Can I have a Gripes & Bitchin' for Su 2014 thread?
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@pbacot said:
Tomot-- At least I avoided the ACAD thing all these years. But the comparison will not bear out (I hope). For example SU2013 Pro users didn't even have to pay for 2014. And the update to get on bandwagon is $95 compared to what for ACAD? But it's not so bad to stay with what works. I'm on v.8 but gravitating towards 2014.
I recently bought Acad LT; the subscription fee is three times what I pay for SU but at least I can see a return on investment with industry standard DWG collaboration, hatching that works, accurate circles and numerous 2D function that make LO look like a "blunt stick".
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@arcad-uk said:
@pbacot said:
Tomot-- At least I avoided the ACAD thing all these years. But the comparison will not bear out (I hope). For example SU2013 Pro users didn't even have to pay for 2014. And the update to get on bandwagon is $95 compared to what for ACAD? But it's not so bad to stay with what works. I'm on v.8 but gravitating towards 2014.
I recently bought Acad LT; the subscription fee is three times what I pay for SU but at least I can see a return on investment with industry standard DWG collaboration, hatching that works, accurate circles and numerous 2D function that make LO look like a "blunt stick".
Yes, that's about the same with my CAD (PowerCADD)--except not being AutoCAD its dwg is always a translation. One thing it has never done well is references. So on a recent project I imported images to Layout--showing different layer setups side by side, combining with a model from SU. I like doing elevations ins SU /LO but the lack of robust notation means I sometimes send that into PowerCADD to finish. Whatever works.
And some others have thrown-over CAD completely for SU-LO. So...
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@arcad-uk said:
I recently bought Acad LT; the subscription fee is three times what I pay for SU but at least I can see a return on investment with industry standard DWG collaboration, hatching that works, accurate circles and numerous 2D function that make LO look like a "blunt stick".
Not to mention LO dimensioning is still woeful compared to ACAD LT, but then again, I seem to be the only one who gripes about LO dimensioning capabilities, so it's no surprise that I still cannot produce the documents I need to produce with just a SU/LO workflow.
BTW, blunt stick seems to be a generous analogy.
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@sfto1 said:
@arcad-uk said:
I recently bought Acad LT; the subscription fee is three times what I pay for SU but at least I can see a return on investment with industry standard DWG collaboration, hatching that works, accurate circles and numerous 2D function that make LO look like a "blunt stick".
Not to mention LO dimensioning is still woeful compared to ACAD LT, but then again, I seem to be the only one who gripes about LO dimensioning capabilities, so it's no surprise that I still cannot produce the documents I need to produce with just a SU/LO workflow.
BTW, blunt stick seems to be a generous analogy.
I upgraded my AutoCAD LT license to the Inventor LT Suite which bundles AutoCAD LT and Inventor LT. The upgrade price to the Inventor LT Suite was a few dollars less than the price to upgrade just to AutoCAD LT. Not sure why. So now I have a bare bones parametric modeler in my tool kit.
I model in SU and use LO to create perspective views of my work - something that AutoCAD LT of course can't do. But for any work that's 2D the dimensioning and annotation capabilities of AutoCAD LT are so far in advance of LO that there's no reason to use it.
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@arail1 said:
I upgraded my AutoCAD LT license to the Inventor LT Suite which bundles AutoCAD LT and Inventor LT. The upgrade price to the Inventor LT Suite was a few dollars less than the price to upgrade just to AutoCAD LT. Not sure why. So now I have a bare bones parametric modeler in my tool kit.
I model in SU and use LO to create perspective views of my work - something that AutoCAD LT of course can't do. But for any work that's 2D the dimensioning and annotation capabilities of AutoCAD LT are so far in advance of LO that there's no reason to use it.
Where did you purchase upgrade? I can not find this option.
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@rv1974 said:
so miserable...
@unknownuser said:
jbacus @jbacus from Twitter
When was the last time a feature that made you catch your breath was added to Photoshop? Or Microsoft Word?http://www.ronenbekerman.com/sketchup-2014-released/#respond
Yes, i had to read this twice because i couldn't believe it...
http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15%26amp;t=56466%26amp;p=513381#p513381The PS development of the last years is still miles ahead of SU's newly added killer features like warehouse zooming and revolutionary Arc tools:
better selection tools, content aware tools, Smartobjects/Smartfilters, Advance Healing Brush, improved deblur/sharpen, more tools supporting 32bit/16bit, GPU-support, new HDRI tools, Puppet Warp, Mixer Brush, better masks, 3D-tools, better RAW support, better multicore support, background saving, Adaptive Wide Angle, ...And M$ Word... i don't know what to say. He really compares a "simple" word processing program that does everything needed since maybe 15 years to a 3D app which is way behind the competition in many aspects and really could be massively improved?!? And btw. i'm still using Office 2003... no need to upgrade! (But even then i think they added many features for people who need them and made their life easier in the newer versions...)
