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@numerobis said:
But you know that the clipping problem is caused by geometry being placed very far away from the origin, yes?
Even if it is only an autocad block that has been created at great distance to the autocad zero point.
That's not correct. Clipping issues are exacerbated by distance from origin but that's not the only clipping problem SketchUp has.
Draw a line 1/32" long at the origin and zoom into it. The clipping you'll experience is what's being discussed.
@unknownuser said:
aside from that, they're really open to user feedback..
it's just a completely different vibe, you know? .. they want to make something awesome and don't come across as "oh.. you don't know what's best for the user-- only we do" (or whatever)
[it's not so different than the interaction you'll see around here between the
&
To clarify: Jeff's comments above were made in reference to Rhino.
Agreed. Especially considering that McNeel has Pascal Golay on the newsgroup and forum working with users to find solutions to their problems right up to the extent of writing code on the spot. It would be as though SketchUp had someone, officially, on the forum every day, talking directly to users and writing Rubies right then and there to improve the program. Probably not going to happen.
@unknownuser said:
yeah, it's a sandwich.. similar to a BLT except it's lettuce_tomato_bacon instead.
That was quite funny ... it went by me the first time around.
@jgb said:
When you start seeing near field clipping, BACK off a lot, then TURN OFF Perspective. No need to monkey with FOV.
If you don't zoom out first, turning off perspective will zoom you out by a very large factor.
Now you can zoom back in as close as you want, and there is NO clipping no matter how close you zoom in. You can see a line segment or gap smaller than .001 inch fill the screen.
One tip though, if what you want to zoom in on is very small (natch, why else?) then select it or an adjoining entity (a face is best) so that when you are zoomed out you can find what you want easier.
After, zoom back out again before turning perspective back on.
===============
I know this is an aside from the real contest between those wanting to burn at the stake anyone who doubts this upgrade vs those of us who believe the upgrade signals The End of Civilization as We Know It but this is such a big deal for me! I should give you my $95 instead of Trimble. I go back and forth between AutoCAD LT and SketchUp all day and the clipping / zooming issue is a continual PITA. Wherever lines intersect arcs or circle coming from AC into SU is the source of the problem. Depending on where they fall on a chord they are either too short and need to be extended or they cross over the chord and need to be trimmed. Often these errant segments are very small and thus cause clipping problems.
Your solution works! Civilization is, temporarily, restored again.
Thanks, sincerely.
@unknownuser said:
i'm left with one single voice and that is via my bank account. i hate that i have to play that card but i feel as if i've been pushed into a corner with no other choice.
(well, no other choice with this application in particular)
Unfortunately, maybe because I've always trusted my relations with SketchUp, I downloaded and paid for the upgrade before I saw what it was. I draw for a living and $95 doesn't make or break my day but I do think the symbolic aspect of this is important. I might not have upgraded had I understood the whole picture.
Some of the fanboys on the other thread who think anyone who complains is a whining toddler seem not to understand that, as a professional, you have an obligation to voice complaints if you think your business relations have taken a turn against your interests. No improvements in annotations, zooming to details, curves, or anything else I can think of as basic to one's use of SketchUp would seem to justify questioning the legitimacy of calling this an 'upgrade'.
The significant improvements that one expects in an upgrade that fundamentally alter your workflow for the better are not apparent here and I worry that it takes the pressure off other developers to attempt to hit it out of the park with future releases. SketchUp isn't a toy, it's not a private party for the fanboys - it's the program of choice for thousands of individuals and companies around the world. If an upgrade with literally no improvement to workflow is acceptable here it will likely be the standard bearer for other software companies going forward.
The justifications for this are not convincing. Most of them have to do with issues of speed and stability. But when a company buys an asset they are also buying, and responsible for, it's liabilities. The obligation to make the program as crash proof as possible was transferred from Google to Trimble when Trimble purchased SketchUp. To charge for reducing the likelihood of crashes is like a roofer charging you to fix leaks after he's charged you for the cost of a new roof.
Fortunately, there are options now that we didn't have in the past. The SketchUp influence has become widespread over the last few years. The ease of modeling in Rhino V5 would be a good example. The monopoly that AutoCAD LT has in the 2D market is no longer matched by the monopoly in 3D speed modeling that SketchUp once held. I actually hope some of these other companies pick up a few more subscribers because of this fiasco. Competition is good.
@chrisc said:
Maybe this faq is clearer:
http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000020If I skip upgrading to 2013 and upgrade to 2014 instead, will I have to purchase a brand new, full price license?
No, worst case scenario would be upgrade cost of $95, plus nominal support reinstatement fee (TBD, but will be some percent less than $95). We will update this FAQ as soon as we know more about specific costs.
