Probably the easiest transition would be to the (cheaper than SketchUp Pro) bonzai3d -- or per my preference for more advanced modeling tools, form.Z. Both are Mac compatible and they have made alot of effort to mimic much of what has made SketchUp easy to learn/use... after using both for a while I found that, after you get over the learning curve, the extra power is very apparent. Also, unlike SketchUp they have a highly responsive approach to dealing with bugs and feature request through their forum. It's not perfect, but it's equal to SketchUp in most ways and better in many others.

Other options worth noting are Rhino, MoI3D and Blender...

Best,
Jason.

@frv said:

This is what Hitler said about the Adobe license change recently;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=67Iw9q2X9cU

So, whatever the rage I am expecting most here will upgrade, and the cost for a pro upgrade is rather "manageable".

That video is hilarious -- however I am one who has dropped Adobe like dead weight -- and have replaced the programs I used with open source alternatives when possible, and commercial alternatives otherwise... and that includes programs they make that are not even in the "Creative Cloud".

Nobody is so good they are irreplaceable... nobody. Furthermore, SketchUp is so far from that mythical position as to be laughable to even suggest it is... Photoshop by comparison was many orders of magnitudes harder for me to give up.

I HATE software companies that abuse the trust of the user -- this is why I refuse to use any Autodesk product for any reason... Adobe and Trimble are on that list now as well.

Best,
Jason.

I'm not sure why anybody would want to "cut them slack" -- after 32 months(almost 1000 days) of development this is the best they could do.

Anybody who thinks this is good enough is not paying attention to the pace of development in other packages -- I've seen many point updates (free) in other softwares that have more (and better) features added than this "major" upgrade.

Do you honestly think that 12 months from now they will have accomplished enough to justify the next round of wasted money?

The writing is on the wall -- time to move on, and I'll tell anybody who will listen the same thing.

Best,
Jason.

I heard about this release on the Maxwell forum and decided to come by to see exactly how bad it actually was -- and it's actually worse than I expected... that's hilarious. I especially like to see the people desperately trying to find something to be enthusiastic about... you've been trolled by Trimble, time to move on.

This is may be the worst full version update I've seen yet -- the licensing is a joke and I am now %100 convinced to give my money to another software company and never look back again.

If I hear at some point that Bacus is fired I may take a look at SketchUp again (unlikely though), until then have fun paying for this joke

Best,
Jason.

I wasn't referring to any advantages of 64-bit in regards to viewport rendering (which is open GL/video card based) -- there are several competing points being argued here, of which 64-bit is only one small part.

Also, I have said repeatedly (elsewhere) I already do use several other 3D modeling packages (subD, Sculpting, etc.) -- it's not any mystery to me how the other parts of the 3D world live.

I know few people here know much about me, but I do get tired of repeated shooting down the same arguments... I dislike repeating myself, and this conversation has become almost entirely repetitive at this point -- So I'm going to bow out.

I've said what I've said -- I meant it all, and nobody has convinced me otherwise... so I'll let that stand.

Best,
Jason.

So does my best friend -- and he's a step-child as well, so he gets indignant when I use that phrase...

Best,
Jason.

I could put it another way -- do you know that of all the modeling platforms Maxwell supports with plugins (15 and counting) Sketchup is the only one without built-in 64-bit support.

Which means any work done for this type of kludge would have absolutely no benefit for any of their other platforms -- it's wasted energy.

SketchUp is deservedly the red-headed stepchild of the 3D world... not because of it's users, but because of it's developers.

Best,
Jason.

True, but it's a complete cop-out...

Each developer would be required to redo the work to make this happen -- which I've already covered the ridiculousness of.

If SketchUp was any kind of competent platform, it should not require 3rd party developers to repeatedly do extra and unnecessary work. I think if most of the 3rd party developers felt free to be honest they would publicly agree with me...

But honestly these conversations keep going in circles.

Best,
Jason.

If I had my way I'd relegate this to Layout -- which is natural environment for real rendering of SketchUp Styles. Layout has presentation mode which is far more suitable to the task.

Best,
Jason.

External Proxies/Instances are besides the point -- the geometry must be still loaded into the 32-bit SketchUp process in order to be rendered inside SketchUp... so even proxies can put you into a RAM based failure to launch the render.

The reality is that SketchUp cannot adequately support the tools visualizers are using as a host app... and the concept of SketchUp as a platform is a failure because of that.

Every workable solution I've seen requires the user to leave SketchUp -- which by definition means it fails as a host.

