As I remember there was a HUGE list with SketchUp 2016 Wishes; Even I wrote some in there... And the first thing that crossed my mind when I saw the new cool features was "oh my, really? So many people wanted Layout Dialogs and extra inferencing instead of really useful features?" - I mean, I really couldn't believe that Trimble would ignore so big time THE SKETCHUP FORUM (a.k.a SketchUcation), ok...they built theirs(forum)... not sketchucation, but sketchup. And they have their own Extensions Warehouse, not Extension Store... but come on, who is using sketchup?

I had a big rant when they took over and the first thing they did was to CHANGE THE ICON - wow, such feature. No, it wasn't a "feature", it was a way of saying "is ours, this is our mark". Then was the price increase that happened really recently. Again "we spent money in acquiring SketchUp, we have to recover them, so we raise the price" - good marketing technique!

And now, the mighty SU2016 - following the Wishlist NOT. As a matter of fact, the contributors to all the wishlists until now are sketchup users with cumulated years of SketchUp experience more than Trimble will EVER have (unless they have a secret recipe to last like Roman Empire).

So enough with ranting... let me judge some facts:

1. they already had all the inferencing code - how difficult was to add some new inferencing rules to that? I believe not "that difficult". Experts welcome to comment
2. the "Layout Style" dialogs code was there too (in Layout source code) - how difficult might that have been to be translated into SketchUp? I bet it took them about a week of hard work (one person, between coffees and other breaks).
3. Even my sister which doesn't even know to draw a square in Sketchup can come with a folder with textures and to copy it in Materials Folder in Sketchup. - genius

Let me not be completely mean... they spent some time to add some improvements to Layout... for those who actually use Layout. And the improvements are not even so great.
I bet they completely left untouched all text-related bugs and issues that were driving everybody crazy and there were several more things that made any Layout user to want to smash their computer in mid-project.

So: 25%+ in licensing costs, some inferencing tools, some dialogs that were ok as they were, some textures (cgtextures.com, i don't need yours) and completely ignoring the real issues. Does it sound like Corporation? ah, i forgot: extra trouble for plugin developers. As there wasn't already a bunch of great people giving their time to offer lots of great things for free, make it harder for them, Trimble... make them pay for their generosity, if possible.

What's wrong with this world, guys?

Neat update this version 3... but I'm wondering who is making such a big effort to make this tool WORSE than better?
Why worse?

1. Now the plugins have NO information about them Except the name. There is a fancy heart and a big download button.
   What the hell am I downloading? What that extension does? Can't find that anymore...
2. Bundles STILL CAN'T BE DELETED - but yey, we have a new interface. Why was that needed anyway? The previous one had much more USEFUL information.
3. Now the window has two "dead" areas - status bars, whatever:
   -The top one where is ONLY one settings button (yup, that's it... the rest is just white space)
   -The bottom one with filters, favorites, search, logoff.
   Does this app comes with FREE BIGGER DISPLAYS ? Because I can't afford bigger one right now.
4. There is no button to send me to plugin's page (either on the forum or on author's website)
5. There is no button to UNINSTALL a installed plugin/extension. It wasn't before, but as you still install a feature on user's computer why can't you make the things easier instead of more complicated? If I install it from there, why can't I UNINSTALL it from the same place?

And again: still can't delete bundles... but I can clone them. Wow, such feature. So useless (if I can't delete).

Now, I apologize for being so sarcastic (but I'm not sorry). I was expecting much more from some people with so much experience in making plugins, interfaces, user-friendly menus, etc. So, all my sarcasm came from this huge disappointment. Is like you take Ergonomics lessons from Google (yeah, they love to mess-up with everything that works).

EDIT: another "fancy feature" is that fade when doing any command... like a cheap action movie. And NO setting to control the fade duration or just to cut it off.

I need to create this hinge for a simulation ( http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/products/hinges/casement_hinges/11856/securistyle_sterling_heavy_duty_friction_hinge_16mm_stack_height/587658 ) but I couldn't find any exact data (exact dimensions, distance between joints).

So, if anyone has a 3d model, no matter how basic, or dimensions for it, to allow me to make a functional model close to reality, it would help a lot.

I tried to make an account on http://www.securistyle.com/ because they have some pdfs that are only visible to registered users, but it seems they have to review and activate it.

Thank you very much.

SU 2016 BASIC WISHLIST

I want for no magic and fairy tales... all I wish is common sense:

%(#BF0000)[1. Fix Scenes Bug that can lead to accidental Scene Renaming !
2. Fix Importers/Exporters to work at decent speed (take any other 3d software from the market as example)
3. Fix the iterating commands in SU, because they take forever to run on complex models. Either if those commands are coded in SU or ran from scripts and plugins. This includes the Outliner crap, that makes everything blow to hell when Outliner is opened.
4. Make a BETTER Layer manager (get inspired from Layers Panel plugin).

