@solo said:

Just thinking aloud before even looking... have you used cleanup tools? what about the photo textures? they probably weigh a lot.

Which cleanup tools are you referring to? As far as the textures, I try to keep their size to a minimum, reducing their JPEG quality as much as possible while still achieving the result I want. And yes, they do weigh a LOT, I've done that KMZ thing and sometimes they account for a quarter of the file size (or more). But hey, that's the only way I enjoy modelling, so it's something I have to live with. I'm looking for other ways to cut down the file size, and I know that my modelling techniques are far from efficient. That's where I need help.

I really need some help and advice on how to model more efficiently, and thus reduce my file sizes. I know that a lot of my file size is due to the number of textures I use, but I also know that a more experienced modeller could produce the same model much more efficiently, with a much lower poly count. I'm using every trick that I know of, but I'm really struggling to keep my models under the warehouse size limit, and it gets very frustrating at times. If possible, could someone take a look at my '56 Ford model in the warehouse http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=af13c8c266cbb1d1c5ac8ef48cf8e67d&prevstart=0, and maybe offer some advice? Because of it's size I can't upload it here, and don't know how to make it available other than the warehouse. Thanks in advance.

(there will be a check for a million dollars in the mail to anyone taking the time and trouble to help me out. just don't cash it till after payday)

I've modified the model a bit for rendering purposes - black gaps around the hood, trunk, doors and fenderskirts so they don't disappear when rendered. Also modeled the tire treads - this is kinda fun, although I'll bet it was a lot more difficult before the days of Joint Push/Pull. The biggest problem is modeling the side chrome, getting the various edges and shapes to stand out and be distinct. Also working to reduce the file size. If you want the new model, let me know.

@unknownuser said:

really nice model A real quick and dirty render. Colours may not be to your liking though?
Will play with this more tomorrow.

Thanks Rich. Looks good, but the front tire looks out of place, too far out from the body, and where did the tire treads go? I know I'm poor, but bald tires? I think I know what happened, you rendered the tires and the treads weren't modeled, just textures applied. As far as the colors, that's the fun thing about putting it out there, anybody can do anything they want to it. Looking forward to seeing what you can do with the beast. Right now I'm working on a Crown Vic version, will post it when it's ready. BTW, what renderer do you use?

Against my better judgement, I have uploaded my '56 Ford to the Warehouse. Still needs some work, but thought I'd throw it out there to see reactions/opinions.

@gaieus said:

Ehm... Once I spent a whole day creating this post:
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=1398

Jeez, don't know how I missed this. Great post, lots of useful info there, thanks!

Very useful information, much appreciated. Is this information contained somewhere in the forums? If not, shouldn't it be?

Thanks. Why can't it just say so when you hover over the icon?

I've searched the forums and can't find the answer to this, so here's another dumb question. What do the various icons to the left of a topic mean? When I hover my mouse over them, several of them say "New Posts" and several of them say "No New Posts". There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it. I'm especially interested in the one with the black asterisk in the top left corner, several of my posts have that icon there, and I don't know why.

@gistman said:

Yes- I know exactly what you're talking about. You see someone like Solo and you just want to quit- but actually I think it makes you try harder. PLUS, one thing about this forum, is that if you ask for help you'll usually get more help than you need. We all make each other better by sharing...

I've been thinking about this, and even tho I haven't using SU for all that long, things that would have puzzled me and taken forever to get done just a couple of months ago are much easier and faster for me to do now. Seeing as how Solo and the other really great modellers have been at it much longer than I have, it's only natural that they should produce much better stuff than I do, and more of it. I'm certainly not saying that I will ever be as good as them, but with time I will improve. And I'm not saying that quantity is even important to me, I was just a little discouraged that it's still taking so long for me to get some things done. Besides, it would be just dumb for me to give up on something that's so much fun.

@gistman said:

I think you might be too hard on yourself. I took another look a one of your images. I think you'd be surprised just how nicely those models would render. I would suggest downloading Kerkythea and a few of the car specific materials from the forum- as it's free and has a great forum like the one here at SketchUcation.

You might be right. I've always been a bit of a perfectionist, and I probably won't ever be totally happy with my cars. As far as using a render program, I do have IDX Renditioner Pro. I didn't get it to render my cars, just to do some of the chrome trim and emblems that I can't find decent photos of. Actually I've only used it for that twice so far, not all that happy with the results. I've pretty much given up on Renditioner tho, mainly because it just doesn't have the support that other render programs has. The forum isn't that great, and they don't seem to be very supportive of "noobies". I do have Kerkythea installed but have only played with it a couple of times. Maybe I'll take another look at it, probably should.

