SketchUp 2013 Gripes & Bitchin' ONLY ;)
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A quote (from the 'official' forum):
"There appear to be at least two main factors that will prevent you from achieving proficiency with SU unless you start making some changes in your attitude and approach to learning:
Your failure to read the documentation--which would tell you the correct procedure to follow when using the Measurements toolbar Your sullen unwillingness or inability to communicate your exact situation--which would allow you to receive effective help from others."Can you imagine a mod ever speaking to a new user like that at Skechucation?
The AutoCAD boards used to be like this - a couple of 'bull's roamed the forums 7 days a week shouting down anyone suspected of not thoroughly reading the manual (770 or so pages long) before posting a question. It was an awful place and the very last resort if you needed to know something about AutoCAD. Fortunately now, with the Internet, you can avoid that forum altogether just by typing in a query in Google.
Makes you understand (and value) the concept of 'community' - which means people helping one another.
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@arail1 said:
Can you imagine a mod ever speaking to a new user like that at Skechucation?
Yes. Making an effort to describe what the problem is instead of shouting "It's not working" is vital in getting any assistance. I get that all the time - "It's not working!!!" - often with more grief towards me or the tool itself. And the only thing I can reply with is asking them to provide more info. And there are repeaters who consistently fail to give any useful information to what their problem is - in which case such a response is a valid one IMO. I found that quote to be constructive feedback.
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@thomthom said:
@arail1 said:
Can you imagine a mod ever speaking to a new user like that at Skechucation?
Yes. Making an effort to describe what the problem is instead of shouting "It's not working" is vital in getting any assistance. I get that all the time - "It's not working!!!" - often with more grief towards me or the tool itself. And the only thing I can reply with is asking them to provide more info. And there are repeaters who consistently fail to give any useful information to what their problem is - in which case such a response is a valid one IMO. I found that quote to be constructive feedback.
All due respect - much as I value your Vertex Tools I hope your beliefs as a moderator don't become standard here.
The OP described clearly what he was doing (clicking in the box). The appropriate answer therefore would be: 'Don't click in the box - that may be the obvious thing to do but it's not - initiate the tool function - then type a dimension without leaving the SkechUp field.
No need for comments about 'sullenness' or the OP's 'approach to learning' or any comments about the individual's personality or world view or anything else unrelated to the question at hand (worth pointing out - the OP leveled no such comments at the moderator).
Years ago when I needed the AutoCAD forums I always typed a comment at the top of the post asking two people to please not answer - they were the bulls that I mentioned earlier and like many who take this line, they assumed that all questions were directed at them and therefore they had a right to set 'standards'. I avoided both of them and their macho nonsense and always got good answers, more often than not form other newbies like myself (back then) and without all the attitude.
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@arail1 said:
The OP described clearly what he was doing (clicking in the box). The appropriate answer therefore would be: 'Don't click in the box - that may be the obvious thing to do but it's not - initiate the tool function - then type a dimension without leaving the SkechUp field.
You didn't describe what the OP said. Just quoted a generic response as an example.
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@thomthom said:
@arail1 said:
The OP described clearly what he was doing (clicking in the box). The appropriate answer therefore would be: 'Don't click in the box - that may be the obvious thing to do but it's not - initiate the tool function - then type a dimension without leaving the SkechUp field.
You didn't describe what the OP said. Just quoted a generic response as an example.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'a generic response' - it was a very specific and insulting response and, regardless of the OP's question, inappropriate. If you mean 'generic response' as in 'generic to that moderator' then yes, that is characteristic of his replies. Which largely determines the overall 'feel' of that forum.
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I meant: You posted a quoted response without posting the source of what it responded to. So I commented on the response in a general context - where it would be a valid one as there are many who utterly fail, often repeatedly, to provide any information one can use to respond to.
Now, if the OP had sufficiently described the question then off course the quoted response would not be fit. But taken out of context it was impossible to comment on that specific instance.
That's why I interpreted the complain about the response in a general context.
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Let me shed some light here...
There are no "moderators" over the SU Goups ("Forums") but a certain group of (what it is used to be called during Google times) "Top Contributors" Emphasized; "Contributors". No power in hands (like the mods have here) or anything - they are "just" contributors who happen to be "top". (like myself as a matter of fact).
On a side note, they are also called as "SketchUp Sages". A title so far only given by the SU Team to certain members of the SU Community.
Some of them are also active here (and are "Top SketchUcators") while others have chosen to be silent. But they are here and are respected members of the community. Some are a bit hard to handle. But hey; I am not an easy-going person myself either!
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@gaieus said:
Let me shed some light here...
There are no "moderators" over the SU Goups ("Forums") but a certain group of (what it is used to be called during Google times) "Top Contributors" Emphasized; "Contributors". No power in hands (like the mods have here) or anything - they are "just" contributors who happen to be "top". (like myself as a matter of fact).
On a side note, they are also called as "SketchUp Sages". A title so far only given by the SU Team to certain members of the SU Community.
Some of them are also active here (and are "Top SketchUcators") while others have chosen to be silent. But they are here and are respected members of the community. Some are a bit hard to handle. But hey; I am not an easy-going person myself either!
Yes, you are Csaba and very patient!
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@gaieus said:
Let me shed some light here...
