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Yay!!!
I'll tell you what I really hate most is the name "SketchUp 2013" -- what in the world was wrong with SketchUp 9?
As far as I can see this is some transparent ploy at style-based planned obsolescence via naming. Way to follow the herd Trimble, if you can't innovate then change the name... that always works.
But I've been griping about that since they announced it -- so nothing new to see here.
Best,
Jason.
@chrisc said:
Maybe this faq is clearer:
http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000020If I skip upgrading to 2013 and upgrade to 2014 instead, will I have to purchase a brand new, full price license?
No, worst case scenario would be upgrade cost of $95, plus nominal support reinstatement fee (TBD, but will be some percent less than $95). We will update this FAQ as soon as we know more about specific costs.
Look Chris, I don't know you so this isn't personal -- but how can you say this with a straight face?
I mean really, somehow it is supposed to be OK that you are going to partial bill for an "update" and "support plan" that the user doesn't even get to use? Meaning if you opt to skip, you are still on the hook for part of that money you would have spent had you upgraded now.
Let's be honest here -- where is your (a general shout to Trimble here) pride in your craftsmanship? You create software, if your software is not worth upgrading that is your fault, not the fault of the consumer. You should bear the financial burden of that failure, not the consumer.
[rant] I'll tell you these software companies are really getting quite full of themselves -- do they not notice the open source revolution? All they are doing is pushing people away with these heavy handed tactics to try to compensate for their own lack of quality craftsmanship. [/rant]
Best,
Jason.
@chrisc said:
What happens if I decide to skip a year in this program?
SketchUp Pro commercial licenses never expire, so skipping a year of the program doesn’t affect your use of SketchUp Pro at all. However, if you do decide to skip a year, you can expect a modest reinstatement fee should you choose to renew your upgrade, maintenance, and support program.
Do away with the "reinstatement fee" and I think you'd find a lot of people less resistant to the changes (not me, but many others).
Why should such a fee even be necessary in the first place? It is nothing more than a negative "incentive" -- meaning, "since I can't entice you with this crappy carrot, I'll kick you with these spurs to force you to move".
Make a better carrot and we could be going somewhere. Then such negative "incentives" would be redundant.
Best,
Jason.
@thomthom said:
@emerald15 said:
no... not for spelling in SU - I want to be able to check the annotations I add to my plans in LO
Good idea. I've not used Layout much so I rarely need to deal with much text. But spell-checker is always welcome.
I agree what a fine addition that would make... BTW I've said it elsewhere I'm a a big fan of Layout, and I will give "darling" full credit for that.
As for tact, my wife had always said "it's not what you say, but how you say it that turns people off" -- however she has recently amended that to "it's what you say". Somehow I feel more gratified by that... I would rather be clearly understood and hated, rather than misunderstood and loved.
Best,
Jason.
@frederik said:
To some extend I - surprisingly - do understand your argument here...
However... If I felt that something I represented was moving in the opposite direction as to where my passion is, I'd need to take my clothes and step away...
(in other words, I'd return my badge...)
I've never said I think SketchUcation is going in the wrong direction -- quite the contrary. I point people towards SketchUcation whenever possible, and make sure to point out that this is the best asset SketchUp has going for it. If you are a power user of SketchUp you should be at SketchUcation... period.
The only reason I would want to leave is if I felt I was being an undue bad influence -- which I do not believe. If anything I am attempting to add focus and clarity to the displeasure many are feeling about these last few "updates". I want the faults to be clearly understood, the options to be thoroughly (and openly) discussed, and the blame to be placed where I think it should.
Not much has changed between the mismanagement of SketchUp under Google and the mismanagement of SketchUp under Trimble -- what has been constant is the leadership of "darling". So I think it should be obvious that the problem is/was neither Google or Trimble but "darling". It could be that he lacks conviction to stand up to the higher-ups -- but based on the things he has said, I tend to think the problem lies within his actual viewpoints themselves.
Best,
Jason.
