That all obviously depends on how you define failing, and we simply don't know what criteria is being applied. At Google the criteria was catering to Google Earth and he obviously did that... to the point where those were the only parts of SketchUp proper that saw any real growth.

Trimble is a big question mark -- all I can gather at this point is that they don't care for SketchUp to be a mainstream modeling application (even in the Pro iteration). Otherwise I would have to assume something would have been done in the last 2 years. It does not take 2 years to implement new modeling tools no matter what the circumstances.

So, I guess a more accurate assessment is that he is failing to lead SketchUp to anywhere I find worthwhile. I would say from many of the comments (yours included) that many other people are disappointing in the directions it is going as well.

So at the end of it, he is losing hearts and minds of the users (at the very least) to the competition. There is certainly some inertia that has been propelling the product forward based off what happened a long time ago (already implemented or in progress features of the software from before). But I really can't believe that any recent moves have netted significant amounts of new users.

Really what I have seen is alot of promises of cool stuff to come, without any specifics given, and without anything of merit materializing. It is easy to make promises, but you have to deliver something eventually, or the credibility of those statements becomes suspect as simply being delay tactics.

I mean of course Trimble is happy with the financials -- even if you only count existing Pro version users, they are paying double what they used to pay for upgrades... and Trimble doing (or perhaps releasing) hardly any work to get the increase in revenue. So I am sure the financials look spectacular.

Those were some of the most helpful responses I've ever seen from a SketchUp team member on the topic. I wouldn't say that I personally find the answers completely satisfying, but the reality of it is your reasons (as finally explained) are actually plausible. Whereas Bacus has always been combative and dismissive, particularly on this issue... which strikes me as a combination of arrogantly self-confident that he knows best, and at the same time equally ignorantly confident that SketchUp users are all idiots.

To me a good analogy for the situation is American football -- in football when things go bad, and a team is losing consistently, the head coach and the quarterback are the ones who take the heat. Right or wrong, they are the face of the franchise and the buck stops with them. Usually the end result is the head coach is fired, and a large amount to the team is replaced when a new head coach is hired. Alternately sometimes the head coach will replace the quarterback to save his own job. Sometimes this is for the best, and sometimes things don't work out -- however at the end of the day a change is always made when things go bad for too long... there is simply too much money at stake to allow the negativity to continue.

I have spent the better part of the last year working in an advisory role to another software that is converting their (much older) legacy codebase to 64-bit. I personally know the frustrations users have with them are somewhat unfounded from working closely with the developers. However, I also have to keep reminding them the ways the users are going to perceive the decisions they make, because they often get so lost in their situation that they loose sight of how the outside perceives the results. I'm sure they don't always like me raining on their parade -- but they are going to dislike the reactions of the general public even more when the results are released (if somebody honest doesn't speak up beforehand)... and unfortunately there do not appear to be many other people who are willing to endanger their position once they have achieved "insider" status. To me that may my best attribute... I will say what I really think no matter how unpopular, and no matter how personally unfavorable the outcome of that honesty may be.

I am a generally positive guy -- if you look back, almost all of my posts up to a certain point you would see that I was always trying to be helpful and positive. The way Bacus handled the issues (at least publicly) turned me from a good friend of SketchUp into a bitter enemy. And that is the issue more than the results -- the things he said and the way he said them turned me off -- and the lack of tangible results he delivered did not make up for his personality. (A good example of a football coach who has a similar off-putting personality, but manages to still be respected, because he actually gets results would be Bill Belichick).

Ultimately the bottom line is this: if you don't want the negative attention, then deliver results.

Yes, I was talking specifically about viewport/real-time rendering performance in SketchUp as relative to OpenGL.

For the operations you are specifically talking about it is more likely that a combination of multi-core (this is the type of thing it was meant to address) and better coding would the solution.

One of the salient points they keep dodging around is the fact that overall performance would naturally improve by doing the 64-bit conversion. The reason being the whole code base would need to be re-factored and that means old parts of the code they haven't touched in a very long time would get full rewrites... that is always going to net alot of (perhaps small, but cumulatively significant) performance improvements.

At this point I suspect the real reason they are so hesitant to do this is they have code they simply do not know how to deal with, since the originators are long gone.

Oh for crying out loud.... I thought for sure we were past the same old smokescreens.

