A new home for SketchUp
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I think it's merely a question of semantics. All architects are designers...but not all designers are architects.
On a more general note, I don't feel any reason to feel bad about this. It seems pretty clear that SU will be integrated more fully into the AEC pipeline...after years of users here complaining that too much attention was being paid to Google Earth compatibility at the expense of AEC and more general modelling advancements.
The spin-offs from that ought to be of great benefit to designers not in the main pipeline...be they cabinetmakers or interior designers...and to all the little guys in general. And the users of the free version (currently GSU) are already well catered for and have assurances that they will continue to be both valued and supported. If the Trimblers were the hard-headed suits that they're being painted as by some, they would never have agreed to co-host the Warehouse...given that they would have got it from John Bacus and other Boulderados that read these pages, that most Pro users seem to hold the Warehouse in fairly universal disdain.
Trimble seem to be actually taking an interest in the engine itself, which seems to be more than Google ever did. Their interest seems to have extended no further than what use SU could be in populating Google Earth and of making it a household name in order to generate a large enough userbase to accomplish that aim. So maybe we can look forward to a little more coding in C++ rather than relying on the great (but often necessarily slow) Ruby functions...as well as advanced features not currently available. After all, if you're going for a seamless, integrated pipeline, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have pinch-points in that pipeline because one particular stage can't handle or generate the kind of 3D data that other stages depend upon.
I seem to remember John telling me that Google expected SU to effectively pay its own way from the sale of Pro licenses. There were obvious advantages to Google membership...free goodies, a direct plugin to world-class free marketing and exposure; and a handy venue at Mountain View, but the massive injection of R&D cash that many of us expected after the takeover never materialised.
If Trimble are actually interested in the guts of the program itself; and are hoping to extend its capabilities both in the core program and into a wider range of applications, that strikes me as being a good thing.
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@alan fraser said:
Trimble seem to be actually taking an interest in the engine itself, which seems to be more than Google ever did. T....So maybe we can look forward to a little more coding in C++ rather than relying on the great (but often necessarily slow) Ruby functions...as well as advanced features not currently available.
I often think about this.
As much as we want the improvement of the core program of Sketchup, an issue might arise that current ruby coded applets for SU might become incompatible.The power of Sketchup being it's modularity (plugins) might be it's downfall.
Will Trimble have the courage to dig a little deeper than to scratch the ruby code surface, to the risk engravating 3d party developers? (ChaosGroup, Next Limit, etc....)
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@unknownuser said:
but not all designers are architects.
Speaking of semantics... I am a Designer who is not an Architect, although that's only because AIA lobbied for laws that make it illegal to call yourself one if you're not registered or licensed by any one state... Even though Merriam Webster dictionary thinks I am.
Definition of ARCHITECT
The meaning of ARCHITECT is a person who designs buildings and advises in their construction. How to use architect in a sentence.
(www.merriam-webster.com)
@unknownuser said:
Definition of ARCHITECT
1
: a person who designs buildings and advises in their construction
2
: a person who designs and guides a plan or undertaking <the architect of American foreign policy>p.s. per my attorney... I at no time referred to myself as or alluded that I am an Architect.
I might add that I do not begrudge AIA or Architects for protecting their hard work and names from being misused or diluted. I know how much sacrifice and hard work it takes to become a registered Architect.
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@kwistenbiebel said:
Will Trimble have the courage to dig a little deeper than to scratch the ruby code surface, to the risk engravating 3d party developers? (ChaosGroup, Next Limit, etc....)
Despite any possible aggravations, I could only see a reworking of the core structure as a good thing... as long as Trimble is keen on keeping everyone in the API loop. The minute it becomes a rework causing some proprietary incompatibility of the current ruby plugins,
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@krisidious said:
@unknownuser said:
but not all designers are architects.
Speaking of semantics... I am a Designer who is not an Architect, although that's only because AIA lobbied for laws that make it illegal to call yourself one if you're not registered or licensed by any one state... Even though Merriam Webster dictionary thinks I am.
Definition of ARCHITECT
The meaning of ARCHITECT is a person who designs buildings and advises in their construction. How to use architect in a sentence.
(www.merriam-webster.com)
@unknownuser said:
Definition of ARCHITECT
1
: a person who designs buildings and advises in their construction
2
: a person who designs and guides a plan or undertaking <the architect of American foreign policy>p.s. per my attorney... I at no time referred to myself as or alluded that I am an Architect.
I might add that I do not begrudge AIA or Architects for protecting their hard work and names from being misused or diluted. I know how much sacrifice and hard work it takes to become a registered Architect.