Yes, you should clarify your FAQ about this. Kridious's comments notwithstanding, the previous posts are confusing two issues - continual use of a license once purchased vs upgrade cycle. I can use my existing AutoCAD license forever but I have to upgrade periodically to meet client expectations. I expect a reasonable amount of time before I'm expected to pay for a full license if I have not previously upgraded - which I take to be about 3 to 5 years in the current software environment. The FAQ you linked to clarifies that I can use my existing license continually without interruption but does not address the issue of upgrade cycle.
@chrisc said:
What happens if I decide to skip a year in this program?
SketchUp Pro commercial licenses never expire, so skipping a year of the program doesn’t affect your use of SketchUp Pro at all. However, if you do decide to skip a year, you can expect a modest reinstatement fee should you choose to renew your upgrade, maintenance, and support program.
I think you're being disingenuous. Continual use of the existing license isn't the question here. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I read in your license agreement - if I don't pay for the upgrade now, when a new upgrade is offered, say in 2014, I will no longer be eligible for the upgrade price, I will have to pay full price. In other words, a one year upgrade cycle.
If this is incorrect you should get on these boards and clarify because that seems to be the common interpretation.
@edson said:
I hope this will not have a ton of abusive replies heaped up on me. if it does I shall ignore it gracefully.
experience has shown that people do not change opinions on the basis of other people's diatribes. thus in my opinion if you like using Sketchup you stay with it and try to contribute positively to its development. if you do not like it, is fed up with it, does not agree with the way its developing, etc, you are free to go and start using some other app.
Hopefully you won't take this as abusive but your comments are terribly inconsiderate. I can't just 'move on' from AutoCAD, I have a whole history of files and projects and tied into their system and my client requirements are that I work within that environment. If they act in ways that are not in my interest, it's in my interest to say so.
SketchUp 2013 is a game changer. I use that term because a programmer I know used it in conversation last night. I quote her (loosely) from memory: "We're all heads up about this right now. Development cycles are brutal for us - you have to have new features, you rarely have the budget but you have to develop your project if you don't want your customers to move over to another program. This is a game changer for us. We call it The Trimble New World Order - give your customers zilch and tighten the upgrade window down to one year. We're all waiting to see how this sorts itself out."
When I bought my first AutoCAD license you could upgrade forever. Now it's (I think) only back to 2008 or 2010. The upgrade used to be about 30% of full license cost. Now it's closer to 70%. I didn't buy the upgrade from modo 601 to 701 because most of the new features focused on character and animation which aren't important to me but that's okay because I can upgrade the next time around or the next time.
Imagine if modo said buy an upgrade to 701 or you get charged full price next time around. Where would that leave me? I'm an independent contractor but one of my clients has 20 seats of SketchUp and a whole company history centered around this program. They've just been slapped in the face and aren't sure what to do about it. They've just been told: either pay $1900 now (for what? curved leaders?) or get charged $11,800 in a year. And how does this play out going forward for Autodesk? Adobe? Trimble has single handedly lowered the bar of license / upgrade expectations.
Your comments, which I will paraphrase as: "Love it or leave it." might make sense to a hobbyist but out here, in the field, for a company with 20 seats of SketchUp (and the same number of AutoCAD LT, Adobe Cretive and several others) they're pretty wide of the mark.
@d12dozr said:
The big features in this release are Layout improvements and the Extension Warehouse. Do you negative nancys really not see what a BIG FREAKING DEAL the Extensions warehouse is?? And just because you don't personally use Layout doesn't mean countless other folks don't appreciate the update.
I think the negative comments are a good thing. Trimble needs to fully understand what their SketchUp customers want and expect going forward and this is the place for them to hear it.
I am, like most, completely underwhelmed to the extent that I worry about the future. A development team that is completely in the dark about my needs as a customer is not something that I can cheer about. The EW is something we already have here at Sketchucation and the reference to Layout borders on silliness. A simplified hatch tool that I can only use in LO but not in SketchUp and curved leaders? That's an upgrade? You still cannot dimension objects in 3D to any reasonable extent. Dimensions are only minimally associative. A hatch tool that you can only use if you draw in LO is no hatch tool at all - it's a gimmick. With this upgrade I'll use Layout exactly as I have in the past - as a way to format the size of SketchUp images for export to another program.
To put it in simple terms - this is an upgrade that will not upgrade my SketchUp or LO workflow in any way whatsoever. Thom thom's Vertex Tools changed the way I use SketchUp - and it only cost me $20. 2D Tools also changed my workflow fundamentally and it was free. Trimble gives me a way to access those tools and calls it an upgrade? Really ...
@jolran said:
Should I continue development further you think ?
I have not had time to download the plugin, maybe over the weekend. But, in general, yes you should continue development. In an area like this where none of the available solutions are real solutions, any new ideas would be welcome.