Look, if SketchUp is meant to be platform for other people to build on then it is a very poor platform that does not allows 3rd party developers the best tools to do thier work. 64-bit is simply a tool SketchUp (as a platform) should be providing to every 3rd party developer.

The idea that 64-bit is relevant to why SketchUp high poly performance is so poor is just misdirection. The real culprit there is primarily the video card and openGL... where if SketchUp were to embrace more advanced technologies the user could see real improvement. However as long as SketchUp is designed for users running cheap integrated graphics chipsets, instead of requiring dedicated workstation graphics like any proper modelling app, this will remain the case. All you need to do is load a heavy scene and disable the fancy viewing options to see dramatic performance improvement... this is all the proof needed to see this in action.

The idea that "converting to 64-bit is too much work" is a valid excuse is beyond rediculous.... what have you actually done in the last 5 years that is so impressive that we should accept such a lame excuse? Stop wasting time designing websites and actually work on the software people are paying for!

I don't believe that the inference engine can be used as an excuse -- formZ has a very similar inference engine (which by the way allows you to choose which parts it will snap to, or not, anytime you want).

I'm not sure there is an excuse beyond the desire to make SketchUp cater to the lowest common denominator users (hardware-wise)... and I don't view that as a desirable thing either, but I think Bacus does.

From what I have seen (working with other software companies) the real issue is a 64-bit Mac version -- converting the PC side of things seems to be very simple by comparison, whereas the Mac side requires essentially a full rewrite.

This is also why the latest version of formZ (beta was specific in mentioning that they had added not only quads/subD capabilities, but also full 64-bit Mac version.

In the past it has been mentioned that the SketchUp team is anti-PC (or pro-Mac if you want to look at that way) -- so they may be reluctant to give the PC version features they are unwilling to give the Mac side.

As far as I am concerned the only real issue with SketchUp is that Bacus is in charge of its development. As long as that is true the software and I (and it seems the rest of the 3D world) will continue to go in different directions.

Those of you who are happy with the status quo are just setting yourself up for bigger issues later down the line.

@andrews said:

To put this differently, the point is that one must consider whether the production of a 64-bit binary alone provides enough benefit to warrant sacrificing all of the other things that might be accomplished with such effort.

Same song and dance -- and you know I bought it, but that was when I though you guys were actually going to do "something" (anything) with the resources saved. However, in light of the fact that you have done essentially nothing for the last 5 years, I would say that all you have shown is that you in fact fully intend to keep doing nothing for as long as you can get away with it.

Meanwhile other applications, applications without nearly the backing you guys have and are also several times more complex than SketchUp, have already done the work and have successfully moved on.

Try selling your misdirection to somebody who is foolish enough to actually buy it.

I have to laugh, I found this in my inbox this morning:

http://www.formz.com/email/formz8betaannouncment_4_15_2014/formz8betaannouncement1.html

They "get" it.

I stand corrected, here is the latest update -- at the end of last month:

http://www.formz.com/forum/discus41/messages/35952/76196.html?1393598928

Having dealt with this company I will say they are definitely far more responsive than SketchUp.

Best,
Jason.

I just checked, the last update was May 2013 -- that is less than a year ago... I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Best,
Jason.

Bonzai 3D is current on special for $150 off regular price:

301 Moved Permanently

(www.formz.com)

This could be a good time to make the switch for people looking to do so.

Best,
Jason.

I would also throw in my 2 cents behind FormZ as a good option for people looking to transition elsewhere (and at this point I think transitioning is the only prudent option).

It really is sad that it has come to this. I waited to say anything until I was sure, but there is no mistaking it... I still stand by everything I said last year, however there is no need for me to repeat myself.

Best,
Jason.

@frederik said:

I wonder if Jason Maranto decided to upgrade or just leave it...

I haven't changed my POV -- I still have 8 Pro and use it occasionally, but I will not pay for any more SketchUp until there is something released which is worth paying for. That said, since nothing is new with me, and I've already said my bit on the SketchUp 9 subject, I've refrained from posting until such a time as new news is forthcoming from Trimble.

In the meantime I've been focusing on other software.

Best,
Jason.

