@driven said:

@jody
here's a question...
the license is valid for two computers, one dies, could I go to the license on the survivor and 'unset the licence' for the dead computer???
john

Hi John,

For a dead computer there isn't really a way to re-claim that license, it's tied specifically to that computer. If you end up with a dead computer as cadmunkey did then you'd need to contact us to get your seat count adjusted. I did check with the rest of the support team and it sounds like we already got him straightened out which must be why he hasn't revisited this thread. It's a pretty quick fix on our end, it's just not automatic so might be a bit cumbersome when you're in the middle of a project.

@garry k said:

I tie my software to a computer - however - I offer the ability to reset the account. Then the next computer that runs the software with the user id and password locks to the license. This allows for upgrading / dying motherboards and prevents the user from running it on 2 machines.

The other thing to note is that my software ranges from 20.00 Canadian to 50.00 depending on what you are getting. Also I have a few hundred licensed customers - not upwards of millions.

This is actually how the SketchUp license works as well. If you're able to use SketchUp (which obviously doesn't work with a dead motherboard) then you can go into the License manager and unset a license. You will only bump into a message that the number has been exceeded if the license has been applied to multiple computers. While we aspire to meet what the customer needs, there must be a line in the sand somewhere or people will just install SketchUp on every computer they touch, leading to unintended uses.

Cadmunkey, if you contact support via our form and explain the computers you currently have it set up on and why you need an additional seat the team should be able to help you out, noting that there are the restrictions which sketch3d.de mentioned from the license agreement.

There isn't really a case where we'll add more seats if you're trying to outfit a lab full of computers with one license or even on more computers than expected for a lone individual.

If your reseller simply ceases to sell SketchUp and you have no upgrade path then you should be able to use our upgrade wizard to upgrade instead. That is found here: https://store.sketchup.com/

If you purchased through a Reseller but instead would prefer to purchase through us then you may need to contact our Sales folks and talk with them about the change. You can reach our Sales team at http://help.sketchup.com/en/contact

Hope that helps!

I ran the upgrade from Lion to Mountain Lion on Friday and it did it quite seamlessly, my existing apps converted just fine. It seems like Apple's new plan is to encourage upgrading between versions as opposed to the older model of doing a wipe and clean install. In fact I'm not sure how you could do a clean install with Mountain Lion unless you get one of the apps to convert it to a USB/DVD image that you could then reboot with.

Personally I turned off the Gatekeeper, their new forced approval process for installing new apps that aren't in the App store but thats my preference.

As far as SketchUp running on Mountain Lion, I haven't bumped into anything yet and as noted elsewhere in the forum, this update for Safari/WebKit fix a bug that Apple introduced in May with an update to Safari on Lion & Snow Leopard. With Mountain Lion I no longer have black web dialog text boxes. Yaaay.

Thanks Christophe, this definitely bears investigation. It looks like there are a number of graphics driver updates for OpenGL in 10.6.7 so its not totally surprising that things changed. It is unfortunate that the change is for the worse though. (I'm also surprised to see how far Intel has come with 3D acceleration, I used to be able to dismiss anything with an Intel video card without further thought.)

We'll have to keep digging to see whats happening.

Out of curiousity, does functionality change if you have the Shadows Fix enabled or disabled?

Thanks,
Jody

Hi Edson et al,

I've tried as well with your exact steps and its working for me as well.

What kind of Mac are you using Edson?
Do you know the video card?
Do you have Hardware Acceleration enabled?

I can't figure what could be conflicting, maybe a Ruby script. Do you have anything non-standard installed? If you remove all 3rd party Ruby scripts does it still happen?

OS X 10.6.6
SU 8.0.4810
Processor: 2.53 GHz Intel Core i5
Memory: 4 Gb
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M

Jody

Pursuant to the notion that development has ceased:

http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30490

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

(sketchup.google.com)

We're here, we're still working, most of the SketchUp team is still from the "@Last Posse" and many of those who left SketchUp are still technically here but working on things like the 3DWarehouse and Building Maker. (c: Also still developing.

On top of that, today is day one of our 2010 3D Basecamp. (c:

http://sites.google.com/site/3dbasecamp2010/

See you there! (If you're here to be there...)

Jody

So, I don't know how I missed this last summer but its great...

http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=20076

Maybe we can find a different model though, or a way to report out some system specs while also grabbing this data. Sadly I'm no Ruby guru so it might take some time. I do like the idea of any sort of benchmark tools like this so we can have an absolute value type response for different systems. (Incidentally my Core2 Duo MacBook Pro gets about 14.7 FPS from that test.)

I might re-phrase this question (which as I've said is very valuable and still is) in a new post as soon as I better define how people can gather information. This is great for general speed, I need to figure out a test for exports and for imports. (What am I forgetting that we want to test on for a whole-view of performance in SketchUp?)

Cheers,
Jody

Thanks everyone for this great feedback. I'm still pumping it into my document and rolling along. I'm blown away by the 8.7m edged model and and am happy to hear that you're still a fan of SketchUp while working at that size! Most users (as has been seen since that post) don't approach that size and get frustrated well before they get there. In your case, Jopsa2 it looks like avoiding materials for as long as possible is a win, and then patience as you allow SketchUp to render. I'd think Sandbox tools could benefit from Multi-Core if you allow that it still has to bake, and of course the same for output to video or raster.