@frederik said:
@jason_maranto said:
This is the reason I turned down the "Top SketchUcator" position when I was offered it last year -- if I were in a position of representing SketchUcation I would not feel free to be this honest.
What a ridiculous argument...
Just because I'm a Top Sketchucator, it absolutely does not mean that I can't speak my mind...
If someone feel I'm too open in whatever I express, they are welcome to revoke my TS badge...It's called freedom of speech...
Perhaps I simply see the responsibility differently than you -- to me I would not want to do anything to undermine this community, or cause problems for the fine people who run it, as long as it could be said I am somehow representing them.
@frederik said:
@jason_maranto said:
I am trying to apply external pressure.
And you'll soon see that you'll fail...
Perhaps.
I have alot of time and some money invested in SketchUp -- I do like the many good things about this program... most of which were in place from the @last regime. I would love nothing better than to see a SketchUp update come out that I could be enthusiastically behind and promote as faithfully as I have in the past.
Maybe you don't know this, but I have been a staunch defender and promoter of SketchUp in many ways up till recently -- I decided that that approach was getting me nowhere. Will this approach get more results? maybe not -- but it cannot achieve less results.
Best,
Jason.
Actually "darling" may be even more funny -- I'm good with it 
Best,
Jason.
@rich o brien said:
The only thing that irks me in your posts is that you refer to someone by their surname. For some reason that really pisses me off?
I'm not sure how it is over there, but John is an incredibly common first name here -- so in order to make it clear who I am targeting I use his surname.
Best,
Jason.
@frederik said:
You obviously don't like the smell here, so I fail to understand why you're still here...
@jason_maranto said:
However I always hope against hope that I will become such an foul irritant, and Bacus will be so put out, that he will actually do something productive with SketchUp just to shut me up.
There is your answer -- otherwise I have no real purpose here... I hope I am irritating Bacus as much as I am irritating you.
This is the reason I turned down the "Top SketchUcator" position when I was offered it last year -- if I were in a position of representing SketchUcation I would not feel free to be this honest. But since I represent nobody but myself I can act in whatever suits my ends... you may try to work within the system for change, I am trying to apply external pressure.
Best,
Jason.
@mike lucey said:
I've been reading / following all the posts made on this topic and feel that most of the steam has now blown off. Regardless of what one thinks or doesn't think about SU 2013, I feel there is no excuse for your, what appears to me, personal attack on John Bacus.
Long post and certainly alot to digest so let me reciprocate.
First off, let my say clearly I left here after those last posts and never came back until 2013 was released... and I only came back to make it absolutely crystal clear that this release was deficient. You can check the forum logs if you like to verify this as fact.
John Bacus is the head -- ultimately he is the one responsible for everything that the SketchUp team does or does not do do... when things go well he deserved credit, when things go wrong he deserves blame.
When a company goes down the tubes it is expected that a CEO gets fired or steps down -- this is no different. I'm sure Bacus is a very nice guy with alot of really endearing qualities -- but he has proven an incompetent leader of the SketchUp team at the very least.
There are alot of people here with ulterior motives to stay on his good side, it is of personal and professional benefit to them that he, being the man in power, see them as "on his side". I have no such limitation -- so I am free, in all the ways you are not, to voice my 100% honest opinions. I actually expected to be banned by now... I can't imagine Bacus is happy about some guy on the forums calling, repeated and clearly, for his head
I've always been 100% for forcing users to move to Pro -- check the posts and verify the facts. But there is a right way and a wrong way to do this. The right way is to make the upgrade to Pro so compelling that users cannot resists opening their wallets. This is done by adding actual features and really honoring the desires of the users base. The wrong way is what we got -- judge for yourself.
I'm not opposed to spending real money on my applications, provided they are worthwhile -- SketchUp is not and has not been worthwhile for a long time now. Are there perfect alternatives? Not really, but those alternatives will never have the chance to fully materialize as long as people keep throwing good money after bad towards SketchUp.