I've not seen any other modern software that struggles as badly as SketchUp -- the "real-time" rendering in SketchUp might be part of the problem, and obviously you can also blame the inferencing engine as well to a certain degree. But better packages allow you to disable/enable those features as needed, rather than forcing you to suffer through them because of some philosophically misguided rationale of "simplicity trumps all"... which to me reads more like the developers (Bacus) saying "I know what's better for you than you do".

Best,
Jason.

I can only go by how often the issue pops up for Maxwell users, where the problem is the 4 Gb limit on RAM, and various workarounds must be used... which I suppose is tolerable for full Render Suite users (like myself), but useless for stand-alone plugin users.

Not knowing the particulars of how Thea implemented rendering inside SketchUp, I would hazard to guess that those users will run up against this issue where, whether they want to keep using SketchUp or not, they will be forced out into the "studio" component simply because SketchUp can't handle the job.

I suppose the situation is even more dire for rendering engines that are run solely inside SketchUp... but I'm not sure any of those would benefit from the extra polygon detail the way unbiased engines do (Twilight would be my only guess here).

I've said it for a long time -- that Maxwell (and Unbiased rendering in general) and SketchUp are working towards contrary goals... meaning the way SketchUp wants to work, and the way a Unbiased engine wants things to be, are not really ideally compatible. I am of the opinion that SketchUps way of working is antiquated, and no longer useful the way it was even as recently as 5 years ago... low-poly modeling is no longer the order of the day -- even in poly-count sensitive areas like video games. The very last place this was useful was Google Earth... but who cares about that now that Google is gone.

SketchUp feels old and clunky -- in more than one way.

Best,
Jason.

@notareal said:

Also SU is getting a stronger and stronger hobbyist stamp and that might also affect. If brand/product gets a stain, it's hard to win back a lost customer.

I agree with this entire post, but this last bit is particularly relevant.

Best,
Jason.

Yes, of course you are right, I have issues that I would like addressed like UV Unwrap and triangulation controls (or at least visibility)... however, I would acknowledge those may be outside the scope of what most users might be using SketchUp for.

64-bit is a different issue -- my role on this forum has been to help people... particularly people who are having issues with rendering via Maxwell. That's not to say I could not help with other facets of SketchUp, but there are already plenty of people who do those things here.

Anyhow, the 64-bit issue is a huge roadblock for Maxwell users, and one which creates alot of extra headaches. I can only imagine that the same would be said for similar renderers like Thea.

So from that point of view 64-bit is something that would easily benefit a large chunk of users right out of the gate... and even open new possibilities for other 3d party developers.

I've said all this before in various forms over several threads -- so this is nothing new. I'm only reiterating it here since you made some statements that I cannot fully agree with.

On the issue of SketchUps role in my workflow -- because of the stellar plugin for Maxwell I have a desire to keep SketchUp as my hub... unfortunately other apps I may like either do not have a Maxwell plugin or the Maxwell plugin is not as good. Thus my reluctance to give up here... which has nothing to do with any lingering affection for SketchUp.

Blender would be a great example of a software that I might like to use -- however there is no official Maxwell plugin and the plugins that are available are WIP's. I have other options that are more suitable, and I am ready to move to one of them... there is nothing I need that SketchUp does that my other options cannot do better (with the exception of the Maxwell plugin).

The fact that you have largely abandoned SketchUp should raise huge red flags for the SketchUp dev team -- you have more reason to stay with the software than just about anybody I know... so your situation brought alot of clarity to my own thinking on the matter.

Best,
Jason.

Maybe my memory is too clear on this -- but these forums exploded with complaints for weeks after the release. This lengthy expression of intense dissatisfaction was the thing that sparked the polls PR move.

Now to be fair most of the complainers are no longer here -- either they moved on to other packages or simply went back into lurk mode.

Actually I'm a bit surprised at so much apathy from the user base here -- I can only read this as "giving up"... which does not bode well for the future of the software.

Whatever the reality, Jeff is right, I made my decision before and nothing that has happened in the interim has altered my perception of the situation. I have no faith in Bacus to deliver a useful update, and my time and attention are limited, so I'm out.

Best,
Jason.

I agree -- and at the time I even suggested that they have separate polls for Pro users and free version users. I stepped on some free version users toes at that time, but I believed strongly that if you pay your money, you have more of a say than the guy who just downloaded it...

However the reality is none of it matters anyway -- free or Pro we all get ignored equally.

Best,
Jason.

Jeff hit the nail on the head -- I participated fully in good faith.

