you can have a library of mats that will never be changed, but you can still do indivitual changes within every model...

I think that is pretty much the positive aspects of the different approaches combined. and it would mean the easiest workflow ever for rendering!

Mate!!!!!!!

I think you just hit the perfect SU user prefered workflow on the head!!!!

I certainly one who likes the ability to save and access commonly used materials for later use and certainly not use large scale maps in the model. and certainly like the external referencing of materials, I will often have more than one material using the same map in SU - for example I may have a few types of brickwork for which I position the bump map and add colour (say bright green) in SU and link it to the maxwell material of choice - then make another material
with the same map and again colour it (say bright blue) in SU and again liknk this to another maxwell brick material of choice. This allows me to quickly test various material options just by relinking the SU map to another material.

All that said - one of my loves of Indigo is the option to colour edit maps in SU and they are exported to render holding the SU colour editing. I know this sounds like I want the best of both worlds!!!! Yep!!!!

I think that is where both systems break down - options for workflow!!!!!

I think the ideal workflow would be the option to externally link materials and those not linked holding any colour editing from SU. However it would be great if SU did possess better image editing options.

One of the key upgrades recently to the current version of Maxwell's material editor is the ability to adjust the saturation, contrast and brightness of maps. This allows a single map to be better used in the reflection, specularity and bump channels. One map for all and all handled by the editor!

@zapwizard said:

First off, long time forum lurker...but long time sketchup user.

I am very interested in getting a SketchUp to SandBox2 (Crysis) converter working.

If anyone is interested you can convert easy enough from SketchUp in to SandBox2 using XSI ModTool as a in-between.
SandBox2 is free with the Crysis demo (Although you get more with the real-game)
SketchUp free version can be used with the XSI ModTool using Google Earth 4 KMZ files.
And XSI ModTool is free.

I have used SketchUp a few times to bring in basic custom objects into the popular map I made in Crysis.

Text:

Flashlight:

HDTV:
http://www.crymod.com/thread.php?threadid=19058

I have a (Very) basic how-to here:
http://www.crymod.com/thread.php?postid=178946#post178946

Wow mate that is some great stuff!!!

I have to ask is the first island image from a game engine or rendered from elsewhere! All this new game engine speak is completely new to me and I'm not really absorbing it at all. Though I'm listening in to see if amongst my confusion get some hold on it!

@jenujacob said:

@kwistenbiebel said:

Oh yeah....The 'purge unused' function is off limit when using Indigo

i usually paint the bump/clip map etc on to the reverse side of the face.. thereby i can easily purge unused items off my model!

Now that is clever!!!!!!

It could actually be an idea for Indigo users to set up a grid tiled plane using the sandbox from grid option, then all used materials could be painted to it and then placed on a hidden layer for export.

I know when I first started using Maxwell in the beta days materials needed to be created internal to SU then I used a similar method to what I'm suggesting to make a tile of material an saved it as a component or group. I could then drag this into scene and model up off it to maintain the material properties to all new geometry. It worked well.

Plot:

Mate I'm not quite sure about how SU reduces materials though I know if I bring in a 2Mb texture the SU file seems to grow about the same size! I actually push the low res images used for painting in my model way way down in size and it really helps to reduce the hang caused by the material browser when painting.

BTW I totally agree with you in regards to Whaat's development of the Indigo plugin! At the same I have much similar admiration for Pavol's development of the Maxwell plugin. Both have achieved amazing work, although Pavol isn't around these forums he is ever present on the Maxwell>SU forum and listens well to user feedback. That said and in great respect of Whaat - he manages to generally answer users needs well before users can even think of them!!!

@plot-paris said:

especially when you absentmindedly purge unused materials (which deletes them, because they are not actually assigned to any material)

I bet you only did that once!!!!!

Ok I understand what you mean there!!! I must say I'm personally glad of the current workflow of the material not being replaced as I rarely use the diffuse map from the maxwell material. I have a low res image of most maxwell materials that I place in SU to ensure better performance and stop SU bogging with heavy textures!