There are no "moderators" over the SU Goups ("Forums") but a certain group of (what it is used to be called during Google times) "Top Contributors" Emphasized; "Contributors". No power in hands (like the mods have here) or anything - they are "just" contributors who happen to be "top". (like myself as a matter of fact).
On a side note, they are also called as "SketchUp Sages". A title so far only given by the SU Team to certain members of the SU Community.
Some of them are also active here (and are "Top SketchUcators") while others have chosen to be silent. But they are here and are respected members of the community. Some are a bit hard to handle. But hey; I am not an easy-going person myself either!
WTF?!
I thought this was all about software. But you guys are ... what? Some kind of cult? Some of you are Masters and some of you have taken a Vow of Silence? And a few have transcended to become Sages? Do the Sages wear different robes than those who have Vowed Silence? Is there, like a holy book or something? Can I join? Do I have to surrender my bank account? Is this the group that Katie Holmes is running away from?Signed: Confused
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Don't you find criticizing a decision to remain silent a little hypocritical...when your own profile contains absolutely zilch?
For myself, I tried Google Groups very briefly after @Last closed down and before this place kicked off to any great degree. I found it as appealing as a Tax Return, and told them so...before I left.
On a broader note, now that SU is no longer part of the Google Empire, there doesn't seem to be any particular reason why it's official forum has to remain hampered by the visual desert of the Groups. Somebody ought to be pressing Trimble to give them web space for something like they had before...but better.
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The "Sages" or "Top Contributors" (a system Google uses all over its product forums) is not merely a bunch of knowledgeablemembers but also who are activeand helpful- like Top SketchUcators here. There's one particular member there who is not only a TC for SketchUp but also for Google Earth (yes, I know it's something many folks do not care about here). There are lots of knowledgeable folks around here as well but since they are not too active, we cannot promote them to be TS's.
The term "sage" came from the developer team and means no more than a "localised" term for what later became (officially) "Top Contributors". I do not think the whole matter should be overemphasized however.
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Although they said that most of the previous @Last forum content would be merged into the new Google Groups, but I don't think much got transferred...
There were so much great info in that forum, which they just dropped on the floor back then...I appreciate that we have SCF today...!
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The problem is that since the @Last forums were migrated to the GGroups software, Google changed the product forum software twice at least and then the content could not be moved.
I remember however that when we changed the forum software in 2007, we moved all the content manually (as the two were not compatible). I know it sounds crazy but we did not want to lose anything.
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I just feel I must say that Sketchucation is THE best community I've ever visited/been part of.
So helpful and full of information and other great stuff.
Without you I don't know if I would want to use SU anymore.(Sorry, no bitching in this post.)
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@gaieus said:
Let me shed some light here...
There are no "moderators" over the SU Goups ("Forums") but a certain group of (what it is used to be called during Google times) "Top Contributors" Emphasized; "Contributors". No power in hands (like the mods have here) or anything - they are "just" contributors who happen to be "top". (like myself as a matter of fact).
On a side note, they are also called as "SketchUp Sages". A title so far only given by the SU Team to certain members of the SU Community.
Some of them are also active here (and are "Top SketchUcators") while others have chosen to be silent. But they are here and are respected members of the community. Some are a bit hard to handle. But hey; I am not an easy-going person myself either!
Yes, you are Csaba and very patient!
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I'd get that Déjà vu seen to Mike.
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@arail1 said:
WTF?!
I thought this was all about software. But you guys are ... what? Some kind of cult? Some of you are Masters and some of you have taken a Vow of Silence? And a few have transcended to become Sages? Do the Sages wear different robes than those who have Vowed Silence? Is there, like a holy book or something? Can I join? Do I have to surrender my bank account? Is this the group that Katie Holmes is running away from?Signed: Confused
lol.. when you put it that way, it does start sounding very odd
(fwiw, I'm not a sage or silent member or anything like that though I do have a few hundred posts at the google groups forum)
I suppose the arsehole post was from gully?
when I first read his posts, I had a similar feeling as you.. but after a while, I noticed people would call him out on it but he'd take it in stride.. ends up, he does give out a lot of proper advice and help etc.
dunno, I like reading his stuff now.. usually as blunt as can be which translates, to me at least, funny as !&@% -
@alan fraser said:
Don't you find criticizing a decision to remain silent a little hypocritical...when your own profile contains absolutely zilch?
Gee - maybe take a chill pill? My post was meant as humor and I wasn't criticizing anyone for being 'silent' - I was making a joke. I don't keep track of who posts and who doesn't ... none of my business. As far as my profile - it never occurred to me fill it in. I don't think I've ever looked at anyone else's profile so I give no thought to my own.
Let's see ... what would it say? ... 'Professional draftsman (over worked and under paid, beaten down like a dog by the IRS). Loves SketchUp (but flirting with Rhino and thinking about having a full blown extra marital affair leading, maybe to divorce), hates AutoCAD but uses it 4 or 5 hrs a day.
Probably the same profile that most people here would have .... no?
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@arail1 said:
Gee - maybe take a chill pill?.........
Gee - maybe physician heal thyself? I'm not the one bitching on multiple levels; if I was any more chilled I'd give myself frostbite. Still...if it eases your angst...
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