Personally, this is one of the selling points for me of form.z -- you have all the snapping power of SketchUp (and then some) but you can disable any and/or all of them whenever you need/want to... incredibly precise and powerful: http://www.formz.com/manuals/formz7/!SSL!/WebHelp/01090_Snapping.html

You won't typically find that type of snapping in any SubD modeler. SubD is a different way of thinking about making things (than standard surface modeling)... so it requires some adjustment.

Best,
Jason.

For the record I hadn't posted here for almost 3 weeks -- so I think you are being extremely over dramatic saying "I post in every single thread" and acting like I am somehow ruining the experience of using this forum.

Also, for what it is worth I only responded to what a few other "SketchUp" users had to say in this thread... so not really like I started anything here either.

If you don't like it you are free to ignore me... but you'd better stick your head really far down in the sand if you want to ignore reality.

Best,
Jason.

There has been a new Maxwell Render Plugin released for Bonzai 3: http://www.formz.com/email/Webinar_6-18-2013/Maxwell_Released_Webinar_6-18-2013.html

As far as modeling power goes, Bonzai beats SketchUp hands down -- but there is no "Layout" equivalent in Bonzai, so if that is something important to you then you would have to move up to form.Z (which has many other advantages, like strong animation tools).

Best,
Jason.

@arail1 said:

@solo said:

Just dawned on me watching both threads that maybe it is me, I want stuff that most folk do not, like better UV tools, more poly's, quads, etc.

Gonna have to give Blender a real go.

Or MODO

I came to the exact same conclusions, and Modo is exactly where I've been once I ran out of caring about SketchUp 9 -- and I'm not regretting the decision at all.

For the record I refuse to participate in any more SketchUp wishlist events, and especially in anything "darling" is involved in... they know exactly what is wrong and have known for many years, but they choose to ignore it.

Best,
Jason.

I just went by the "official" SketchUp forums -- if you ever needed another reason to support SketchUcation you should check it out.

Anybody who has anything negative to say about SketchUp 9 gets beat down by the SketchUp zombies -- as if any rational and intelligent person would not be at least slightly offended by what SketchUp is selling as an "update".

The defensiveness I see is such a clear indication of that -- after all, if it was such a great update all you would have to do is list the awesome new features that make it worthwhile, rather than trying to shore up your position by playing the puppet for "darlings" misinformation and relying on peoples gullibility to grand future hopes and dreams (which will most likely never materialize).

I often wonder if they are trying to fool us, or themselves.

Best,
Jason.

@jpalm32 said:

My final input.
What's keeping people with SU is that there is no real competition.
AutoDesSys, Inc. has all the tools but they are not interested.
One good year of aggresive pricing and they would capture a bigger market share.
They haven't updated their newsletter since 2009.
Blog user bitch about it not being 64 bit (Bonzai3D). Sound familiar?
No layout type add-on. Limited Render choices.
Some changes, a few updates & SU price increase, they would win big (IMO).
Also, all the time the talented people here that dedicated all that time & effort to Ruby would find it hard to leave it.

IMO bonzai3d is in a strange place -- it is not 64-bit, and I think that is largely due to the fact that it is made to compete with SketchUp which is also not available in 64-bit. I imagine if SketchUp were to go 64-bit (unlikely) then bonzai3d would immediately follow suit.

The reason I say it is in a strange place is: all the functionality for bonzai3d to be a monster software is already in place (inside form.z), so they could easily compete with SketchUp whenever they felt pressured to do so. Therefore, one can only conclude if a feature does not currently exist in bonzai3d it is only due the fact that they don't feel it is necessary due to SketchUp being such weak competition.

That said, all you have to do is look at the communities contribution to SketchUp and you see what bonzai3d is lacking -- namely, the user base is much smaller and not remotely as involved.

The reality with AutoDesSys is that form.z is where all the action is -- with bonzai3d being the "entry level" version... the fact that they consider their entry level software to be sufficient competition for SketchUp should speak volumes about how highly SketchUp is (not) regarded.

Best,
Jason.

@rv1974 said:

How its license work? 1 year only + constant internet connection?

As far as internet connection I would much prefer he use something like the iLok -- I already have one that I use for VST (audio) plugins. That is the standard in the audio business and it works well for people who cannot have their DAW online.

I am even less thrilled about the idea of a year subscription fee -- this type of tactic really leaves a terrible taste in my mouth. I've not yet subscribed to anything priced like this, and that is definitely an issue for me as well.

Best,
Jason.