Hi Kris,
Licensing laws (that I'm familiar with) requires you to pass an NCARB endorsed exam. To qualify for the exam you must either be a graduate of an accredited university/college and have worked for a licensed architect for a number of years or interned for a longer period of time.
Have you considered taking the exam? There are a number of home study aids as well as classroom opportunities to learn the academic elements.
I know several people who either never completed or attended college but diligently prepared and passed the exam.
You should look into it. Good luck. I'm sure you can do it.
Allen
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@mike lucey said:
I think everyone is enjoying all this speculation. One thing is for sure in my opinion, it is Google that will have the major benefit at the end of the day .... somehow. Mmmmm, maybe we could speculate as to how that might be the case?
I was thinking along this line:
Google was looking for a company that would help Google Earth being populated with very precise models in terms of location and volumes. Currently GE models are "simplified" by users and Google would like to see something way more advanced/automated.
From what I have learned so far, Trimble has an enormous experience and manufactures equipment that could fulfil the demand. Google has sold them the program + SketchUp patent and left 3D Warehouse available for 3D models created using highly improved SketchUp, Trimble 3D scanning technology and (?) cloud computing.
This would explain why other companies (Autodesk) didn't receive a chance to kill our favourite tool. This would mean 64bit, multi-core SketchUp with a support for Trimble's tools and maybe even advanced C++ SDK to work on a models very efficiently.@kwistenbiebel said:
Trimble: SketchUp fits with decade-long strategy
If they are thinking in those terms, in ten years there will be no problem to use very high resolution models of whole cities even on a "laptop".
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If in the future that means getting as-built drawing documentation becomes automated, OMG what a timesaver
... or another read of this is robotics comes to architecture, putting people out of work
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I think someone posted here: a TED presentation showing drones that fly around in a building and map it in 3d. So it's coming along. Regarding SU, We can guess and dream all we want til then....
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The SketchUp buyout seems like it can be a terrible thing for all of the people who have been able to ride the tide of inexpensive, intuitive and fast 3d modeling for the masses. SketchUp has changed the 3d modeling sphere forever and it pains me to think that all of the hard work and involvement of massive communities of users around the globe are quite possibly about to get squeezed for their potential like so many overgrown ripe grapes.
I'm wondering if they are going to go the route of Bonzai3d, incorporating the BIM aspects mentioned above and how that will change the entire process that every single SU user relies heavily on now.
Well, we shall see, i guess. In any case, SketchUp has been a game changer by truley bringing 3d modeling to the masses and delivering them from the previous industry standard programs such as Max, etc. that have become behemoths of the industry and quite pricey for such a large learning curve.
I can only hope that things go well and we get to experience a rebirth and rejuvination of SketchUp... that wont cost us too, too much.
bob
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Interesting, just posted on FB by Trimble:
http://www.sparpointgroup.com/News/Vol10No20-Trimble--SketchUp-fits-with-decade-long-strategy/
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From the Article - Trimble: SketchUp fits with decade-long strategy:
"Today, there is not a good facilitation from the data captured in the field through the workflow to the various back offices of the design and architecture firms and out again through to the contractor who is actually performing the work. "This is what I was hoping to hear. Having a clear consistent work flow and easy to obtain and manage data to create a model based on existing conditions is the missing piece. Google Earth Road View, aerials and terrain hinted at the possibilities but was never enough to get into the meat of design. The data was not clear or clean - pasting photos of buildings on surfaces is not accuracy nor is 50' interval terrain data.
Pipe dream but if I could obtain a 3D Site Survey and use it to model that would be amazing. AutoDesk Labs has been playing around with it as is the TIG3D Plugin. Take snap shot and create instant model.
Then on the other end, when doing CA, if your in the field, grab your camera or ipad, take a snap shot of detail in construction, have it transformed into 3D SketchUp and sent off as an annotated RFI to designer/ back to the office, would be another aspect.
Its about data integration and making it useful, at least to me. My own speculation, hopes and dreams.
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bonzai3d looks interesting. it would take me back to my grad school and formz days.
doesn't look like there is anything out there to integrate it into a 2d package for detailing though...
would hate to have to hack apart the model and get it smashed down for auto cadLT or similar. -
@alan fraser said:
So maybe we can look forward to a little more coding in C++ rather than relying on the great (but often necessarily slow) Ruby functions...as well as advanced features not currently available.
As oppose to Ruby C Extensions you can already make now? Ability is there - but, C and C++ has a much steeper Learning curve - which is probably one of the reasons why not many is using it. And not everything would have the immediate benefit of being done in C/C++.
