It's worse than you think. This pig of a bill is over 400 pages; it started out with 3, from Paulson, grew to 106 at the House. Now it's bloated with pork spending. This is sickening.

Good, so do I. It takes effort, doesn't it?

It's never been illegal to borrow money to buy stock--margin buying.

@rickw said:

Personally, I think there are plenty of good reasons for why the Founding Fathers shunned direct democracy in the US - and why we should continue to shun it: hysteria voting, ill-informed voting, directed/coerced voting, and more...

Without the Electoral College (democratic republic), States rights would be severely diminished and the last thing I want is for the power of the Federal government to be expanded.

@tomsdesk said:

I repeat: creed, fraud, and conspiracy! If you want to call the politicians stupid for not anticipating corruption...no argument from me. But this problem was caused by crooks!

Crooks who reside on Wall Street, Main Street AND K Street.

@tomsdesk said:

@bellwells said:

Like I said, the way one views the press is based on their political viewpoint. A liberal will view the press as conservative and vice versa. Human nature.

True in some part, but a few years ago I decided to enlighten myself: so intentionally not so now.

I'm not sure I understand. Do you not view the media through your own lens?

I think Rick Wilson has summed this mess up. I would add that both Clinton and President Bush both touted the "ownership" society, further compounding the subprime problem. And, as I mentioned in another thread, the repeal of the Glass-Stegall Act in 1999 contributed. There is plenty of blame to go around on BOTH sides of the aisle.

Nancy Pelosi makes me sick. She should be horse whipped! Same for Barney Frank. Do a search on You Tube for Frank and you'll find a Committee hearing in which he, Maxine Waters and others were ridiculing those who feared Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were heading for trouble.

President Bush has be embarrassingly absent. It's too late now, but he should have come out and calmed the nation and explained things. Instead we were all left to get our information from the internet and other media, and we know how objective they are. We needed a "Kennedy" moment from him, but he is incapable of such things.

This bailout will pass creating more of a bloated and gluttonous federal government than we already have. This is why I'm voting Libertarian. I get the feeling I'm not alone.

Like I said, the way one views the press is based on their political viewpoint. A liberal will view the press as conservative and vice versa. Human nature.

Stinkie, I went to school in Switzerland as a 13 year old and have been back 3-4 times since, the most recent about 20 years ago. I'm l..o..n..g overdue for a visit. I watch the Tour de France specifically for the scenery.

@tomsdesk said:

That said, I repeat: a liberal press is long dead...those not obviously right-wing are motivated by and operate under self-serving agendas. That's why the News Hour on PBS at times seems left of center...which it really isn't.

I guess we'll agree to disagree about the liberal press. The press has been so noticeably liberal for so long that any shift to the center is perceived as conservative. It really gets down to ones personal politics, doesn't it? We all like to hear our opinions validated and therefore gravitate to those news sources which offer this validation.

I watch various news shows to understand the subtle nature of bias. It's there if you pay objective attention. You can see it in the body language as well as in the words.

Thanks for the comment about wrong-minded/right-minded. I read your post in the other thread.

May the Schwartz be with you.

Yes, calm is good. I need a rest from standing my ground. Stinkie, thanks for umpiring this round.

@daniel said:

Bellwells, Todd Palin (Sara's husband) was registered with the Alaskan Independence Party from '99-'05. The AIP has advocated Alaska become a separate nation, or become part of Canada. So, do you mistrust him, too? And if so, how could you trust his wife, when it has already been shown he was involved in decision making while she was governor?

Daniel, I did just a little research before answering, so I may be missing some facts. My understanding is that, while one of AIP's goal was succession, this platform was dropped when the founder died a number of years ago. They realized how futile this goal was. I wouldn't mind withdrawing from the heavy hand of the federal government given the current partisan bullshit going on right now! Apparently, the AIP is closely related to the Constitution Party.

Having said that, Todd Palin is not the one running for office. Michelle Obama has certainly said some controversial things as well. Presidents/Governors talk to their wifes/husbands all the time about national/state policies and decision making. Nothing new here.

To answer your question directly--no, I do not mistrust Todd Palin. It doesn't matter because I'm not voting for McCain anyway.

Pete, I'm tired of the name calling. It's petty, juvenile and typical of the left when faced with dissenting opinions.

@tomsdesk said:

Ron...you're out of control, so I will no longer comment on your wrong-mindedness: but I gotta say you're factually dead wrong about the media...starting a decade ago.

Wrong-mindedness...this is the best one yet, Tom. So now you're the arbiter of what's right-minded? This is laughable!

@kwistenbiebel said:

@bellwells said:

It's OK to despise, really.

Statement of the day.
Primitive and almost something a hockey mom would say just before bed time to reassure her son :'shht now, it's ok to despise...'

pun intended.

Primitive, huh? Good one. Let's see how many other adjectives the enlightened crowd can come up with. Come on now, put your mushy heads together.

@mr s said:

I have a few Muslim acquaintances and most have expressed their distaste, in general, for the decadent West. Most also felt that 9/11 was something America had coming to them as payback. I have tried pointing out to them the contradiction of their choice to live and work in the West whilst holding these views. That’s another story!

This is the concept of taqiyya--a deceitful outward demeanor.

@juanv.soler said:

@bellwells said:

My WW2 Vet Father does not like the Japs, for example. And for good reason. My opinion of Islamists is also far from uninformed or uneducated. I think you're all wrapped in some sort of nuanced enlightened political correctness. It's OK to despise, really.

It is not OK to despise, bellwells.
It is wrong.
If you do, you become unable to keep learning.
And to learn is what is all about.

We have to learn, we must. We are all here. And no_one wants to be destroyed. How can you imagine any other thing ? or think you have the right and non the others ?
Cant you see the despise is an end_way leading to nowhere but war ?

It is absolutely NOT wrong to despise someone or something for cause. Would you despise the person who harmed your family?

(Edit: Very sorry about the multiple posts above)