Have you had a model stolen?
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An interesting dilemma concerning creating a SU model of the Bridge below, came from my SU model image posting celebrating the ten year anniversary event on the TFG forum at http://forums.tfguild.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=27429#Post27429
The next posted reply was not expected.
"Hi Irv,I wonder if what you have posted above is a breach of copyright ?
We all of us here know the original designer of this bridge.
I am sure that no offence is intended (either way) and hence I simply raise this as a topic for thought, comment and discussion.
Regards"
I have carved this wood model for myself and is not for sale(design by Reid Costley and Ed Levin) .
The question is how far do you need to go, when modelling public structures that already exist?
Cheers
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I don't think I'd lose any sleep over it, Irv. If that was the case, half the 3D Warehouse and the entire modern section of Great Buildings would be in the same boat.
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I guess the rule of thumb here is
Don't post anything you would not give away for free.
There are a few ways to prove a model is yours in case it ever gets to the stage where somebody is selling your model and/or claiming ownership.
Put an ownership text block in a corner, defining how it can be used.
See my models in the warehouse, lower right corner. Not foolproof, especially if the slimer knows SU.Hide your name inside the model, as a group, not a comp that can easily be found. There are many ways to make that invisible, but only you will know exactly where to find it.
But if there are people out there willing to buy a copy of your model for a few hundred $$$, you be the first to sell it. I could not believe some of the prices I saw on TurboSquid.
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Just found this on the warehouse, posted by GoldenSim --
Went to the site and sure enuf, there was my Caddy. Admittedly, he did some work on it, had to 'cause I hadn't finished it, but it's definitely my Caddy. Funny thing is, he actually gives me credit down at the bottom. Strange.
Here's GoldenSim's post in the Warehouse --
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=edf9c6c0afc0605d8c5fe7d2e262dff3&prevstart=0
And here's the site in question --
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TIG just posted an "Invisible Font" which would be ideal to hide copyright notices inside your models.
Only you would know where they are.
See the topic......
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42569&p=379946#p379946
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Thats great for Sketchup models, but probably won't help if the model is exported to OBJ or other file format, which is what often happens on Cornucopia3D or Turbosquid.
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As Joel said, don't post anything you wouldn't give away for free. It's pretty simple. And basically assume that anything you post on 3DWH or any other public site is going to be taken and sold--changed or unchanged by someone else.
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@jgb said:
TIG just posted an "Invisible Font" which would be ideal to hide copyright notices inside your models.
I've been using onscreen texts. Nobody can claim not having noticed my license info, but it can easily be removed (thus invisible font is a good idea). I guess if someone exports the model to an arbitrary format, even the invisible font is lost?
I thought, maybe one could "hide" messages by tweaking vertex coordinates (like the model scrambler)...
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Another of my models being sold on Cornucopia3D. And again he actually gives me credit. Just don't understand why he would be selling my model (an improved version, with engine and such) and acknowledge that it is my model. Maybe he thinks that makes it OK.
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I'm guessing he think the model was available for distribution and modification without any restrictions.
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So Steve, I'm curious. Will you continue to share your models so someone else can sell them?
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I hope he does as it's paying for my trip to Barbados.
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@unknownuser said:
I hope he does as it's paying for my trip to Barbados.
I almost blew coffee on my keyboard!
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Seems to me that their broker 'Gil Stephane' is being disingenuous.
Taking someone else's 'freely' available work and supplying it to others also freely in OK.
But to charge for it is at the very least immoral.
It comes down to the extent of the copyrighted reuse.
If he had modeled the whole car himself but used your headlights, giving you a credit for your partial contribution, then I think his charging for it might have been fair - as he did most of the work.
BUT when he takes your whole car and adds a few extras onto to it, then his work is less than yours.
That's OK if he agreed with you to share the proceeds in proportion but not to rip you off.You should make representations to Cornucopia3d and/or Gil for reparation !
Alternatively... why not join Cornucopia3d.com and buy your model [~$15].
[Bear with me there is logic in this...]
Immediately become one of their 'brokers' and post the model back [unchanged], but charge about half the price Gil does [~$8].