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Actually Thom, I meant C++ in SketchUp itself...at least that's what I assume it's written in. In other words, what many people here have been carping about for years...that the usability is being driven forward more by you Ruby guys than by SketchUp itself.
Personally, I don't see it that way myself. I suspect that the opening up of the APi may well have been Boulder's way of allowing the userbase to drive SU in whichever direction it chose, having found itself somewhat constrained by meeting the fairly narrow needs of Google Earth. -
Worst case scenario - You'll still be using SketchUp 8 even after Trimble SketchUp comes out, and a decade after that as well.
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@alan fraser said:
I suspect that the opening up of the APi may well have been Boulder's way of allowing the userbase to drive SU in whichever direction it chose, having found itself somewhat constrained by meeting the fairly narrow needs of Google Earth.
We built the Ruby API to open SketchUp as a platform for development by the community. That much is correct— and from my perspective, it has been an astounding success. It has been a difficult project (here's a funny picture of me talking about the challenges in my keynote to last year's "International Symposium on End-User Design") but also a profoundly rewarding one.
Our "3D for everyone" modeler by definition will always lack features in specific vertical markets. ArchViz folks feel that SU lacks rendering tools. GIS folks feel it lacks mapping tools. BIM folks feel it lacks construction documentation tools. Etc. etc. etc.
By opening a rich and accessible API to the community, we enabled SU to operate as a platform rather than as a specialized tool. The "community," which is actually made up of a huge diversity of different communities, is free to adapt the platform to most satisfyingly meet their needs without cluttering the experience of others.
john
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As a professional non-AEC industrial(product) designer I have used and pushed SketchUp to its limits since atLast v4. I was drawn to its ease of learning, its insistent not-CAD concept tool mission, and the aesthetics of its raw visualization. These were certainly a result of atLast's passion and that DNA is resident in the legacy team. Google's brand style worked with that, though its obvious mission of modeling the earth was meaningless to me, and the limited real modeling improvements in each release were disappointing. Trimble, which I have known for its navigational stuff, is a strong company, but has no perceived creative style. It is good that the development team will be in a separate facility that hopefully will not be driven to mediocrity by a numbers only value system.
The vertical nature of Trimble and its civil engineering/GIS focus does not bode well for me, though for many of you it might.
GIS, survey and BIM are required information/parameters/documentation but are not the creative crux that lent the "sketch" to the product name. Those of us using SketchUp within an iterative process for designing products, interiors, gaming, entertainment, woodworking, displays and art may not fit anymore. I guess we'll see, but I am not counting on improved small stuff stability/accuracy. -
Hi all, this is my first post on this forum. (I have read all 31 pages of this thread btw)
I am really excited about this acquisition. I mean we've read from both John Bacus on this forum as well as from Trimble that the free version will remain and as many of you have pointed out... you can still use SU8 in a worst case scenario.
The reason I am excited is because of the tech that Trimble has and what the possibilities can mean for SU's future development. I am an architect by training, a techie enthusiast and am currently own a business where we do VDC, CAFM, and Surveying work. Before the announcement I had not heard about Trimble, although I am starting to appreciate the stuff they do and if I read that recent article correctly from Sparpoint... it seems that they will focus on creating a more robust application in the AEC field in order to get a smoother understanding of data from the screen to the field. Coming from the AEC field.. that is just awesome.
If you are not from that vertical, it still seems like the API will remain open and all the awesome developers will still crank out cool plugins to customize the workflow for specific needs.
Thanks JB for taking the time to comment on the thread. (Not sure if you remember but you and Mark spoke to my meetup group in NYC a few months ago... you guys rock!)
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Thanks for that, John. That's kind of what I was getting at...that the API allows the userbase to drive SU in whatever direction suits the individual user...something that you'd never be able to do, given it's diversity of uses. It would still be nice, however, to have some of the more basic functions like rounded edges or more sophisticated extrusion coded into the program.
I don't know what you and Trimble have planned exactly, but from the various blogs it sounds like what might be on the cards are different flavours of SketchUp for different sections of the AEC pipeline.
There seems to be some worry that this would turn SU into some BIM-oriented nightmare (for people not interested in BIM, that is), but I don't see why that should be the case. Surely an extension of the platform concept could mean that such extra functionality could, in effect be bolted onto the plain vanilla version? I'm assuming this is at least part of what Bryn Fosburgh was referring to when he talked about the underlying engine being sufficiently robust.
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