And you're definitely right about this forum, it is fantastic. So many people jumped right in to help me during my days of dumb questions. If it hadn't been for them I'm sure I would have given up not long after discovering SU.

Here's a shot of a '58 I'm working on. Still kinda clunky, parts and pieces missing, very few textures applied yet, just threw in some seats from another model. I'm making it showroom new of course, I just put some of my "hotrod" wheels on it for the heck of it.

Jeez, I'm in the middle of a huge thunderstorm here, I hope my computer doesn't get fried. I should probably sign off and unplug everything.

@gistman said:

hellnbak- As for the sculpting tools- A few of them might help you with some of the complex geometry. But then again you seem to be doing quite well with out them.
Please forgive me if I'm pointing out the obvious with some of these links.

I do use some of Fredo6's tools, Joint Push and Pull, Round Corner, I also use Tools On Surface when I can but it seems to be very twitchy a lot of the time. I also have Artisan, but haven't found the time to get really familiar with it yet, I need to do that.

Actually the plugin I use the most (by far) is a simple little plugin called Nudge. I'd be lost without it.

Like you, I'd be lost without the fantastic plugins made available for SU users. Most of them I don't use a lot, but when I do need them I can't imagine having to do without them.

You're right about Solo, he is an incredibly talented modeler. When I look at the work of artists like him and then I look at my work, I'm almost tempted to throw in the towel. Seriously. If I live to be 200 I know I'll never come close their unbelievable work, and I get very discouraged sometimes. And they somehow combine quality with quantity. Seems like they must knock out a model an hour. How do they do it???? Seriously, how do they manage to produce so many fantastic models? And here I am plodding along trying to get the front end of my '58 Chevy to look sort of like the real thing.

@gistman said:

Oh- and for the renderings, I bet there are quite a few people who's mouths are already watering wanting to get their hands on those models so they can render them. Maybe I, or someone can post a link to a download in the Kerkythea and Thea forums and we can form an thread just of your car renderings?

I certainly would have no objections to anybody rendering my models, or doing whatever they want to them. But they are not ready for that, they need a lot of work yet. With warm weather finally coming to Michigan I have a lot of outdoor chores to take care of, and it's taking away a lot of my SU time.

Well, as always I really appreciate your comments and suggestions. Gotta go rebuild the carb on my lawn tractor, the fun never ends.

@simon b said:

Among the best car models I have ever seen in SketchUp - well done! Love to see more.

Could you please post a couple of views with hidden geometry revealed?

It would be very informative for other members

Thanks, not sure I deserve such high praise.

Here are some hidden geometry shots. I've been reluctant to post them, my modelling techniques are still pretty sloppy compared to some I've seen in the Warehouse. Hopefully I'll refine them as time goes by. I use mirroring whenever possible and a lot of component copying to keep my file size down. I keep each model below the Warehouse minimum, even if I don't upload them I figure it's just good discipline.

Right now I'm working on finishing the interior in the '61 Chevy. I love detailing the interiors, it's something you don't see much of for some reason. Just for kicks I include an Owners Manual in the glovebox of each car. Now if only I could figure out a way to get that "new car smell" in them

Included a shot of a '60 Chevy I'm working on. It's in it's very early stages and very rough so don't look too closely.

My kingdom for a time machine. I really want to go back to the sixties.

Any suggestions on how I might improve my techniques are welcome and would be much appreciated. I'm a thick-skinned old fart so don't worry about offending me

@gistman said:

Wow- those look great. The texturing looks really well done as well. I never get tired of looking at those classic cars. I guess you've seen some of the sculpting tools plug-ins?

Thanks. Getting the textures right has been a real challenge, but I've developed a technique that works for me. Which sculpting tool plug-ins are you referring to? I don't use many plug-ins.

@gistman said:

I'm curious how many hours you have in those?

I really have no idea, I've found that it's better (for me at least) to work on 3 or 4 different models at once, that way I don't get burned out on any one model and I can come back to it with a fresh eye. I'm not a particularly fast modeler, but I think I'm improving a little as I gain some experience.

@gistman said:

Are we going to see them rendered?

Well, probably not from me. I just don't like to turn a model into a photograph, I like the 3D thing, being able to move around it, under it, in it. That's why I go to such pains to apply so many textures to my models, so they can look pretty good without being rendered. I do keep the model files under the size limit for the warehouse, so if I do upload them maybe somebody else can tackle them.

Again, thanks for the kind words.

I can go behind the drawing and select each and every line, that tells me that they are on the surface, right? If each line shows up completely on either side of the drawing, and I can select each of those lines from either side of the drawing, it has to be on the surface of the drawing, unless me feeble logic is flawed. And even if they weren't on the surface, when you've got three lines connected that makes a face, right?