5. (optional) - try to make plugin parsing a bit faster... would help a lot when SU is loading. One suggestion would be to have all the plugins parsed and converted in binary and saved as a "copy", ready to load in memory. And to have a (manual) function to rescan the Plugins folder in case that plugins were added/removed/updated. This way, won't be needed to parse and interpret all the plugins every time SU is loading...

6. MAKE LAYOUT DECENT ! - this can become a huge list of things that can be improved. The general idea is that Layout at this moment runs like a Beta version in all aspects. Text editing is a mess, dimensions placed in SU are not consistent (displayed too big in Layout), general performance is less than decent.. and so on.]

Thank you very much. This would make SU2016 what it should be, BEFORE adding extra functionality and fancy things that we all dream to. At least make it work, before making it fancy (and before adding price increase).

This kind of rupture has a very unpredictable shape, depending on material structure, etc... so there is no way to emulate it properly using SU.

BUT... you can use a image (photo) to guide yourself in doing the shape or that rupture. Then, using the same image as texture, apply it on that piece.
Just build the wall as you would normally do in reality and use real-life photos to guide you and to create textures.
Best would be for rendering to use a rendering engine that support Displacement Mapping, so you will be able to create richer surfaces that way.

I have a suspicion that Layers Panel is messing up with Scene settings. It won't keep the hidden/visible layers as set and something (couldn't figure what) makes certain scenes (the activated one) to update with the setting on that particular moment.

Eg: - i set some hidden/visible layers to a scene, then I update it. If I change something after that (add layer, hide layers, show more layers, etc), I will end up with a messed-up scene that won't keep the settings that i did to it in the first time.

This just renders the plugin mostly unusable.

Did this happened to others?

The good part is that website has images with the chair from several angles. This will be extremely helpful.

What I suggest is to use Artisan for this job. You can do a very simple proxy, low poly, few segments and then subdivide the parts in order to get the smooth appearance.

Just be careful to have the subdivisions as even as possible (don't use very elongated triangles or quads if possible) and you will notice there are several "good techniques" in order to get what you want with artisan. Part science, part art.
Look to other artisan models here on the forum.

Good luck.

@mike amos said:

I get it free and honestly accept that this means a lower standard can be upheld by the company.

You get it free because that was the condition imposed by Google to Trimble, to keep this version free alive. I don't know for how long, though... but FYI, this is not Trimble's good heart, rather this is how the deal was. Thank to Google for that.

@mike amos said:

Consider also the quite large improvements made since Trimble climbed on board and it is hard to see where the criticism is so harsh. 64 bit is here and while it is not before time it would NOT be here if google were still paying the wages bill.

Trimble did the improvements that were on Google's table at the moment of purchase, more or less... I agree that if it were for Google, maybe it had took way longer time to accomplish them. Think about this great improvements that Trimble did because "they considered that have to be done".

My rant is about too little improvements in this time before coming with the price raise. Yes, many things were done... Yeyy... at last. But I won't feel grateful for a delayed job that was eventually done. I will just say "thank you, was about time. Let's see how it goes from this point on".

As a MAKE user, SU is decent, so no complains about (especially because of the magic word FREE - still their EULA states that is forbidden to use Make for commercial purposes - aka for job).
But if you turn your eye to the Pro version and check the pro tools that come with (starting with different file importers and ending with boolean tools and Layout) you will notice that all of them behave rather poor, too much below the decent standard of any tool you are supposed to pay for. Layout 3, right now is like a improved Beta, like a Pre-Release Candidate.

Think on this: you use PRO for the reason to do the work faster and better and you end up doing it SLOWER and with a lot of nerves (and sometimes worse because of the bugs) ... AND YOU PAID FOR THAT ! Your clients won't accept the excuses "you see, I am using SU Pro, we shouldn't be that harsh". And also Trimble won't compensate you for this either, even if you PAID for their Pro version. So, first, all this tools should become DECENT, like at least as good as the competition average tools available.

Some were disappointed by this sudden price increase and for good reason.
Not because price increased. But because something was asked, without something given back of equal value. In the official statement, Trimble says "We’re continually investing in SketchUp". The problem is that is not done enough yet to justify more money.

Let's remember what was the first thing Trimble "improved" in sketchup: - was the logo. And that logo change increased SU performance by like... 0% .
After this, the major improvements were those that were left on Google's table at the time of sale. It was mainly just continuing Google's job. Well, I must admit that without Trimble, things may have gone much slower, as Google wasn't too interested to develop SU. But still, there is not yet something to say that Trimble did a major thing for SU.
We'd better see this major improvements soon, because the price we've seen already.

@mike lucey said:

Derei,

It looks that there has been 38.6% general inflation since 2000, the year SketchUp was launched at $495. It was great value then and in my opinion is still great value today at the new prices.