I think, there are maybe three or four things that i like so much about SU that make me still use sketchup instead of switching completely to 3dsmax:
- the inference engine (!)
- the navigation / camera movement (orbiting/zooming)
- the direct object selection and manipulation (group/component)
- and maybe the display style (but i only need white faces with transparent grey and shadows)
And all these features are there since v2.1, when i started using SU back in 2002.
If Autodesk or someone else would include these features (or at least the snapping and navigation) in Max i would drop SU immediately!
@arcad-uk said:
@pbacot said:
Tomot-- At least I avoided the ACAD thing all these years. But the comparison will not bear out (I hope). For example SU2013 Pro users didn't even have to pay for 2014. And the update to get on bandwagon is $95 compared to what for ACAD? But it's not so bad to stay with what works. I'm on v.8 but gravitating towards 2014.
I recently bought Acad LT; the subscription fee is three times what I pay for SU but at least I can see a return on investment with industry standard DWG collaboration, hatching that works, accurate circles and numerous 2D function that make LO look like a "blunt stick".
I'm using ACAD (LT) for almost 20 years now and i can say that SU Layout is so far away from being a real CAD program it's really laughable to consider it to be able to replace ACAD or another standard CAD app now or in the near future...
Maybe for simple layouts with SU perspectives but not for serious plan design.I think another wishlist thread for 2015, 2016,etc. is unnecessary. We can just use the thread for 2014 ...or 2013/v9.
http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10%26amp;t=52470
The only wish i can see that has been fulfilled is Ruby 2.0 - so let's see what this "new feature" will give us in the future. But really a cheap solution for Trimble... even more non payed development by plugin authors.
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I thought I'd just repost a very well written post by someone called "sket83" at Ronen Bekermans blog:
@unknownuser said:
sket83
So, i read all these comments and the thing that stands out the most is that @jbacus is trying very hard to justify why is SketchUp the way it is. I got an impression that he's even aggravated at other commenters for not liking the way things are.
On one hand i get this. He and his team have had a dream for years of making a simple 3D modeling tool. To replace paper and pencil with a digital tool that can produce great sketches and was very easy to learn. They have done just that, and he doesn't want it to become something it was never ment to be. I cannot blame a man for sticking to his dream.
On the other hand, that dream vas consived over a decade ago. I'm sure Zuckerberg didn't imagine "taking over the world" with his social network, or that Larry and Sergey knew that Google would be so much more then a web search engine. But they evolved, just like Sketchup should. They have even done it without compromising their original idea. So - can - Sketchup!
Parametric design is something we are definitelly interested in. But even much simpler things are missing from SU. For instance:
- Why can't we dock the Materials, Components and other widows to the side of the screen in a scrollable panel?
- Why is there no longer option to save (and load) toolbar positions?
- Why can't we make groups for Layers?
- Why can't we make groups for Materials? ... (a feature i'd like to see in Vray too, btw)
- Why is there no better UV mapping (for organic shapes)?
- Why is there still viewport clipping in large models?
- Why is Sketchup still not optimized for detailed models?
- Why is it still stuck at 32bit?
- Why must we reinstall all plugins every time a new version is released?
...
(I can go on, but you get the picture)
...- And whoever chose Make for the name of the free version should go stand in the corner for 5 minutes. Now.
The thing is, we were expecting all these features to be resolved back in V8. And yet we are in 2014 and not much has changed. We all use Sketchup because we love it and because we see great potential in it. But it seams like the SU Team is either not able or not willing to inovate as much as we would like them to, and we get more and more disappointed with every new release.
@jbacus, i am not 'as pro' as some of the other ArchViz guys here, so if my input doesn't matter, then be it, but do take the time to talk to @ronenbekerman, @dBrenders etc (have a hangout or something) and see if you guys can come up with some stuff that will benefit all of us who are into archviz, product design and so on.
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@pixero said:
"And whoever chose Make for the name of the free version should go stand in the corner for 5 minutes. Now."
I think it's the perfect name for its role in the upcoming next industrial revolution with 3D printing...
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"The thing is, we were expecting all these features to be resolved back in V8. And yet we are in 2014 and not much has changed. We all use Sketchup because we love it and because we see great potential in it. But it seams like the SU Team is either not able or not willing to innovate as much as we would like them to, and we get more and more disappointed with every new release."
So then, why not consider forming a "study group" from users and programmers in these forums to evaluate the creation of a completely new application? If, for whatever reason, SU is not evolving as people would like, build something new that will.
Forums like this can provide the perfect "stone soup" talents to make it happen. All it takes is a vision, realistic goals, some organization and some commitment. The rest is just code and a licensing model. Instead of being a forum for an application that appears to be headed for a developmental "dead end", consider investing in a different future and "roll your own".
Just tossin' it out there ...