If I have to add this to my list of SU Weird and Very Annoying Problems That You Just Have To Grit Your Teeth and Live With, I may have to just go back to playing computer solitare Would be much better for my ulcers and blood pressure.

@gaieus said:

Sometimes it happens to me as well. Sometimes selecting everything (lines and faces) and intersecting selected merges the lines into the face and they become proper edges. Sometimes starting to halve the improperly (not) formed face gets me down to create all the necessary faces and then I can delete the inner edges.

Hi Gaieus

I've tried all of that, I have halved and quartered and subdivided till my mouse gives out, I draw lines until the screen is black, sometimes it works on a piece or two of a face, maybe, but never enuf to be of any help to me.

I've got to figure this out, as slow as I model I can't be wasting so much time on this silly problem.

@driven said:

a suggestion,

crop the original image into 4, use Tig's image-trimer to get the outines then fredo's tools on surface to find all your shaping.

have fun

john

Thanks for the suggestion, but dividing it into individual views, which I of course do, is not going to change anything. This is a flat, planar surface, and as such the use of Image Trimmer or Tools On Surface or any other specialty tool cannot be necessary. The basic SU tools should be more than adequate for the job. I'm just drawing lines on a face, it just doesn't get more basic than that.

I don't want a work-around for the problem, I want to know why it is happening and how to fix it.

Again, thanks for your input.

I've put off posting this for a long time, because it seems like such a silly problem. But it's a problem that keeps coming back to bite me in the butt, so here it is.

All I'm trying to do is outline parts of a blueprint, to separate some sections. Should be pretty basic, a few minutes work, but sometimes it just doesn't work. At all. I'm careful to be sure all the lines are on the face and that they are all connected. But whether or not a section actually gets selectable is hit and miss at best. Sometimes when a section has been selected, after I delete and redraw a line exactly as it was it is no longer selectable. And sometimes, when I have an area selected, then draw a line to a corner of that section from outside that area (nothing is done within the area), it is no longer selectable. Basically, every weird thing that can happen, does happen.

I've tried everything I can think of. I delete and redraw lines endlessly. I erase all the lines and start from scratch. I delete the entire file and start from scratch. I make sure the blueprint is planar, I've added it to the side of a cube just to make sure. I've use the Stray Lines plugin, but it only found one line that wasn't connected properly. At one point I even uninstalled and reinstalled SU. No help.

This has happened off and on for months, I never know when it will strike.

I've begged, I've pleaded, I've cussed, I've screamed. My cat is hiding and probably will never come out. I've sprinkled holy water on my computer, and I've come close to throwing my monitor across the room.

I've come to within a mouseclick of posting a question about this several times over the past several months, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. But I've come to the end of my rope, and if it was a real rope I'd make a noose.

I have very little doubt that I am making some sort of noobie mistake, and that I will be deservedly embarrassed when someone tells me just how dumb I am, but at this point I just don't care. I'm wasting way too much time on this.

I've attached the file, and I also have little doubt that if someone downloads it, it will work perfectly for them.

Please somebody tell me what stupid thing I am doing.

AutoSave_1.skp

@swagen said:

Great work indeed ! Congrats!
would you mind showing me some scenes with the wireframe?

I appreciate the kind words. Here are some wireframe shots. I rarely use wireframe mode, makes me dizzy(er). Looks like an explosion in a spaghetti factory

@d12dozr said:

Those are exellent, Hellnbak...not an edge out of place

It would be neat to see all your cars in a virtual showroom when they are done

Thanks, but I don't think they'll ever be done. There are so many cars I want to do, a '60 Buick, a '53 and '55 Buick, a '60 Ford, a '60 Chrysler, a '57 Desoto, a '54 Ford, a '50 Mercury, a '59 Edsel, the list just goes on and on. I've been downloading and organizing literally thousands of reference photos, can never have too many of them. Gives me something to do.

Dang, just noticed that I didn't change the labels on the Ford radio knobs, they both say "lights". Also didn't roll back the odometer to zero. Well, it is a work in progress.

@unknownuser said:

Congrats on a beauty

What did you do in the end for the Fairlane logo?

Thanks. I've pretty much given up on Renditioner. I did get it to work as far as rendering my logos and emblems, but it is much too limited as far as support and features. The user manual is a joke, and there's not much out there as far as user forums or user info. Each time somebody asks about something, it's "Oh, we might include that in our next version". Thinking about either Shaderlight or Twilight, downloaded demos of both today, will install and try them out soon.