None of the workarounds would be applicable to me, much as they're appreciated. If you're looking to produce one finished set of drawings then exploding and rebuilding, etc. might work but I sit between the designers and the fabricators. My drawings can easily go through half a dozen major revisions in a day. That's why I'm always forced to go back to AutoCAD from SketchUp. Annotations and hatches in SketchUp are way too primitive to have a place in my workflow.
That's why I'm learning Rhino - Rhino has a modeling environment that's similar to SketchUp but with real annotations and hatches. The hatching and annotation aren't yet at the level of functionality that AutoCAD has achieved but it's much further along than SketchUp.
@arcad-uk said:
I've played with it and I think it should save me a fortune in coloured ink and help me better differentiate areas. Upgrade cost covered.
My version of AutoCAD LT (2010) doesn't have backgrounds for hatches. The workaround (which never really works) is to have a solid color hatch for the background and then a pattern hatch on top. But you have to fight with AC to keep the order correct. PITA!
Maybe this will warm me to the upgrade. Although I do wish this functionality existed on the SketchUp side of the fence rather than the Layout side.
edit: I'm not warmed. Am I correct in thinking that this only works for shapes drawn in Layout? You can't apply patterns to the SkechUp model? What the ....!?
@krisidious said:
So $1000.00 for Rhino and then $400.00 that plugin and what do I get? I saw nothing there that I can't do with SU/Layout for a $95 upgrade.
I think you're being unnecessarily defensive about SketchUp. I use SketchUp every day and love it (limitations and all) but it's a simple fact that there are some things that Rhino can do that SketchUp can't - real annotations would be one thing and complex curves would be another. There are whole classes of shapes that, theoretically, could be produced using Artisan with SketchUp but it would be laborious. In Rhino these types of shapes would be automatic.
Download a demo of Rhino and try it out. Coming from SketchUp, you'll find working in the Rhino environment very familiar and enjoyable. V5 introduced the Gumball which gives you modeling control very similar to SketchUp.
Trust me - as a designer you'll like it. And I don't think you'll experience it as a 'replacement' for SketchUp but more as a complementary tool.
A tell tale sign of how much of a disappointment this 'upgrade' is (I put it in parenthesis because it's really little more than a minor service release and shouldn't be called an upgrade) - only 2 threads with little discussion other than complaints. Not surprising considering there's really nothing to discuss - toolbars? meh!
Think about the modo upgrade to 601 - dozens and dozens of threads on the modo forum, tutorials popping up left and right to discuss the new features and explain how to use them, reviews in 3D magazines, users jumping ship from Maya and 3DMAX and LW to get on board. Now that's what's called an Upgrade.
@cuttingedge said:
I'd like to thank 3 persons for educating me in 3d... The 4th I still have to see what future we have together...
That is genuinely touching - well said.
Interesting to note that 'Derrick' seems a bit stockier than his predecessors - as am I. Is a comment being made here?
@krisidious said:
You're comparing Sketchup to things it was never supposed to be and whatsmore those things cannot build a set of construction documents for a structure. For pure modelers that are only interested in making games, movies or renders and especially organics then those programs are great, for designing, building in 3D and then documenting for construction they can't compete.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Rhino has a built in Layout feature that is not as robust as the same feature in AutoCAD but it surely is more advanced than SketchUp's Layout. And much as you 'can' create a set of construction documents in SketchUp / Layout I'd hardly say it's the most successful aspect of the program.
I''m not sure what the improvement in Zoom factor is - I'm not experiencing it.
I get clipping when I zoom to a line at about 1/64" long with SkechUp 8 / Layout 8. Same with SketchUp 2013 and Layout 2013. Right at the point that the line fills about half my screen I get clipped. I've never been convinced by the workaround of scaling the model so this is a big disappointment. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
@frv said:
To Jason,
But I am interested to see what we can tryout for a replacement for Sketchup. I mean really, equally handy, cheap, apps everybody can learn quickly, and that have a future to be well integrated in the world of architectural offices.
Francois
I recently purchased a license for V5 Rhino. The price is a bit higher - $825 from Novedge vs $590 for SketchUp - but not so much that it's a deal breaker.
I've enjoyed working in Rhino rather like I did when I first started using SketchUp - it's fluid, easy, intuitive and it has many, many advantages over SketchUp. Curves, real annotation rather than the wonky dimensions and text you find in SketchUp, a built in rendering engine (I haven't tried that yet so I can't comment on it), and the ability to generate clean, 2D vector documents.
I'm pleased and excited about it's possibilities.
Dimensions are wonky in LO and it's what keeps me from using it as anything other than a way to format the size of 3D images coming out of SketchUp. I gave up struggling with dimensions in LO, waiting for an upgrade that might bring it into the real world of CAD annotations (Rhino, AutoCAD LT, etc.) but I downloaded SketchUp 2013 last night and there's no improvement that I can see.
Very disappointed.
Interesting to note that I got my first sales pitch from Trimble (for a laser level) - 1/2 day after giving up my info to purchase an upgrade.
