SketchUp 2013 ;)
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@unknownuser said:
Does anyone seriously believe that a Free version of anything should be available for Professional use ?
If you want to make money from it, pay for it.....it's quite simple....!
I seriously do... Even though I pay for Pro. I think that making certain tools only available to the pros limits the abuse, while allowing people from poorer countries and those with very small companies that are struggling in these hard times to build their respective businesses. They need every penny they can get. Do you realize how much money $600.00 is to an Indian or Pakistani?
In previous versions it's not like the free people were getting much out of it. No Layout, no DWG export, No solids tools... I'm sure I'm missing a few things. But then after that there are the part time developers, We will push some away to free programs if we force them to pay for something they really don't use to make money.
Personally, I liked the way it was. Pay for Pro and use SU "Make" for free.
MAKE SketchUp "Make" Free!
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@archheni said:
Where is the performance boost, multicore support, 64bit, stability, polycount etc..?
3 of the 5 have been addressed in this version and the other 2 have been beaten like a dead horse in here with many of our top SketchUp minds saying it's unneeded.
I have a 64bit multi-core system with 32 gigs of ram... If they make it 64 bit I'm not going to complain, but I don't know that I have seen anyone prove Thom, John and the others wrong. And obviously a International Power House of a Company that has tons of other construction related software didn't see the reasoning either.
I defer on that matter to more informed minds.
Speaking of those minds. I have spoken with Bacus a few times, one of the few CEO's/ Managers/Decision makers (what ever he is), of software that I own that has ever given much of a crap about what I or anyone in some forum on the internet thinks. I have always found him to be forthright, polite and interested in our ideas. I have 0% interest in seeing him leave SketchUp. This can be said of many of the employees of SU, I see many of them here and they are always looking to help or listen. The choices they make afterward are up to them and their business model. I appreciate being heard.
I'm not excited about this release either and I'm not "defending" it... I'm defending the software as a whole. Frankly, it feels like a maintenance release, however the backside changes seem to be impressive and the improvement in stability was needed badly. Whatsmore I needed these layout changes like yesterday.
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Well then can somebody please show and explain the full list of those 3 improvements? What exactly has been improved in terms of performance? How does it effect the workflow? Do plugins get executed faster now? Does SU still crashes or freezes when running out of memory?
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I believe there are a few other threads with the more background based stuff going on right now, I'll look to find them and update this. So far I have had one crash, but I wasn't working in SU when it happened. Things seem faster and more stable to me. Opening the program is faster. I think I heard Chris Fullmer say they rebuilt the whole thing, but like I said I don't follow software coding talk. Plugins do seem to execute faster, like profile builder builds detailed crowns much faster now. I don't know that workflow is affected... Except for Layout Improvements.
I think this is one where they discuss background stuff.
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It is easy to test performance because you can have v8 and v2013 installed in tandem.
I personally don't see the improvement in speed. I know startup times are reduced and the whole UI got a much needed face lift.
Sent from my iPad
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If there are improvements, why don't they tell us about it?
How am I (i'm not using Layout) going to convince my boss to buy the new version?
"Well...eh, it starts faster" is not going to be enough to convince him. -
Doesn't the blog tell you LayOut has a 40% speed improvement and another level of zoom?
I haven't read it.
What I typical measure in a new release is mesh selection speeds. V7.1 is still the fastest when making selections. V2013 is slower than v8.
File import speeds are the same and still incredibly slow.
Mesh generation is faster. Things like Artisan and CurviLoft are faster.
Toolbar fixing is a big deal but the padding around the toolbars is larger so real estate is chewed up a bit.
Did you not run the trial?
Sent from my iPad
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@thomthom said:
And another thing - it was in April 2012 that SketchUp became part of Trimble. That just a little bit over a year from which they got new owners with new goals.
I see this release as turning around a big ship.
Yes, maybe... but this is no reason for me to sell such a small improvement as full update!
This is a tiny service release not more. If the big new features are not ready now why release a full number update at all now? To make money? If i don't get anything new, why should i pay for Trimble's development cost?!? This happens if the new features get released. Is this Kickstarter or what? Will i get a T-shirt when i buy an update? -
@numerobis said:
This is a tiny service release not more. If the big new features are not ready now why release a full number update at all now? To make money?
Because many customers would probably be more annoyed if they had to wait until 2014 for the first true Trimble release? I think it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for the developers. Releasing a lacklustre version now is probably better than a late 2013 release or no update at all this year.
Also, it wouldn't surprise me if we were to see a major maintenance release towards the end of the year (when the real improvements are ready
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@rich o brien said:
Doesn't the blog tell you LayOut has a 40% speed improvement and another level of zoom?
I haven't read it.
What I typical measure in a new release is mesh selection speeds. V7.1 is still the fastest when making selections. V2013 is slower than v8.
File import speeds are the same and still incredibly slow.
Mesh generation is faster. Things like Artisan and CurviLoft are faster.
Toolbar fixing is a big deal but the padding around the toolbars is larger so real estate is chewed up a bit.
Did you not run the trial?
As I said, if there are improvements to SketchUp (I'm not using Layout) why don't they tell us?
Why do we have to test and guess what has been improved?