To be perfectly blunt I would have rather see SketchUp die at this point and have the market forced to move onto alternatives now, rather than wait years only to have the process be that much harder in the long run. Not a popular sentiment here, I know -- but I'm not here to win any friends, and I don't care a whit if I make enemies. However I always hope against hope that I will become such an foul irritant, and Bacus will be so put out, that he will actually do something productive with SketchUp just to shut me up.
Best,
Jason.
So if I understand the theory correctly this is Sketchup "Pro" as "SketchUp Basic"(vanilla) -- which would then be extended via Trimble developed scripts put on the "warehouse"... and I suppose those extensions would all be free? If not, what extra costs are we talking here?
Because $95 per year already eclipses the upgrade costs for previous versions of SketchUp Pro by a margin of 2:1... any additional costs would sweeten the deal just that much more. 
Best,
Jason.
@archheni said:
From http://www.formz.com/support/faqs.html:
"On Windows 64, you can access 4 GB of RAM with the 32 bit version of form·Z, or up to 128 GB RAM with the 64 bit version. With OSX, form·Z versions 4.0 and later can access 4 GB RAM.."
This doesn't sound like 64bit to me on OSX..
OSX is a problem for many developers to convert to 64-bit -- so I'm hardly holding that against them. Clearly Windows users, who comprise the vast majority, will benefit from 64-bit right now by a switch, whereas SketchUp may never make that leap.
I never recommended Modo here -- I simply said that was what I will most likely switch to... I have always tried to make it abundantly clear that I am not an architect. Furthermore, I clearly have stated I recommend bonzai3d or form.z for that use (for anybody who is interested in switching).
I do find it so tiresome that people keep wanting to twist things to somehow prop up SketchUp -- It should not need you to defend it, if it was truly a worthwhile upgrade then it would be obvious. The fact that you feel the need to do so speaks volumes about the weakness of SketchUp... at this point it is (and has been) a dying program that is being completely kept alive (read as "relevant") solely through the efforts of a devoted community.
Best,
Jason.
Absolutely correct -- and I'll go one step further and say that if it were not for one particular ruby developer I would have left SketchUp long ago: Fredo6.
Take his plugins out and SketchUp loses a huge amount of modeling power.
Best,
Jason.
For the record form.z is (and always was) an architectural modeler first and foremost -- however due to it's fine modelling tools it can do almost anything... however it would not be my first choice for figure work. It is also currently 64-bit... I do wish people would check facts before posting false statements just to try to prop up SketchUp.
As I said before, it(form.z) has it's faults... and it's not even my likely replacement for SketchUp. For my needs Modo is likely the software I will move to, however I acknowledge that Modo is a bit more powerful and complex than the average SketchUp user would want or need.
I was asked what software I though could easily replace SketchUp for architectural work, and form.z (or bonzai3d) would be my pick if coming from that POV.
Obviously, if you are very tied into SketchUp via paid plugins then it will be hard to move. However if you are one of the many former free-version users who are now looking to pay $595 for a software that really isn't worth it, and want an alternate option I would recommend checking bonzai3d (and form.z). At $100 less it has more power and the company is growing the tool at a much faster rate than Trimble is growing SketchUp. The workflow is very similar, and the modeling tools are much more powerful... so I think that is a valid recommendation.
If you are really open to new options I would also recommend checking Rhino, MoI3D and Blender. Each have great strengths and all are more worthwhile to invest your time and money into if you are now looking at a $595 (+ $95 each year) bill just to use the same SketchUp you were using for free.
If you are really tied to keeping your workflow free then you should absolutely make the switch to Blender and never look back.
Best,
Jason.
@krisidious said:
I see nothing that excites me and especially nothing that makes me want to spend $1000.00 and learn a new program.
So will we see you visit the SU 2014 Wish list to tell us what is missing that is so crucial?
Well, that falls under the heading of "your mileage may vary" -- the tools are there, and of course they are not going to be as comprehensive as a dedicated 3rd party solution. I don't see solids as being a bad thing, but you do... so we will just have to disagree.