Stress in your associated notes that it's the exact same model as his - BUT by the original author - 'at half the cost', and of course graciously credit him with the few extras he's added.
You only need to sell two to be in profit thereafter.
People would be stupid to buy the more expensive 'counterfeit' version...
He can't really object since you already 'own' the bulk of the car, and your re-marketing it including a few bits that he made is as nothing to the overall thing...
Because you made the bulk of the car, I think your [re]selling it including his few extras is readily justifiable, as opposed to his position.
Even if you didn't sell many you'd at least feel you 'gave him the finger'... -
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According to their Terms of Service, at least the way I read it, selling my models is in violation of the following section, specifically Section (a) --
Copyright
*By uploading files (e.g. images) to this website you:
(a) warrant and represent that the files you upload are original and do not infringe any copyright, trademark, or other intellectual property rights or personal or proprietary rights of any person or entity or contain any scandalous, libelous or unlawful matter, and that the files do not contain any virus or Trojan Horse or other software routine designed to permit unauthorized access, to disable, erase, or otherwise harm software, hardware, or data, and
(b) authorize e-on software to publish and/or distribute such files. This authorization constitutes a perpetual license to publish the files worldwide, in any and all languages, for all formats and in all media now known, or hereafter developed. Such license shall include without limitation, the right to (i) reproduce and duplicate the files, (ii) combine the files with other materials, (iii) rename and/or reorganize the files, and (iv) use any trademarks contained in the files as contemplated by this license.You retain all copyright and intellectual property rights to the files you upload to this community, but you agree that Cornucopia3D management cannot be held responsible for any use of your materials by a third party without your agreement.*
I have sent an email to their "Customer Support Staff", but am not too hopeful. Apparently a lot of their sales inventory is based on stuff taken from the 3D Warehouse, and I doubt they will willingly delete those models when they profit from each sale. We'll see.
Dave, as far as your question about whether I will continue to post my models on the Warehouse so that other people can sell them, well, my situation is somewhat unique in that the Warehouse is my only way of sharing my models. Except for that and these forums no one else will ever see my work (except for my cat, and he doesn't seem to have an opinion). And I have only posted a few of my cars on the Warehouse (so far)
I suppose creating something just for the satisfaction of creating it has it's merits, but let's face it, it's just basic human nature to want to show our "accomplishments" to others. I always hoped that someone would play with my models, customize them, change them like they have with so many others. Well, that hasn't happened, possibly because they are so large. Maybe I should post some "stripped-down" versions, take away all the textures, less detail, whatever.
And, along those lines, I suppose that in some small, perverse way I am honored that someone has deemed my models worthy of being taken, improved and sold. Hey, not every model on the Warehouse has achieved that "honor". But don't get me wrong, I don't like somebody else profiting from my efforts, and I will fight it, if I can, just because what they are doing is basically wrong.
I guess the bottom line (for me) is either take the risk, or just let my work rot here on my computer.
Well, I'm rambling, I'm hungry, gotta feed my brain.
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So from that copyright text, it is clear that the person selling your model is violating their copyright rules. I hope you do get a positive response from their Customer Support Staff.
As to sharing your models, I see your point. Perhaps you could share them via 2D Graphic exports instead of the 3D models. You can make as many views as you deem necessary and put them on an online album to share with others. As Jean would say, "Just ideas."
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@dave r said:
Perhaps you could share them via 2D Graphic exports instead of the 3D models.
I've never really cared for 2D representations of 3D models. The fun of SU is being able to move all around the model, take it apart, change it, paint it... That's why I've never really appreciated the render pgms, they're just fancy photos of the real thing.
I'm hoping eventually they'll come out with some sort of 3D versions of movies. Nah, that'll never happen.
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I've downloaded your models for a peek at your workflow. I've also rendered some for fun. What I'm hoping to happen is that you'll start to learn a render app at some stage as they deserve some loving attention.
You always threaten to but have yet to start. You'll get lots of help here when you do start. Remember, everyone is crap at rendering to begin with. Persistence is key to understanding.
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Maybe I should download your models and make hand drawn sketches of them.
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