I must say the all maps in scene issue of indigo was what I've found to be my biggest bug bear with it. For most brickworks for example I use 3 diffuse maps and one bump map and for many other materials I use more than one diffuse so my material browser in SU goes WOE!!!!

BTW Luxrender lux good!!!!

693!!!!

@plot-paris said:

what I didn't like about maxwell (don't know if it changed by now) is that you do not have a representation of an imported maxwell material in SketchUp; meaning that if you apply a material to a model, then link a maxwell material to it, you do not see this linked texture on the SketchUp model. in order to get the UVs right, you have to import the diffuse map to the material manually.
if I import an indigo material however, the dif map is applied to the model automatically.

hmmm? not quite sure I understand that exactly! I know from my experiences with Indigo they seem to work very much the same excepting that I must have all materials used in the indigo material in the SU browser! As opposed to the Maxwell method of only one map needing to be imported. This can weight models fairly heavily.

I'm not sure at all how you are getting a material to apply to your model without painting it on to the required surfaces and then setting the UV's manually?

Great image mate!

Though there is something strange happening in the open window??? I might suggest dis-cluttering the desk a bit too!

Something else I notice about many kerthy renders too is I think most users make whites too white! Your air conditioner is for my liking way too white!

Keep them coming mate! Richard

@unknownuser said:

Too bad, really, that neither Fry of Maxwell has SkIndigo's intuitive approach to material editing. That's where both apps, imho, really fall short in accomodating SU users.

Hmmmm? I would strongly suggest the opposite - the blended material setup with Indigo for me follows nothing toward a intuitive approach. When Maxwell was in beta it relied upon all material setup being done directly in SU and the best decision they made IMHO was to introduce a standalone material editor!

I have the larger wacom intous3 model and it makes a great place to put my coffee with the surface being easier to clean over my desktop!!! Other than that it just takes up desk space!

@plot-paris said:

wow. this is one of the best powerpoint presentations I have ever seen. I liked everything about it - the slow pace and smooth transitions, the navigation buttons, that are not necessary to view the show, but give you advanced control, the relaxing music

and your renders are very impressive.

well done Richard, and thanks a lot for sharing

Thanks a lot Plot!!!

I actually find the lay person feels it to be incredibly slow! They just want the action where you and I obviously want to view the design and vis work in more detail.

I must admit again this was my first play with powerpoint and was really impressed at the ease of compiling the animation. It is just a shame SWF format isn't exportable from PowerPoint as it really is so much more user friendly to use than flash!

Thanks again for checking it out and commenting plot!!!!

Cheers, Richard

@plot-paris said:

I don't know anything about flash (my own feeble attempts lay years back in the past).

I hope you didn't get me wrong. I liked the fact thet something was moving in the images (gives the whole thing dynamic). but it would have been even better if these circles surved a purpose, because at the moment they are solely decoration (nice decoration of course )

perhaps these circles may give a slightly transparent glimpse of the next image, as if they are cutting through the present one and give you the oportunity to look through on the picture below. may be too distracting though

Thank plot! Yes I think I'll just play with the transparency of the circles. I do like that they tie in with the intro and the watermark of the hard copy catalogue prepared for them!

CraigD

Mate I'm sincerely glad you are listening in on this thread and hearing what is said! And sorry I'm going to give you a bit more to read here.

I don't know why but feel I need to give some of my own history to back up my cause?:

I started working with SU when i bought my first computer in the days of version 3 and quickly found it suited my limited tech skills - at that time with the limited user base my output gained some notoriety (spelling bad sorry) and Mike (Mayor) Lucey got me invited on to the beta team. from there I got invited onto the beta team for Artlantis R and Studio. And since to the Maxwell Beta team due to my contribution to learning and skills gained in rendering!

I mention all this because although I think I have well recognised skills in SU I can't get anythinh out of any other modeller simply because I'm techno DUMB!!!!!!! Heck I bought AutoCAD lite then too and can't even draw a line!! So this is to support your argument that SU really is very simple to use!!!!!