As for SketchUp wish lists, I wasted my time with this while I was teaching tutorial videos for SketchUp 7 and 8... I have no more energy or time to waste with Bacus.
I'm here mostly because I have had a presence here for a while and, while I don't like the way the program has developed, I do value the community that sprang up around it. If there is any true asset that SketchUp has that cannot be matched it is that -- however they are endangering that as well now.
Best,
Jason.
@krisidious said:
"Dynamic Roof, Doors, Windows,"
I see nothing about any of that. all I see is some automatic stairs of which spiral is not included.
Again I refer to the documentation http://www.formz.com/manuals/formz7/!SSL!/WebHelp/formz7.php
Look under specialty tools and you will see spiral staircases.
Really, how long are you going to keep putting your foot in your mouth? I'm starting to feel like a bully here...
Best,
Jason.
@krisidious said:
I'm shallow? So then why are you still here? And I take you have no answers for those questions and I would like to see these architectural plugins that they have built in. Like making roofs, making driveways with curbs, doing my framing and such.
Yes, completely shallow -- and your questions show that clearly. Dynamic Roofs, Doors, Windows, Staircases are just some of the truly fantastic built-in tools specifically for Architectural modeling.
It doesn't need a huge API because practically everything you might need is already built-in.
Instead of getting defensive why not try to educate yourself? Don't get me wrong there are flaws there as well, but they are flaws I find much more agreeable... you mileage may vary (and given our conversation thus far I can guarantee it will).
Best,
Jason.
@krisidious said:
I download what slick advertising shows me is worth my time. I don't see anything there that impresses me in the least. one screen shot of a drafting detail that frankly looks quite messy... No words about hatching, 2D detail cataloging, architectural dimension tools and standards. I have an entire process for doing my job in SketchUp and I just migrated that from Autocad in the last year. It took years for me to finally feel comfortable enough to move over. Many drafting programs have come and gone in the years I've been in this industry, none ever beat Autocad. If something is going to get me away from SU now, it's going to have to try harder. If it were some free community built development I might show more interest but big prices and a learning curve for what?
I mean, what is it that SU needs sooo desperately? That is worth that kind of money? Are there 10 Architecture Plugins that make my life infinitely easier like SU? Does Andersen Windows have a plugin for it that gives me components with model numbers? does it have estimation plugins with it? Can I go to google earth and bring in Topo info with it?
That is terribly shallow, but since you are so convinced there not much to say other than, yes it can do pretty much everything all the plugins for SketchUp (free or otherwise) can do -- all built in, and then it is extensible just like SketchUp so you could add custom plugins you want.
If you are happy with the status quo, great -- I don't really care for the status quo, and somebody asked questions regarding options... your ignorance caused you to walk into a bad situation where you are highly underinformed. That's not my fault, nor is your shallow approach... but SketchUp definitely benefits, I'm sure they are counting on sheeple just like you to not rock the boat.
Best,
Jason.
Try under http://www.formz.com/products/formz/formzFeatures.php "drafting module" -- or better yet download a demo and try it yourself.
Then, if you want to know more, try the documentation http://www.formz.com/manuals/formz7/!SSL!/WebHelp/formz7.php and look at the "Layout" section.
I'd rather have good tools than slick marketing.
Best,
Jason.
@krisidious said:
You're comparing Sketchup to things it was never supposed to be and whatsmore those things cannot build a set of construction documents for a structure. For pure modelers that are only interested in making games, movies or renders and especially organics then those programs are great, for designing, building in 3D and then documenting for construction they can't compete.
False.
Obviously you have not been following form.z, but they are pretty far along on their own built in version of "Layout"-style construction drawings.
Yes, it is more expensive than SketchUp Pro at $910 USD (through a 3rd party, checked earlier today), but the features don't even compare... form.z is light years ahead of SketchUp in most ways and catching up rapidly in the few ways it's not (Layout)... whats more, they actually give a crap. I know that's a novel feature that SketchUp users are not used to having access to, but believe me it is worth the price of admission for that alone.
Best,
Jason.
