@frederik said:

@solo said:

I am having a problem with Vertex tools

I bought the Vertex tool the other day, received my key and activated it...
Works like a charm...
(Perhaps Thomthom doesn't like you...)

I haven't tried to download if for 2014 yet. Love Vertex Tools.

His comment is disturbing. The basic functionality of some digital work has stabilized because our use of it has not evolved. There is little development in Word because what we need from a word processor hasn't changed significantly in 30 years. We spend more time texting, posting on Facebook or Twitter than we do writing letters. This is why you can get Word (or some variant of it) in any new PC you buy because if Microsoft tried to charge you at the original price point you'd bail out to any of a number of free alternates. The same is true of 2D drafting. Autodesk is moving it's AutoCAD LT customers to the Inventor LT suite to entice them away from free or low cost alternatives like Draftsight from SolidWorks. 2D drafting is 2D drafting - it hasn't fundamentally changed in a generation. By adding a basic parametric modeler to AutoCAD LT, Autodesk makes a viable argument to it's customers to not jump ship.

But 3D work has changed and SketchUp's customers (and our customers in turn) expect more. Rhino V5 is a very different beast than Rhino V3. My first license for modo 401 was for a very capable sub d modeler - now the same program is a sophisticated UV editor, animator and renderer. The idea that there's no good reason to change or evolve - is silly.

His comments concern me because I worry that Trimble might see SketchUp as primarily a tool to be integrated into it's line of 3D scanning equipment, offering those customers a free software to export their scan data to.

@slbaumgartner said:

I understand your need. However, I don't expect to see it implemented in SketchUp any time soon because it would require a fundamental redesign of how SketchUp works.

Today there is a 1-1 matchup between how Entities are represented in the model data and how they are drawn on the screen. That is, the internal data representation is all Edges and Faces, and (with some shading and texturing tricks) that is exactly what is drawn on the screen.

To get what you desire, they would have to break this 1-1 relationship so that the screen geometrical representation was dynamically calculated from an abstract mathematical geometry representation (e.g. center point and radius) every time the object was displayed. Obviously it's possible to do that, but it isn't how SketchUp was designed. So, a very major redesign and alteration of how SketchUp works would be needed.

The simplicity SketchUp gets from its approach is also a reason it is so much less expensive than true CAD programs.

Steve

Thanks for taking the time to explain that. A very interesting description and, for a non technical individual like myself, rather easy to grasp. Discouraging though. Obviously I'm happy that SU is so cheap by comparison to other programs and I don't want it to become a feature rich / bloated application. It's simplicity is it's strength. But, curves are such an essential function of so much of what I do that I'm forced out to other software because of the lack of true curves in SU.

At least now I'll know to stop asking for and expecting improvement in this area from each new upgrade and then feeling disappointed when it doesn't happen.

@frederik said:

@arail1 said:

Why is it important to have exact curves? - because it's the basis for enormous amounts of basic geometry.

Cheers, Arail11...
I understand much better now...

Although I use SU on a daily basis for the business I work within (mechanical/engineering) I haven't had the need to use exact curves...
For me SU is a 3D application, where I can visualize how things can be put together...
For me it's accurate enough, but I can see businesses where exact curves are needed...

Thanks for enlighten me...

I'm probably more aware of the issue than you are because I work 'in between' autocad and SU. Consequently I have to jump through several unnecessary hoops multiple times during the day - I make x marks at the centers of circles and arcs in AutoCad because SU wouldn't otherwise be able to find the center, I extend any lines that touch curves in AutoCAD because when I export to SU those lines will be either short of the curve or extend minimally beyond it depending on where on the chord they fall. And then I have to do a lot of cleanup on the SU side. All because of the lack of curves which would seem to me to be on the top of necessary improvements going forward but the Boulder team obviously disagrees.

Have a good day.

"jbacus via twitter

When was the last time a feature that made you catch your breath was added to Photoshop? Or Microsoft Word?"

This comment concerns me as far as future direction is concerned.

Most of the requests on this forum aren't really about new features - most of them are about adding features that should always have been there.

My request for true curves is a request for basic geometry that no other application I use functions without. Getting true curves would be like Word getting the ability to capitalize letters - not so much something new and additional, as something that shouldn't have been lacking in the original.

I don't want SketchUp to become too much more than it is but I do want it to function well within it's own parameters. Having to scale an object up 10 times to be able to zoom close in to it and then scale it back down is kind of ridiculous. But as more work is exporting out of SketchUp to sub d modelers, to nurbs programs or for 3D printing, those little errors are costly. That function wouldn't be a 'new' feature - it would be basic functionality that should already exist in the program.

@frederik said:

Thanks, Andy...

So... Why is it important to have exact curves...?

A curve in SketchUp is just a bunch of connected lines - what that means is: there's no center to snap to, no radial dimensions, no tangents, nor any of the other geometrical characteristics of a curve. With true curves any point on a circle or arc will always be exactly the same distance from a center point as any other. Alternately, wherever you snap to on a 'chord' will be a different dimension from a hypothetical center than any other point.