All this said I can see some very inherant reasons why some may not find SU the ultimate tool of choice!!! And to agree whole heartedly with Pete why the warehouse for me is a bit of a white elephant - sorry!!!!!

I'll list my reasons so to make them clear and I might even try to get away with some harsh language too!!!!

SKETCHUP:

1. Poly count poly count poly count! It is obvious to look through the gallery here that rendering from SU to external apps is growing at an expediated rate. With the ease and availability of render apps clients have higher expectations and users are introducing this to their workflows to keep pace. SU's inherant issues of dealing with high poly models and scenes requires users to create work arounds to overcome - workarounds are just the first hint that something is wrong!

2. Texture mapping! SU limited texturing tools are getting more and more attention as the user base and fields of use increase again the user preference to render output highlights these limitations...

3. Import Compatability! tons of good content for the 3d industry is available out there free or in collections yet the import capabilities of SU for good 3DS, OBJ etc are a real downfall here, so much clean up or remapping is required to make much of this content usable. Poly crunching external to SU is also often a must due to the before mentioned poly limitations.

4. Illumination! I know and to some degree support the idea that SU is only aimed at being a modeller not for rendered tours etc but a growing expectation to export to game engines and the like to permit better environment for view shows this to be an underlying issue and possibly one of the main reasons 3d Max maintains much of this market.

5. Viewing options! I normally aim to do all my scene compliation in SU for obvious reasons though when polycount becomes an issue I'm forced into Maxwell Studio - although component or object placement is hindered somewhat I find the ability to view placement in more than one camera view sometimes an absolute god sent. Something I wish was optional in SU would be the ability to view more than one scene window at a time.

3D WAREHOUSE

1. Model consistancy! As Pete inferred I see a real issue with the warehouse around consistancy where any search will bring up so many varied quality models and one doesn't know till opening it up.

2. Lost! probably the same as above but as suggested earlier Good High Poly models are required for good render export and many of the models (may in fact most) are not useable for export to render.

3. Separation! I feel separartion of the warehouse content would be a worthwhile endeavour! One warehouse level for the weekend hackers and one for good professional level content where the user or their contributions need to have proven levels of quality - possibly even a "Certified User" registry or something akin to that. manufacturer's content to make it to this level may also need to comply! I look at something I downloaded the other day a Whirlpool Cooktop - nothing more than an image plane with nobs - what use is that for anyone! Whirlpool probably paid someone to do that without the knowledge the resulting model would be unusable!

Generally I'm not sure a rating system works - I've seen high rated models on the warehouse that when opened are pretty crooke! I'm not sure who voted and what are the aspects on which people are voting. i look at the voting of threads on the PushPullBar - threads are often voted on based on the image quality or the quality of the design but for me I vote on the quality of the thread content which could be based on the arguments raised and what value therefore the thread had to me!

I think therefore some other way of distinguishing good content from bad is essential - afterall the content on the warehouse continues to grow and as a result more and more any quality content will continue to be lost amongst the hoards of substandard models.

I hope I didn't loose you or sound too harsh!

Regards Richard

I have to agree with mike!!! Completely new style and refreshing! Like marked001 suggests very suited to the context, playful love it! Might like to see the shadows darkened just a bit to add bit more depth and better separation. In some foregrounds the images become just a little too flat particularly around the peeps and rocks!!!

REALLY GOOD STUFF MATE!!!!!!!

Anyone who visits the PPB may have seen this already!

This is a portfolio of visualisation works I put together for myself some times ago using PowerPoint. the unfortumate thing is that when viewed on older machines it tends to go a bit clunky on transitions and text generation.

I must say I found powerpoint fairly easy to work with - this was my first (well and only since) play with Powerpoint, it tokk about 5-6 hours to learn on the fly and put this together at the same time!

http://www.mediafire.com/?on3wkmut53y