@valerostudio said:

There is 2 ways to approach this type of rendering.

...

2. The other way, which makes for a real nice rendering is to place a ceiling plane on your model. Use a SketchUp 2-sided material in V-Ray and make the front face (should be facing into the plan) a white color and make the back face a material that is 100% transparent. Then you want to add some interior lights by using IES or spots and some planar lights at your window openings, and then render the view. Essentially, what happens is that V-Ray renders with no sun flooding into the room from the hole in the ceiling, but keeps it transparent because the face that is facing the camera is 100% clear.

Give it a try.

@unknownuser said:

@tig said:

@unknownuser said:

until today all works fine.. but today cant' start SKP 8 ver. Crashes on startup. trying to off all plugins manualy (changing files name) and after each changing trying to start SKP. and crashes until i changing LibFredo6.rb to LibFredo6.rb1.. and then skp starts fine.
Had you recently added another tool?
That could be clashing with this - which is stable in its own right ??

didnt add anything...not install or something (but windows had updated self)
yesterday worked with default skp. without any plugins.
hm interesting but today after renaming back libfrerdo, skp start's fine,

Elensark, how have you been able to solve this problem?
today my windows updated itself, and now sketchup crashes on startup.
removing plugins one by one showed that only removing LibFredo will enable sketchup to run.

@jbacus said:

I don't know what application you're comparing SketchUp against in performance terms
.

I've Been a Maya user for about 6 Years until I enrolled into Architecture Studies.
For the past 5 Years, I've been getting away with mostly SU, but also a mix of Rhino (Not relevant - Apples & Oranges), C4D and Maya. I've been hearing great things about Modo, but haven't got a chance to actually use it more than a few minutes at a time.
I want to make clear that I'm not looking forward to Mudbox / ZBrush Billions of Polys.
But when a big % of the Component in 3DWarehouse (a big feature of SU) are like kryptonite to SU, or when trying to load Evermotion props...

@jbacus said:

I don't know what you would consider a "medium project", and I don't know what your hardware configuration is either.
.

It's holiday here, so I won't be in the office until monday, So I'll get back to you with numbers as to poly count.
Since it's an ongoing competition, i can't yet publish any photos, but i'll see what i can do.
My Workstation is an Win7 / i7/ 12Gb / GTX470 Machine. Build to crunch number and to render fast.
at the Office we also have an older (Yet Faster) 8-Core MacPro.

@jbacus said:

In game-theoretic terms, SketchUp's modeling performance is a classic "arms race". Every time we make SketchUp faster, you start making bigger models. Then we have to make SketchUp faster again, and then you start making even bigger models. There is no logical conclusion to this game where performance is infinite and you can make an infinitely large model. Eventually performance will plateau, and you'll have to learn how to work with the system as it stands.

@jbacus said:

You have to take some responsibility as well, though, and manage your model to work within the constraints of the system.

john
.

Those two comments really amuses me.
I Had a University project which we ported to Unity3D for real-time walk-through for an exhibition.
it was a whole Blvd, with over 30 Historical Building and surroundings.
SU couldn't handle the Building themselves, yet in Unity we got REAL-TIME geometry, Trees (Not Low Poly/2D) and Improved Textures (Bump/Spec which SU can't handle) at high resolution and good FPS (60+).
any modern Game Engine can Handle a Huge amount of data today, even the free ones (UDK, Unity3D).
Most 3D Packages can handle much more geometry than SU, and that's a fact.

Yes, improvements have been made on version 7 & 8 - but if you take into account the increase in computer power from 2007 (SU6) until today you'd see that SU doesn't begin to utilize what is a fairly reasonable workstation TODAY.

I Realize that Google doesn't want to do heavy work on SU core.
I want to emphasize that in my humble opinion - Doing so would take SU from a "Google Earth Plugin" to worthy "Pro Arh Viz Tool", even a competitor to 3DSMax and others, thanks to it's ease of use and wide spread popularity among Architects.

@tfdesign said:

... I would imagine that this would push the price range of SketchUp out of the range of many users. If I need to do any rendering, I tend to use an external renderer anyway.
Tom

Price wise - I am talking about Pro Users. Not the free Google-Earth Plugin.
My Render Engine of choice is Maxwell Render, which has a wonderful Studio (that is capable to handle a lot of Geometry).
But one of the Firms I work with has poorly (in my opinion) invested in VRay for SU, and they insist of using it to justify the purchase.
A lot of money for a Pro Render, with proven abilities (inside 3DSMax/Maya/C4D) - yet very much handicapped by Sketchup Environment.
Every single deadline with it, I find myself Banging my head against Technical issues and workaround (Rendering to VRImage) instead of Design and Architecture.

And it's not just limited to rendering.
What if tomorrow will bring a new Ecological plugin, or an amazing high-poly tools for Sketchup,
All with heavy calculations and whatever? What kind of platform will they find? a very limited one.
And btw, for me this is a bit of trying to hold the stick on both ends -
You can't push "SU as a Platform" and "Use External Applications" at the same time.
If I need to invest in Modo, I'll (sadly) do it to replace SU and minimize/optimize my workflow, not to add another tool.