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In English it doesn't sound right. I had to introduce someone to SU yesterday and told them about the "Make" version. I cringe and assume the person will not understand what i am saying. It's a name. You have to tell them "It's called 'Make', it's the free version." Actually it's now more like the trial version because you have the pop screen every time. Could have called it "Make my Day" just as well.
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There was a software for woodworking called Woody (not the woodpecker). It still is, but it's ARCHAIC. I would say almost dying... http://www.almod-corp.com/woody_en.htm
I am afraid SU will go in the same direction if it won't evolve. Maybe some voices that are heard by Trimble should speak louder... It's NOT OK to only fix bugs and improve small things.
Once the computing power increases, the designers want to be able to do more, the clients have bigger expectations ... everything is interdependent. One cannot expect to survive many years on the market with the same unchanged product. And SketchUp was a GREAT idea, but it will die soon if Trimble won't take serious actions. Soon meaning maybe 5-10 years. All it takes is a smart guy to develop a similar software that will take the ease to use of sketchup and adapt it to nowadays needs. And there will be one... it always had been (this is how good things happened). -
@derei said:
All it takes is a smart guy to develop a similar software that will take the ease to use of sketchup and adapt it to nowadays needs. And there will be one... it always had been (this is how good things happened).
I'm looking at my options...
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I really hope Ruby 2.0 added in release 2014 will enable programmers to make more powerful plugins that can fill in the gaps. I also hope the SketchUp development team has finished making the 'under the hood' improvements so they can work on adding the necessary 'above the hood' and even better performance improvements and adding new great functionality for the next release.
ps the effort spend for the new arc tool is a waste... didn't Didier Bur make a ruby for that already...in 2007?!
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Forums like this can provide the perfect "stone soup" talents to make it happen. All it takes is a vision, realistic goals, some organization and some commitment. The rest is just code and a licensing model. Instead of being a forum for an application that appears to be headed for a developmental "dead end", consider investing in a different future and "roll your own".
Just tossin' it out there ...
I like it...
...joe
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@kaas said:
ps the effort spend for the new arc tool is a waste... didn't Didier Bur make a ruby for that already...in 2007?!
didier's didn't have the snapping capabilities that the new native version has.
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@joewood said:
Forums like this can provide the perfect "stone soup" talents to make it happen. All it takes is a vision, realistic goals, some organization and some commitment. The rest is just code and a licensing model. Instead of being a forum for an application that appears to be headed for a developmental "dead end", consider investing in a different future and "roll your own".
Just tossin' it out there ...
I like it...
...joe
then we can have a gripes & bitching thread for that software
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@arcad-uk said:
@derei said:
All it takes is a smart guy to develop a similar software that will take the ease to use of sketchup and adapt it to nowadays needs. And there will be one... it always had been (this is how good things happened).
I'm looking at my options...
I came close to buying a license for formZ last month when they had their big anniversary sale. The price at that time was not much more than bonzai. I played with a demo and found it to be a very cool program. I especially like the way the work plane was 'attached' to the end of your cursor. It's a full program with a layout function, nurbs, etc.
Unfortunately, because of work pressure I have to add a parametric program to my arsenal soon ($$ ouch!) so I couldn't justify the license but I wish I'd been able to. A good program to have in your tool kit.
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@arail1 said:
@arcad-uk said:
@derei said:
All it takes is a smart guy to develop a similar software that will take the ease to use of sketchup and adapt it to nowadays needs. And there will be one... it always had been (this is how good things happened).
I'm looking at my options...
I came close to buying a license for formZ last month when they had their big anniversary sale. The price at that time was not much more than bonzai. I played with a demo and found it to be a very cool program. I especially like the way the work plane was 'attached' to the end of your cursor. It's a full program with a layout function, nurbs, etc.
Unfortunately, because of work pressure I have to add a parametric program to my arsenal soon ($$ ouch!) so I couldn't justify the license but I wish I'd been able to. A good program to have in your tool kit.
My use of SU dates back to V3 and I have paid for aeach upgrade as soon as it was released. I bought FormZ about 3 months ago more as an insurance as I had a gut feeling that SU2013 was going nowhere. So far I like FormZ. However, while similar to SU it has its own quirks. At the moment I am using SU2014 and FormZ. However, the way things are shaping up I will transition to FormZ over the next 12-18 months.
Just keeping my options open.
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seasdes
Could you elaborate on your transition from SketchUP to FormZ. I am considering moving to FormZ but I worry about its complexity.
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@chicos said:
seasdes
Could you elaborate on your transition from SketchUP to FormZ. I am considering moving to FormZ but I worry about its complexity.
If you look on the FomZ forum you will see pleny of posts from SU users transitioning to FormZ. I could not answer your question properly by placing a few points here.
I have nothing to do with FormZ other that purchasing their software. FormZ may not suit everyone. But who cares
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