[attachment=0:mj9tcxef]<!-- ia0 -->Inflation Calculator.png<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:mj9tcxef]
From my calculations the new prices are an increase of 26% for SketchUp Pro 2015 and 35% for Annual Maintenance Renewal, both below the inflation rate.

I find it decent to raise the price a bit if it's justified. BUT - since 2000 Trimble didn't had SU, they bought it recently. And making a price raise just because you paid for it and need to cover your expenses is a bit... too capitalist.
A raise in price would be justified with considerable work added to it, to see "we worked to deliver you a better tool, a tool that FINALLY worth to pay for and use it as a PRO".

@mike lucey said:

I, like most others, don't like price increases on things I purchase and it would be great if these things were free. Oh!!!! SketchUp Make is free and I see this is what you use.

Yes that is what I use: SU MAKE, and is for the reasons stated above: I don't see any benefit in going PRO (though I would do it tomorrow) exactly because PRO is just too much name for such a flawed software.
I understand the logic behind a price increase, but my parents taught me that i should offer first, ask after. I grew up with this "belief". What I want to say is that Trimble should have raised (at least the Pro version) to a PRO status before raising the price. To say "ok, here it is... the new version, greatly updated Layout, greatly updated this and this, but we also had to raise the price a bit along with this GREAT updates".

Let me tell you why: because Trimble won't pay me a cent if I lose money due to their "PRO" software - I don't complain about Make, because Make is free and I am grateful for that (to Google, not to Trimble).
So, I when I pay for a program, I expect it to do what it says it does. Many parts from SU "kinda do"... like they do, but with many question marks. And mostly Layout (yeah, I am coming back to it), is NOT what I would call a PRO tool. Is so unoptimized that even Gordon Ramsay would make jokes about it.

@mike lucey said:

SketchUp, just like SketchUcation, is free to the vast majority of their users /members. Its lucky for these users / members that they have SU Pro purchasers and SketchUcation Premium Members to subsidise this.

Mike

Believe me Mike, this is the only reason why I stuck with SU: because of the great community around it and the great potential. And hoping month by month, year by year that SU will raise up to the competition. I don't need it fancier, just damn optimized. Yeah, after SU7 we started to see improvements in how SU works, but as I said in my previous post: what SU is NOW, should have been years ago.

For this year I had in plan actually to buy a pro license, because I considered that SU started to worth paying for. It just raised from the mud. But this price raise "just because inflation" made me think again. I will wait until "because now we made it better" moment comes.

Make this words heard by Trimble, Mike.

Good boy, Trimble... let's see why one should be happy about this:

SketchUp is a very professional tool that:

• allows UV mapping
• doesn't do bugsplat when having the Outliner window opened and SU does recursive operations
• Scene manager doesn't have bugs at all (eg. renaming scenes if there is something written in the Scene name field and the user clicks on another scene)
• The Warehouse doesn't take ages to initialize, is fast and sleek

And then let's talk about Layout. Layout is the best, working perfectly in conjunction with SU

• Is fast, renders the images instantly, doesn't feel lag at all
• The text from SU is identical in SU and Layout; the rendering of text is flawless. One doesn't have to make tiny dimensions (5-6pt) in order to see them decent in Layout.
• Text written in Layout is very simple to edit. Selecting all text and pressing BackSpace will delete the marked text. Also, many other very intuitive text functions (mainly like any text editor).
• The best part is still the speed, no lags, no annoyance of any way.

And many more could be said about SU + Layout.

So, yeah Trimble... your price rise is justified and earned. Good job! Expect for many people to buy licenses, because your software gets better and better.

**Leaving the irony aside, all the updates and improvements that Trimble did so far to SketchUp are welcomed and very good. BUT they merely made SU decent... like not CRAP anymore. From this to a PROFESSIONAL Software that grants speed and makes sense to pay a load of money for it is a LOOOOOONG way.

Dear Trimble... want money? We'll be more than happy to pay loads of money for SketchUp. Just make it worth that money.**

Cheers.

@tig said:

...can exist, but it cannot be created...

Use this as your motto, is cool !

@fredo6 said:

@derei,

Interesting, but I remember a discussion where it was advised to organize plugins based on a main entry menu labelled with the author name, usually in the Plugins menu, and then put all author's plugins under this main menu entry.

Fredo

And you offer this option, which is great. But you also offer the option to organize the plugins different, if I remember the settings interface correctly. But think on perspective: if ALL plugins would be organized by author, but someone develops some totally unrelated plugins (camera tools and extruding tool, let'say), they would be in the same place. Completely not intuitive.

Second, there are several plugins available which do similar things more or less. And more will appear. If users start to bind a tool to an author and tool gets replaced with a better plugin, a confusion will appear. Not helpful to maintain workflow.