Bacus presided over the most dismal development period of any (ostensibly worked on) software I have seen -- such poor performance would be grounds for termination at any job.

As for what I want, I put in my votes like everybody else -- sure I'd be slightly disgruntled if my wants are ignored while everyone else gets what they want... but the truth is hardly anybody got anything they wanted.

I'm not anti-SketchUp at all. Wait until 2013 (ugh) is released and see what kind a zoo this place turns into... the chaos upon release of SketchUp 8 was just a small sample of what you can expect with the next (and I believe last) wave of disappointing results.

The mere fact that Sketchup 9, which should have been ready for release, was scrapped should tell you that they had nothing worthwhile to release even 2 years after the SketchUp 8 fiasco. After 4 years of essentially doing nothing you really believe they are competent to get the job done at this time? And based on what, the last worthwhile update was SketchUp 7 -- so you have to go back many years to see anything good Bacus has done.

All I've seen are excuses and rationalizations as to why things aren't getting done -- I want results... plain and simple.

Best,
Jason.

@unknownuser said:

@jason_maranto said:

But I'm not really interested in drawing comparisons here, other than to say that should I choose to move on from SketchUp Pro (very likely)

dunno.. i think that's your best course of action.. make the decision final & quit hoping for SU to do what you want..
your hair will thank you.

I lost most of it long ago, but I seem to be holding steady these days...

Yeah, you are probably right, I had actually already made the decision to go that way once I got wind of the terms of SketchUp's sale... but I was persuaded to wait. I've been very disappointed in SketchUp for a while, and I can't say that I think things will get better (for my concerns)... I suspect many other users feel much the same -- and this is borne out by most of the people I admire here moving partially or fully to other packages.

Now, if I was a BIM oriented user I might be excited by the possibilities, but that means absolutely nothing to me.

Best,
Jason.

I don't know -- I think form Z 7 is a pretty decently comparative product (although far more advanced), maybe once they release a new Bonzai3d it might be a better direct comparison.

But I'm not really interested in drawing comparisons here, other than to say that should I choose to move on from SketchUp Pro (very likely) there are options that I already have done work with and am pleased to give my money to instead.

I use SketchUp Pro because of Maxwell -- not the other way around, so my first issue will always be what can SketchUp do to improve my workflow with Maxwell. As far as I'm concerned Maxwell is a stellar product that puts SketchUp development to shame with a similar sized team.

But that isn't hard, practically every software I've used has put SketchUp development to shame over the last 5 years.

Best,
Jason.

I'm not interested in Johns opinion of me -- I already have formed my opinion of him, and therefore his thoughts on me are really irrelevant -- meaning I think he should be fired (based on past performance).

For that matter I decided some time ago that you were also irrelevant as well, so it's no surprise you find me rude -- I find you to be a SketchUp shilling twit... and I'm not terribly good at hiding that.

Forget free version "customers", they don't even count and you know it -- this isn't Google land any more and if Trimble doesn't find a way to convert those "customers" to paying users they will simply cease supporting them... at which point the free version users will simply move onto the next free package.

As for Pro version users, I've rarely come across one who isn't using some form of rendering engine or other 3rd party functionality add-on... what is the point of even having Pro if all you need is a easy/fast "sketcher"? (if you say Layout I'll laugh my head off -- hardly anybody says Layout is deciding factor in going Pro for them... as cool as it is, it is simply too immature at this point)

Best,
Jason.

I'm positive you could not be directing your post at me... because that would just be stupid.

But then maybe I'm giving you too much credit...

You sell SketchUp right? Well where do you suppose SketchUp would be without all of the 3rd party plugin developers?

OK -- so now that we've established that insulting 3rd party developers is idiotic to suicidal for Sketchup developers... lets establish part 2.

Why, oh why, in the world should a 3rd party developer be forced to reinvent core programmatic elements that SketchUp has made no warranty they will not completely alter in near future builds?

Meaning, if I were to put alot of time and energy into doing just what you suggest -- what is to say they (SketchUp dev team) would not wipe out all the competitive benefits I've gained by my hard work at any point in time(and with no warning)?

In fact this scenario is extremely likely -- so as a 3rd party developer I am not touching that with a ten foot pole... the work should be done by SketchUp so that all interested parties benefit equally rather than each party re-inventing the wheel.

But more than that, any and all packages that are serious about supporting their 3rd party developers have already done so -- draw your own conclusions about the significance of SketchUp (Bacus) choosing to ignore this fact.

Best,
Jason.