The changing over time in this thread really illustrates that its a hard question to define and to answer. The tips for modeling smarter are further proof to that and in their own way define limitations as well. Every post has been helpful so far (even those that wander into dislike of SketchUp.

Right now I'm looking at 3 key areas that need definition to help new users:

File Limitations, these are things like file imports and exports, what you add to or take away from the process.

Usage Limitations, things that are generally handled with smarter modeling. You might call it the educational limitation as not everyone has these problems and many power users find a way to overcome them.

Functional Limitations, SketchUp just doesn't create circles without segments, it won't model well under 1mm, and it really doesn't like models that are miles in scope.

Some of these are constant problems that we're aware of and constantly trying to fix, some of these are the result of SketchUp being so useful that people want it to do more than it was ever intended to do, and some of it is new information that its hard to see in a QA lab. I'm hoping to build some test case files based on this feedback and may do a new post in the near future with those files to see about getting a performance test from users of varying computational power or skill sets.

Until that time, I'm still reading and still quite appreciative of this data. Thanks everyone for your feedback so far. (c:

Thanks for the responses folks, there is some great info so far. Same with the questions, I'm also trying to hone in on what i'm asking for as well. At the end of the day I want to have a set of boundaries for new users to help get them rolling, ideally it will help make better best practices as well. If I get my drothers then we might also someday see a dialog in SketchUp when you start to "over do it" with your imports or exports. I think the new SketchUppers would benefit by the dialog that says "You're about to import a 45Mb DWG, please be aware that this could take a while or possibly fail. Are you sure you wish to continue." Or something akin to that.

This is a VERY hard list to build as there are so many variations that make the lines more blurry. I very clean DWG might import fine, or a DWG from AutoCAD may perform better than a DWG from Revit. I think we could get a loose set of guidelines that accounts for this. Here is my completely off the top of my head version of the questions I asked at the beginning.

1. What is the largest SketchUp file you've created? Would you consider it to be efficiently made (a healthy file?) Could you make it smaller? What aspects did you "write off" and just not usable in that large file? How many edges did it have? Faces? Materials?
*- 120 Mb SKP created or edited (these are customer files I've worked with)

• Some Yes & Some No
• Usually Yes
• Shadows, Materials, Some Styles, some Layers
• Largest I've seen 2 million+ edges (forgot faces, I always look at edges as my complexity gauge)
• Hundreds*
  2. What is the largest file you've imported into SketchUp? What kind of file was it? Did you have to alter the file any before you got it to actually import into SketchUp? Did you have to do much clean-up on the file once it was in SketchUp?
  *- DWG/DXF - 30-40 Mb // JPG/PNG - 5-10 Mb // TIFF - 10 Mb
  Before
• DWG I don't create DWG anywhere but SketchUp but have worked with many DWG that needed cleanup before its used, usually to remove BIM data
• Raster - I often try to reduce the raster image file size before importing, or crop it to just the data I need
  After
• DWG - I always clean up after import, removing unnecessary lines, fill faces, purge or combine layers
• Raster Images - nothing to clean up, just position*
  3. Whats the largest file you've exported from SketchUp? What kind of file did you create? How long did the export take? Did it export successfully on the first try or did you have to adjust your file or export settings some before it worked?
  *- Largest exports are always animations though I have no hard numbers. Generally a complex animation is 100Mb+ and takes 1+ hours to export. When I can't export I start turning off export settings before altering the file.
• Usually if edits need to be made to the actual file its because the SKP is large/complex and "messy" (bad layer usage, possible flakey geometry such as tesselated faces or unnecessary geometry disconnected from the main drawing.*

To be continued...

I think I'm going to do all of my analysis and comparisons off of what we recommend and what we list as minimum in the Help Center here: http://sketchup.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=36208

I figure if it breaks the top end then it will break the bottom and if it runs poorly on top then it will run worse than poorly, or break the minimum. ie. I'll look into testing most hypothesis against our proposed idea.

I'll post my results as they become meaningful in here and/or the other forum (linked up top.)

My initial intent was to build a list of hard numbers, engineers being engineers they balk at there being a limit. There definitely isn't anything encoded as a maximum (other than the insert material already mentioned) and I want to have a soft list that can educate new users (there seem to be more of them every day.)

Ultimately though, after I'd spent some time internally getting opinions, I'm hoping by having something conclusive that we can better focus on what "make SketchUp faster" means and have a better list of things to fix. At the end of the day I'll be happy if I have a list that any SketchUp user can look at and say "try to stay in these lines and you'll be happy." Of course these are moving numbers based on the computer power at hand, but if we can find a number for bleeding edge, average, and old that'll be great.

My initial request is more or less to find a breaking point, but if in getting that number I also find a "SketchUp is starting to suck" point then it'll be good to have. Chances are that the "suck" point for a bleeding edge computer is probably a break point for an old computer.