Best would be as you do: offer option to install plugins as collection (by author, in Extensions), or to place them in menus by their functionality. (This was covered under EXTENSIONS menu suggestion in my list).

I worked on a quick mock-up to how plugins could be structured. Is not perfect, nor ideal, is just an idea. Feel free to change it, disregard it, read it, appreciate it.
Also, many plugins will fit in several categories, maybe there should be voted by forum members when a new plugin gets launched,where it fits best, or to let it to author's discretion.

Main idea was to stick on SU way of distributing native commands. That's not perfect either, but is good to preserve a consistency, so the user get's accustomed with a certain workflow, things preserve their logic, somehow.

FILE
Generally, things that interact or manipulate the file itself

• importer/exporter

• print
  EDIT
  Anything used to edit geometry as a whole

• copy/paste, move, array, mirror geometry

• boolean
  VIEW
  Tools that alter what user sees, but NOT camera-related.

• section plane tools

• hide/show tools (by material, by layer, etc)

• toolbar and menu editors (just because SU already has Toolbar menu here).
  CAMERA
  Anything that can change or alter the camera (viewpoint)

• camera tools

• animation tools

• scene tools
  DRAW
  Anything that DRAWS geometry or is altering the existing one
  Here we have a caveat: some tools (like artisan) draw geometry based on existing one, but I don't consider it fitted here. Also JPP does similar but still not suitable here. Maybe this needs further studying.

• lines, shapes, 3d (spheres, cubes, x-hedrons)

• draw construction lines

• draw construction points

• convert lines to walls, tubes, frames, surfaces, other shapes

• convert cloud points to surfaces (triangulation, etc)
  TOOLS
  Any tool used to directly interact with geometry

• Scale tools

• sculpt tools, etc

• geometry shape alteration tools - THAT DON'T DRAW new geometry, but only alter the existing one !! If your tool is drawing new geometry (eg. Lines to Tubes) should be under DRAW menu.

• booleanAlso, JPP could get in here, even if under certain condition it will draw new geometry, but that's not its primary function (when thickening option is used, for example)

WINDOW
Any plugin or command whose primary function is to open a window or interacts with a window.

• layer tools?
  EXTENSION
  Complex plugins and extensions that don't offer only one primary function. (eg. Fredo Tools if installed as collection).

• Renderers

• all texture interactions, including UV

• all material interaction (replace, edit,etc)

• purgeOther suggestions please

HELP
All help stuff.
Despite the fact that having multiple menu entries for the same plugin shouldn't be a good idea (should be kept as submenus under the main plugin menu), maybe it would be useful to add the help links here.
Open for suggestions.

Thank you very much. Hope it helps.

First step has been made, by saying this out loud and drawing developer's attention about this issue.
Maybe the second step would be to have a guideline that will describe how a plugin or extension should behave in order to fit in each category.
This way, anyone wants to make a plugin can decide (and then the forum will evaluate that decision) where to put that plugin, in which menu.

@dave r said:

Did you look at the User Guide?

Start reading at the bottom of page 25.

Thank you. For some reason I missed this user guide.

Im trying to use this plugin http://sketchucation.com/plugin/862-dm_curve_maker_plugin and I have hard time with it.
First of all, I tried to draw an Archimedes Spiral, but I don't understand some of the steps implied.

The inputs are as follows:

1. From Turns ( ?? - what is this ?)
2. To Turns ( ?? - and this ?)
3. 1st Radius (i assume is the inner radius)
4. 2nd Radius (outer radius ?)
5. Sider/Turn (segments in each turn)
6. Height (got this)
7. Clockwise (and this too)

Then, I tried to draw a Cornu Spline, I have that blue preview line, i click to add nodes, but I cannot generate the spline. Anything I do, the best, it cancels. Is there a special thing to do, in order to validate it?

Cheers.

@dave r said:

Nothing is preventing you from editing the .rb file and changing it to appear in the draw menu.

Unless the author comes with a update at one point and the old (modified) script is replaced... that was my point. I already edited several of the plugins I use.

Hy to all plugin developers which spend their time and nerves to make beautiful and useful plugins for SketchUp, so our work becomes much easier. I really appreciate this. I tried to join their "squad", but maybe I don't have what it takes... i'm not a very good programmer.

I noticed a (uncanny) trend for plugins to be placed under Tools or Extensions (former Plugins) menus, while letting all other menus almost unpopulated and crowding this two. Many "Drawing" plugins that are NOT under DRAW menu, many "Import/Export" plugins that are not under FILE menu, for camera is the same...

I was wondering if something could be done about this... maybe some of the plugin developers would be willing to rethink their plugin menus locations. I think would be better for everybody to have them more equally distributed, based on their main purpose/functionality.

Thanks a lot for taking this into consideration.