Have you had a model stolen?
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I hope he does as it's paying for my trip to Barbados.
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@unknownuser said:
I hope he does as it's paying for my trip to Barbados.
I almost blew coffee on my keyboard!
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Seems to me that their broker 'Gil Stephane' is being disingenuous.
Taking someone else's 'freely' available work and supplying it to others also freely in OK.
But to charge for it is at the very least immoral.
It comes down to the extent of the copyrighted reuse.
If he had modeled the whole car himself but used your headlights, giving you a credit for your partial contribution, then I think his charging for it might have been fair - as he did most of the work.
BUT when he takes your whole car and adds a few extras onto to it, then his work is less than yours.
That's OK if he agreed with you to share the proceeds in proportion but not to rip you off.You should make representations to Cornucopia3d and/or Gil for reparation !
Alternatively... why not join Cornucopia3d.com and buy your model [~$15].
[Bear with me there is logic in this...]
Immediately become one of their 'brokers' and post the model back [unchanged], but charge about half the price Gil does [~$8].
Stress in your associated notes that it's the exact same model as his - BUT by the original author - 'at half the cost', and of course graciously credit him with the few extras he's added.
You only need to sell two to be in profit thereafter.
People would be stupid to buy the more expensive 'counterfeit' version...
He can't really object since you already 'own' the bulk of the car, and your re-marketing it including a few bits that he made is as nothing to the overall thing...
Because you made the bulk of the car, I think your [re]selling it including his few extras is readily justifiable, as opposed to his position.
Even if you didn't sell many you'd at least feel you 'gave him the finger'...
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According to their Terms of Service, at least the way I read it, selling my models is in violation of the following section, specifically Section (a) --
Copyright
*By uploading files (e.g. images) to this website you:
(a) warrant and represent that the files you upload are original and do not infringe any copyright, trademark, or other intellectual property rights or personal or proprietary rights of any person or entity or contain any scandalous, libelous or unlawful matter, and that the files do not contain any virus or Trojan Horse or other software routine designed to permit unauthorized access, to disable, erase, or otherwise harm software, hardware, or data, and
(b) authorize e-on software to publish and/or distribute such files. This authorization constitutes a perpetual license to publish the files worldwide, in any and all languages, for all formats and in all media now known, or hereafter developed. Such license shall include without limitation, the right to (i) reproduce and duplicate the files, (ii) combine the files with other materials, (iii) rename and/or reorganize the files, and (iv) use any trademarks contained in the files as contemplated by this license.You retain all copyright and intellectual property rights to the files you upload to this community, but you agree that Cornucopia3D management cannot be held responsible for any use of your materials by a third party without your agreement.*
I have sent an email to their "Customer Support Staff", but am not too hopeful. Apparently a lot of their sales inventory is based on stuff taken from the 3D Warehouse, and I doubt they will willingly delete those models when they profit from each sale. We'll see.
Dave, as far as your question about whether I will continue to post my models on the Warehouse so that other people can sell them, well, my situation is somewhat unique in that the Warehouse is my only way of sharing my models. Except for that and these forums no one else will ever see my work (except for my cat, and he doesn't seem to have an opinion). And I have only posted a few of my cars on the Warehouse (so far)
I suppose creating something just for the satisfaction of creating it has it's merits, but let's face it, it's just basic human nature to want to show our "accomplishments" to others. I always hoped that someone would play with my models, customize them, change them like they have with so many others. Well, that hasn't happened, possibly because they are so large. Maybe I should post some "stripped-down" versions, take away all the textures, less detail, whatever.
And, along those lines, I suppose that in some small, perverse way I am honored that someone has deemed my models worthy of being taken, improved and sold. Hey, not every model on the Warehouse has achieved that "honor". But don't get me wrong, I don't like somebody else profiting from my efforts, and I will fight it, if I can, just because what they are doing is basically wrong.
I guess the bottom line (for me) is either take the risk, or just let my work rot here on my computer.
Well, I'm rambling, I'm hungry, gotta feed my brain.
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So from that copyright text, it is clear that the person selling your model is violating their copyright rules. I hope you do get a positive response from their Customer Support Staff.
As to sharing your models, I see your point. Perhaps you could share them via 2D Graphic exports instead of the 3D models. You can make as many views as you deem necessary and put them on an online album to share with others. As Jean would say, "Just ideas."
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@dave r said:
Perhaps you could share them via 2D Graphic exports instead of the 3D models.
I've never really cared for 2D representations of 3D models. The fun of SU is being able to move all around the model, take it apart, change it, paint it... That's why I've never really appreciated the render pgms, they're just fancy photos of the real thing.
I'm hoping eventually they'll come out with some sort of 3D versions of movies. Nah, that'll never happen.
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I've downloaded your models for a peek at your workflow. I've also rendered some for fun. What I'm hoping to happen is that you'll start to learn a render app at some stage as they deserve some loving attention.
You always threaten to but have yet to start. You'll get lots of help here when you do start. Remember, everyone is crap at rendering to begin with. Persistence is key to understanding.
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Maybe I should download your models and make hand drawn sketches of them.