(Was that clear enough, I'm proving quite capable at rambling without making a point specific to this topic.)

Good question thom, I guess both are relevant though I was looking for byte size. I have always balked at anything bigger than 3000k on a side but if there is a thread about that'd be great info to consider as well.

Re-post from SketchUp Forum - http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/sketchup/thread?tid=71d09ddcd7d53100&hl=en

Hi Folks,

I'm working on defining thresholds in SketchUp before files become prone to crashing, corruption, or just too cumbersome to use so we can have a more clearly defined set of limitations to hand to new users. If we can really get a consensus on what those numbers are then I can start talking to engineers about warning users when they're about to exceed them. This is all Jody's Project (tm) but hopefully I can build a case for a better SketchUp.

I started my original post off a bit to vague so I've come up with a specific questionnaire.

1. What is the largest SketchUp file you've created? Would you consider it to be efficiently made (a healthy file?) Could you make it smaller? What aspects did you "write off" and just not usable in that large file? How many edges did it have? Faces? Materials?

2. What is the largest file you've imported into SketchUp? What kind of file was it? Did you have to alter the file any before you got it to actually import into SketchUp? Did you have to do much clean-up on the file once it was in SketchUp?

3. Whats the largest file you've exported from SketchUp? What kind of file did you create? How long did the export take? Did it export successfully on the first try or did you have to adjust your file or export settings some before it worked?

Thanks,
Jody

ps. I'm asking you, the users, because there really isn't a hard coded threshold in SketchUp but people still ask me "Whats the biggest image I can import?" often enough that this needs an answer.

Oh look at this over here, people are responding on the topic as well.

I've seen a couple of references now to making the Menu more obvious to new members. That definitely makes sense. Gmail has a funny thing it does where when you get to 0 emails in your Inbox you get an apology that there doesn't appear to be anything to read, then refers you to Google Reader. I could see the SketchUp > Plugins menu have a link that does something similar.

I'm not sure if it was strategic, but I can also see where not having plugins visible at the beginning is a good thing as it adds another layer of complexity to learning SketchUp. I guess the hard part is how to talk to a user after they've been using SketchUp for a while. Maybe we count down the amount of time you've been using SketchUp (just like we do for the Free Trial) and after you've used SketchUp for 20 hours we encourage using x feature. I guess there are lots of things that could watch what you're doing and encourage you to branch out if you haven't used the feature. (Sorry, I wander off on tangents sometime.)

I like the work put into the menu system Chris, I presume you're using that in a plugin you've created? (Or is SketchUp not capable of doing that?)

Hi Aerilius,

Thanks for the link over to the other thread. I'm not quite sure how to read the eye-rolling emoji regarding my frankness but figured I'd chime in here too. Everything I'm talking about there is opinion with no real basis on an engineer's ear. I know that Ruby scripting is a very important part of SketchUp which we take very seriously, but I don't have the roadmap for what is coming and when or if I did, I certainly didn't reveal my hand. I really just want to see what everyone is thinking about plugins, I've seen too many email/posts from users who express frustration that we (Google) didn't make x tool before a plug-in developer and imply that our engineers aren't working hard enough. Anyway, I know there are plenty of opinions on Plugins at SketchUcation so hopefully they'll be added to the threads. (c:

Thanks again,
Jody

Hi Filip K,

I didn't see it as I scrolled through, but its always a great place to start when having rendering issues (on screen or off.) Try disabling Hardware Acceleration and see if the problem persists.

To turn the Hardware Acceleration option off:

1. Open the "SketchUp" menu.
2. Click "Preferences".
3. In the left pane, click "OpenGL".
4. In the right pane, clear the "Use Hardware Acceleration" check box.

This eliminates the possibility that its an issue with your graphics driver. You mentioned being on a new iMac, which size is it? Which version of OS X do you have installed?

Jody

Hi Hombre,

Chris and Gaieus are both right, there is typically a fee of $50 to convert your license from one platform to another and you have to call in to make that change. However, when you're upgrading from one version to the next we'll wave the conversion fee since you're already paying for the upgrade. You can call in to make a license change at (303)245-0086. If you make the change hate Windows or miss OS X you would have to call in again and have to pay $50 to change it back.

Hope that helps,
Jody

Looks like you guys got it all figured out, the issue is exactly that the video card isn't handling OpenGL properly. There are several potential gotchas that can lead to this behavior:

1. Video card just doesn't support OpenGL (Intel video cards, boo!)
2. The OS driver doesn't support OpenGL (Windows Vista, boo!)
3. The manufacturer video card driver doesn't properly handle OpenGL.
4. The video card is old, supports OpenGL, but doesn't have a current driver.

The fixes, as stated already, are to get the most current driver for the video card directly from the manufacturer or just Disable Hardware Acceleration. This problem wasn't a "Reverse Driver Picking" issue but specific to the driver recognizing the face altogether. Its been around for years and just changes a little as the video cards evolve. Glad its all working properly now!

Hi troyhome,

This is actually an issue with Mac settings for keyboard shortcuts. If you go to System Preferences > Keyboard & Mouse > Keyboard Shortcuts and change the setting to "All Controls" then it should get you back in business.