Don't they know that many users will have to go to their boss and ask to buy a new version and that we need to have solid arguments to why the upgrade is necessary?
I'm not saying I'm disapointed or anything, I just want some facts (about SketchUp fixes) I can tell my boss or I will not be allowed to buy the new version. -
@pixero said:
As I said, if there are improvements to SketchUp (I'm not using Layout) why don't they tell us?
Why do we have to test and guess what has been improved?
Don't they know that many users will have to go to their boss and ask to buy a new version and that we need to have solid arguments to why the upgrade is necessary?
I'm not saying I'm disapointed or anything, I just want some facts (about SketchUp fixes) I can tell my boss or I will not be allowed to buy the new version.Here... I think this is what you're looking for.
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Thanks for the link. Now let's see if it's good enough for my boss...
I would have liked if they had detailed this a bit more though:
"Lots of little tweaks, bugs fixes and improvements were made to existing features." -
@krisidious said:
Plugins do seem to execute faster, like profile builder builds detailed crowns much faster now.
A question for you: when you select a profile, you have a preview image visible? I was missing mine during a test run.
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@hieru said:
Because many customers would probably be more annoyed if they had to wait until 2014 for the first true Trimble release? I think it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for the developers. Releasing a lacklustre version now is probably better than a late 2013 release or no update at all this year.
Also, it wouldn't surprise me if we were to see a major maintenance release towards the end of the year (when the real improvements are ready
).You are kidding, right? Why should i be less annoyed getting this useless update now?
If i don't have anything to show i can't release an update. Why should i buy this update? Only because Trimble means i should do it now? To get a new Trimble folder on my ssd instead of the google one? -
@archheni said:
What exactly has been improved in terms of performance? How does it effect the workflow? Do plugins get executed faster now? Does SU still crashes or freezes when running out of memory?
Actually, there are indications that plugins execute faster. Though I'm not sure what internal change it's related to. But some early profiling show in some cases show improvement. I plan to run some comparison tests soon.
And there are several bugsplat issues that's been fixed. -
The splats when you applied materials with certain render apps installed is gone. I suffered from this with Indigo at times
View > Toolbars is gone and replaced with an alphabetically sorted dialog to toggle toolbars on and off
The SDK for devs is rewritten
Getting started toolbar has changed along with the order of icons in the Camera Tools and Large Toolset
New cursors with tooltips and description on hover
New material libraries Geometric Tiles, Material symbols and Tonal Patterns
Networked startup times improved
HD animation export
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@kaas said:
@krisidious said:
Plugins do seem to execute faster, like profile builder builds detailed crowns much faster now.
A question for you: when you select a profile, you have a preview image visible? I was missing mine during a test run.
you need to replace a java file in your installation. more info here.
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Well, money speaks. If you don't feel SU2013 is worth it you can hold on until the next release.
I personally find the EW alone is worth it. I've nver been much of Layout user - but I do appreciate the changes.
But as always with these things - mileage will vary.
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@krisidious said:
you need to replace a java file in your installation. more info here.
Thanks, it worked.
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@mike lucey said:
I've been reading / following all the posts made on this topic and feel that most of the steam has now blown off. Regardless of what one thinks or doesn't think about SU 2013, I feel there is no excuse for your, what appears to me, personal attack on John Bacus.
Long post and certainly alot to digest so let me reciprocate.
First off, let my say clearly I left here after those last posts and never came back until 2013 was released... and I only came back to make it absolutely crystal clear that this release was deficient. You can check the forum logs if you like to verify this as fact.
John Bacus is the head -- ultimately he is the one responsible for everything that the SketchUp team does or does not do do... when things go well he deserved credit, when things go wrong he deserves blame.
When a company goes down the tubes it is expected that a CEO gets fired or steps down -- this is no different. I'm sure Bacus is a very nice guy with alot of really endearing qualities -- but he has proven an incompetent leader of the SketchUp team at the very least.
There are alot of people here with ulterior motives to stay on his good side, it is of personal and professional benefit to them that he, being the man in power, see them as "on his side". I have no such limitation -- so I am free, in all the ways you are not, to voice my 100% honest opinions. I actually expected to be banned by now... I can't imagine Bacus is happy about some guy on the forums calling, repeated and clearly, for his head
I've always been 100% for forcing users to move to Pro -- check the posts and verify the facts. But there is a right way and a wrong way to do this. The right way is to make the upgrade to Pro so compelling that users cannot resists opening their wallets. This is done by adding actual features and really honoring the desires of the users base. The wrong way is what we got -- judge for yourself.
I'm not opposed to spending real money on my applications, provided they are worthwhile -- SketchUp is not and has not been worthwhile for a long time now. Are there perfect alternatives? Not really, but those alternatives will never have the chance to fully materialize as long as people keep throwing good money after bad towards SketchUp.
To be perfectly blunt I would have rather see SketchUp die at this point and have the market forced to move onto alternatives now, rather than wait years only to have the process be that much harder in the long run. Not a popular sentiment here, I know -- but I'm not here to win any friends, and I don't care a whit if I make enemies. However I always hope against hope that I will become such an foul irritant, and Bacus will be so put out, that he will actually do something productive with SketchUp just to shut me up.
Best,
Jason.
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