@jbacus said:

@emage said:

Now, don't take that as a rant.
I really appreciate the fact the John spends his time reading and answering us.
(though i feel some important issues are being dodged.)

What issue do you feel I dodged?

john
.

Hi, john,
Again, I'd like to express my appreciation for the time and effort you invest in this dialog.
Maybe if was the other way around (first dialog and then a release) Version 8 wouldn't be bashed so hardly.

The main issue i feel neglected is simple - PERFORMANCE.

Be it x64, be it Multi-Core, be it Moonlight and Fairy Dust - I don't really care.
But a 3D package that cost 500$ a seat, and can't handle a medium project - IS a problem.
Any situation in which, I as a pro paying customer, find my Workstation handicapped by a software - That's a problem.
I Expect a software to utilize whatever Horsepower I give it - be it for Rendering / Manipulating large models / Plugging Trees(!) in my model!
maybe that should be a "PRO" version feature. Sure as hell not anybody need it. BUT SOME OF US DO!
and what gets me the most is that SU can be a Full size player in the Arch-Viz Business.
It is so close (Workflow / Interface / Ease of use) ... and yet years behind (Performance).
as much as I LOVE SU, I can't justify an upgrade to V8.

@tfdesign said:

@emage said:

I
That said, I think that as a Platform SU falls short.
it has no 64Bit

Yes, as we keep on hearing. But no one seems to be taking note from Mr SketchUp himself, that there is little if any difference using 64 bit.

Have you ever tried to render (SU+VRay) larger than 3000px? or use a high quality Arroway Textures with it?
Come on. the fact that you're not using it - doesn't mean that others can't benefit from it. as far as i care, it can be a "PRO" feature.
seems to me people are ignoring the fact that this has been requested repeatedly over the year. I'm yet to be convinced that I'm an idiot asking for something that won't do him any good.
If it's a platform - than it should host plugins nicely. not hold them back on like it's 1999 all over again.

I feel the need to jump in and say that I completely understand DaCad.
SU is great, but it seem to be frozen in time (early 2000's).

This thread got me thinking, and I DO agree to the idea of SU as a Platform.
I think IT IS the right way to go - every will tailor SU to his liking.

That said, I think that as a Platform SU falls short.
it has no 64Bit (and that IS AN ISSUE if it is a platform. saying "get a studio render engine" is the exact opposite that a one-stop platform!), and Poly-count wise, it pretty much suck.

I don't think that Google need to develop any more tools. I would Happily pay for good plugins by the great developers around here.
But I sure ain't going to pay 100's of dollars for a such a release.
Come'on! a Toolbar bugfix as a major feature?!

Now, don't take that as a rant.
I really appreciate the fact the John spends his time reading and answering us.
(though i feel some important issues are being dodged.)
I'd really like to see SU get Better. it could be a Super-Tool.
not just for the free swarm of Google-Earth builder. it could be Super Pro.

@unknownuser said:

Does 83$ something for a Pro Office?
It's a meal at Mc Donald for 3 persons

Yes, but 8 seats are 760$(!)...
Not sure V8 is worth that much to us, when we need to rely on other programs either way.
be it Maxwell Studio (since inserting high-poly props inside SU is a no-go) or Other Tools for UV Mapping.
Might as well consider a seat or two of Modo / C4D / Other and upgrade our Modeling Capabilities along the way.
We won't stop using SU (anytime soon). but as we read the map (and the developers answers)
our future and SU future is not heading in the same direction.

On a side note, I'm all up for the notion of SU as a Platform - I Don't need Google to develop tools for SU.
I'd Happily PAY for Grade-A Ruby scripts (as I've done before). I think that this community is the true power behind SU.
But if it is a Platform - then be it A PLATFORM! (= Fast, Able to host Plugins/Render Engines, with a decent API & Tools for Developers)
Take a note from Android - Also by Google. Google hasn't developed 10% of the Apps on the Market.
But they sure as hell developed a SOLID PLATFORM. Can you imagine it come to a crawl when trying to use an App?
If this is a PRO product (and it sure has cost as one) - I expect it to Handle a PRO workflow and demands (eg. - High Poly Count).
I Really LOVE sketchup, but that's just the thing that annoys me the most -
I can see the HUGE potential (it can be a one-stop-shop for us as architects)
but it just doesn't get there. or even close to that.

@thomthom said:

When I started with SU modelling, a large model was ~20-30K faces, then it grew steady to be 200K-300K, Now I have a couple of models of 1-2M faces - because my hardware and SU is better.

Hi, Thomas.
Can you elaborate on your system spec?
I'm working on an i7-920 / 12Gb / GTX470 Workstation, and SU dies on me two-tree times a week.
Using Trees for example is out of the question...

Thanks.

@thomthom said:

@emage said:

1. Does SU8 support Multi-Cores?

No

@emage said:

2. Does SU8 support >2Gb Memory (we have 12Gb on our Workstation...)

No

Thanks, Thomas.

I guess that the fact that it's 2010(!) that got me all mixed-up.
Clearly, SU is not going anywhere.
Lame.