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As I was reading along, it occurred to me, hellnbak, you should try perhaps Shaderlight, which appears to be a "paint" as you go type of render app. Or if not that, to start with Kerkythea, as I have begun to do. I fully appreciate your comment there about the aesthetics of the modeling experience itself.
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Actually I'm a little ashamed of the first few models I posted on the warehouse, they aren't all that good as far as technique and execution. Well, not really ashamed I guess, as I was just learning. Just wish they had turned out better. I've made a better version of the 56 Ford but haven't gotten around to posting it. It's very difficult for me to make that final click that uploads something to the Warehouse, guess that's why I have uploaded so few of them.
It's one of those "See what I've done, but please don't look!" kinda things I guess
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Steve, just a thought...what about contacting the person selling your models, and tell him that you have more that he could sell, but those ones will need to be purchased from you. In other words, sell him a license to distribute the models for you. He'll do the work you don't want to - like promotion of models, converting to other formats, upload to other sites, etc, and pay you a one-time fee (or a percentage of each sold, but I don't know how you'd track that). That way you both gain. You could think of your models on the warehouse as a free sample of your models, and even say that in the description of the warehouse model.
This may be totally missing the reason you share you models, but could be a way to 'think outside the box'. Another option (similar to what TIG suggested) is just to do all that work yourself.
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Some time back I d/l'd from the warehouse a Lockheed C5 Galaxy model I needed for my big airplane project (size comparison only). I spent almost a whole day cleaning it up and correcting some technical errors, affecting about 60% of the model. (I'm not an accuracy nut, but some stuff ya gotta fix!
)I then reposted the update, BUT I gave full credit to the originator in my notes. That's only the right thing to do.
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@d12dozr said:
Steve, just a thought...what about contacting the person selling your models, and tell him that you have more that he could sell, but those ones will need to be purchased from you. In other words, sell him a license to distribute the models for you. He'll do the work you don't want to - like promotion of models, converting to other formats, upload to other sites, etc, and pay you a one-time fee (or a percentage of each sold, but I don't know how you'd track that). That way you both gain. You could think of your models on the warehouse as a free sample of your models, and even say that in the description of the warehouse model.
This may be totally missing the reason you share you models, but could be a way to 'think outside the box'. Another option (similar to what TIG suggested) is just to do all that work yourself.
Thanks for the suggestions, but, for me, the whole idea of selling a model is just not me. It would put a whole new flavor on my modeling experience, would put a hint of "work" into my "fun", if that makes any sense. But your idea does sound like a good one, and maybe somebody else who's models are being sold could give this approach a try.
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@mitcorb said:
As I was reading along, it occurred to me, hellnbak, you should try perhaps Shaderlight, which appears to be a "paint" as you go type of render app. Or if not that, to start with Kerkythea, as I have begun to do. I fully appreciate your comment there about the aesthetics of the modeling experience itself.
I have installed Kerkythea, mainly to try some clay renders. I like clay renders, some of them posted on the forum are fantastic. Have had mixed success with that, mainly because I cannot get the lighting to work for me. Another reason I decided to give KT a try is because the last few models I have made were black, and painting a car (or anything) black in SU is very difficult. You've got to just go with a gray or they look like an ink blob, and I wanted to see what they would look like painted a proper black if they were rendered. Have had no luck with that.
For now I'm just modeling. Maybe I'll give KT another try at some point.
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Hi.
Have you looked at the tutorials on KT's Forum? There is a pdf for getting started and in it I believe lighting is discussed. You may want to use SU2KT plugin to facilitate export for rendering. -
You might want to look at creating 3D PDFs from your work, that way they are viewable as SU models but you aren't giving the model itself away.
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Just received an email in response to my complaint --
*Hi Stephen,
Thank you for contacting us. Can you provide some screenshots or other proof of your ownership of these items? Once we have that information from you, we can investigate on our end with the brokered artist.
Kind regards,
ChristieK*I sent her about a dozen screenshots of the cars in various stages of development. Now I wait.
Mitcorb, yes, I have downloaded every KT tutorial I could find, and also bought and studied the book SketchUp 7.1 for Architectural Visualization: Beginner's Guide, which uses KT for all of it's renderings. I think I'm just too old to figure out all the why's and wherefore's of something new
Same reason I can't seem to figure out all the plugins I should be using but can't.Box, I have seen some 3D PDF's, and while they are better than just photos, they still can't come close to the real 3D model. But thanks for the suggestion.
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Don't forget that you already posted it here too, with dated posts/images [as independent proof] AND their broker Gil also names you as the main author in his notes anyway !
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Here http://creativecommons.org/is a good resource related with the matter at hand. Following the links provide lots of reading and thinking material... Disclaimer: from this point on it is only my opinion and I may be wrong. 3D warehouse license term is like CC0 (you give away every right yet you retain the copyright (not very meaningful)), except CC0 disallows the derivative work to be DRM'ed (digital rights managed), 3d warehouse is even more liberal, does not have anti DRM restriction.
@hellnbak: I do hope that you scare those guys out of distributing your work. For high octane modelers like you, I think a sketchup model dissemination website where the uploader can choose one of the 6 creative commons licenses, is needed. I am still waiting for one of my models to be stolen, no such luck.
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