Why is it important to have exact curves? - because it's the basis for enormous amounts of basic geometry.

I'm curious - if this is SketchUp 2014, does that mean we won't see anything substantial until 2015? No actual curves, simple nurbs, ability to zoom in to close tolerances, whatever might be on your personal wishlist for SketchUp development? Not much change since Trimble took over. We keep hearing about 'under the hood' - must be some mighty engine down there by now.

Sorry - I deleted this because I posted it in the wrong thread. Need stronger coffee.

@mitcorb said:

@arail1:
The Plugin menu button does not appear on the Menu ribbon until you install a fresh plugin. This is something not yet documented in the Knowledge Center help.sketchup.com (so far as I know), nor has anyone explicitly enough included this in the threads I have read. Of course, you do know that the plugin destination folder is now under "...AppData...Roaming" and this path has been explained.

I might mention that, in order to see a couple of plugin toolbars after loading, I had to restart 2014. But this also happened a few times in 2013version. And they weren't simply lurking among my desktop icons. No big complaints.

Thanks for that.
Because so much of the chatter on the forums is about plugins and installing plugins, it might be wise for someone knowledgeable to post a sticky that summarizes all the useful info that's scattered throughout these threads - where to install them, the info you provided about the Plugin button, etc.

Okay, I'm confused.
Traditionally I go to Plugins at the top of my screen (right between Windows and Help) to access various things - OBJ Importer, for instance. It's not there in 2014.

And ... when I download a plugin, I unzip and drag it into Plugins in the SketchUp folder. That's not there anymore, either - only something called ShippedExtensions.

So, let's say I want to download Layer Manager for 2014. What do I do?

Thanks in advance for any advice you have and pardon my ignorance (it's wide, it's immemorial)

I'm not clear about signing in to the Warehouse. What do I sign in with? Sorry for the obvious question. No coffee yet this morning.

This is real? Gmail put this in my Spam folder.

For anyone who's considered formZ - there's a big sale right now, $300 off the regular price of $995.

http://www.formz.com/index.html

Thanks for the replies. It's intriguing - a built in ability to explode the view of your model into a 2D graphic than manipulate it in an image editor without having to go through a whole export / import / insert process. For most CAD applications like AutoCAD, layout is really just a window on to the model space with some limited controls, primarily scale. This feature of LO suggests something entirely else.

I'm curious about this feature in Layout. I couldn't find much in the help files. Maybe someone who is familiar with it could comment.

As far as I can tell the feature is only available after you've exploded the view (makes sense) and then only the raster layer of the view is available to manipulate in an image editor. If I set my model to raster, then explode it, I can manipulate the image in photoshop or illustrator. If I set my model to hybrid I can get the option only by separating the layers and then only for the raster layer. That confuses me a bit, it would seem Illustrator would be the ideal tool to manipulate the vector layer but when I separate the two layers I only get that option on the raster layer.

I find this an intriguing function of LO so I'm wondering if anyone else uses it and what their experience is.

Thanks in advance.

In both SketchUp and AutoCAD I have a collection of lines, dashed lines, colors, text, hatches, etc. that I use regularly, in a rectangle set off to the side away from my drawing area. That way I can purge without concern that I'm purging material I want to use later.

Kind of pricey for a plug in though - $395 after the introductory period. That means modo is becoming sort of pricey also - $1495 for a license, $395 for this 'must have' plugin = almost $2000. I think when I bought my first license it was $695.

I thought they were fabulous. Unlike any of the kitschy nonsense I associate with these kinds of events. Especially the Russian Constructivist episode. And I wonder how many people were needed to pull it off, how many teams, how many organizers and so on.

@dave r said:

Chris, for most of my clients I charge an hourly fee. Changes just make the number of hours go up. The clients know it up front and it tends to keep the number of changes down although I currently have one who doesn't seem to care. They've changed horses several times and keep paying me when I bill them. Figure out what you need to charge by the hour and keep track as you go along.

+1 - whatever your hourly rate is.

Clients who know they're going to be charged an hourly fee for changes, revisions, etc tend to make fewer and more reasonable requests. This is especially true, in my opinion, of architects. Architects who aren't paying for revisions tend to use you as an unofficial assistant designer - asking you to do work that should be done on their end, in their office - trying out ideas, seeing how changes affect the design, that sort of thing.

Also, in my projects there are often situations that arise that have nothing to do with me that require me to re-draw. Some aspect or other of the larger overall design changes and the change requires a revision on my end.

Good luck - be strong.

@mitcorb said:

Anything hand held is going to have reliability issues, especially with increasing range.

Agreed. But measuring a complex interior with tape measures, plumb bobs and levels also has reliability issues. Like buying new software - the new rarely replaces the old, more often it takes it's place alongside the old.

We'll see in the Spring when the first production run happens.