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    Who said SketchUp doesn't need to be 64 bit?

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    • jeff hammondJ Offline
      jeff hammond
      last edited by

      @pcmoor said:

      so chess is 32 bit, that is 16 bits each side, so is Go game 64?,

      no- chess.app is 64bit..
      each square is 1bit
      ๐Ÿ˜‰

      dotdotdot

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      • jeff hammondJ Offline
        jeff hammond
        last edited by

        @unknownuser said:

        Chees is cool but Go Game is better! ๐Ÿ’š

        i watch this show called Da Vinci's Demons and in it, the pope likes to play that game with his prisoner.. i didn't realize it was a real game.. i'll check it out ๐Ÿ‘

        dotdotdot

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        • KrisidiousK Offline
          Krisidious
          last edited by

          @pcmoor said:

          so chess is 32 bit, that is 16 bits each side, so is Go game 64?,

          So much win here I don't know what to do with it...

          By: Kristoff Rand
          Home DesignerUnique House Plans

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          • KrisidiousK Offline
            Krisidious
            last edited by

            @unknownuser said:

            Chees is cool but Go Game is better! ๐Ÿ’š

            http://www.3dsaloon.fr/phpbb3/download/file.php?id=2679&t=1

            And in skp ๐Ÿ’š In V6 so should be working in V7, V8, 2013, 2014! ๐Ÿ˜†
            It's scenes so you can play the animation too!

            Is that Chinese Checkers? I've never played it.

            By: Kristoff Rand
            Home DesignerUnique House Plans

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            • pilouP Offline
              pilou
              last edited by

              @unknownuser said:

              so chess is 32 bit, that is 16 bits each side, so is Go game 64?

              I don't know ๐Ÿ’š
              But as Go is 19 * 19 : 19 = 8 * 2.375
              So Go is 32 * 2.375 = 76 bits ๐Ÿ˜†

              Chees is resolved by computer! ๐Ÿ˜ฎ 10 power 123 reasonnable estimation numbers of plays
              Go Game is resisting! ๐Ÿ˜Ž 10 power 600 reasonnable estimation numbers of plays ๐Ÿค“
              Chess is a destructive game you have nothing at the end! Just 2 Kings very tired + a pawn! ๐Ÿ’š
              Go Game is constructive! โ˜€
              At the end you can see what happend during the play!
              A marvelous zen Landscape! ๐Ÿ˜Ž

              http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/FloorGoban.JPG

              @unknownuser said:

              Is that Chinese Checkers?

              No Go game is not! This is Chinese Checkers

              http://www.quirao.com/qimage/p/moy300/p4/jeu-de-societe-morize-chavet-djambi-rigide-mo0969.jpg

              It's totally other thing!
              And Go game is the oldest game in the world and the more intrigating!
              with a truelly simplicississmus rule! ๐Ÿ˜ฒ
              Chees has an headache rule : you must remember all different moves of the pieces for a butchery! ๐Ÿ’š

              Go game has a rule so simple than the Game of Life of John Conway!
              (for the Little Story John Conway has researced the Game of Life on a Goban! (the cheeker of Go Game ๐Ÿ˜‰
              Try Golly (free)

              http://golly.sourceforge.net/ticker.gif

              Go game has a very smart and very easy Handicap system! ๐Ÿค“

              So Chees is the King of games, Go game is the Emperor of games! ๐Ÿ˜Ž

              Frenchy Pilou
              Is beautiful that please without concept!
              My Little site :)

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              • massimoM Offline
                massimo Moderator
                last edited by

                @unknownuser said:

                Chees is resolved by computer! ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

                Of course that's not true Pilou. ๐Ÿ˜„
                It's true however that with few pieces on the board (I think today we got to 7) the computers with tablebases can solve every position... but pieces are 32. ๐Ÿ˜‰

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                • pilouP Offline
                  pilou
                  last edited by

                  You are joking ?
                  Now you have quasi any chance to win against a computer! ๐Ÿ˜’ (except unplug it! ๐Ÿ’š
                  Send me your party if you win! ๐Ÿ˜‰
                  Even World's Champion cry! It's for that you don't see too much computers in human competition! ๐Ÿ’š

                  http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zvt7OfJ3YmM/Ta8bGC5iAfI/AAAAAAAADhs/Zr9w7qV6ySE/s1600/game_over_kasparov_and_the_machine_xlg.jpg

                  Frenchy Pilou
                  Is beautiful that please without concept!
                  My Little site :)

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                  • massimoM Offline
                    massimo Moderator
                    last edited by

                    I didn't say that humans have a lot of chances against computers today even if, strategically speaking, humans are by far superior to computers. But that's not really important: cars can run faster that humans but you still can enjoy a 100 m sprint. I just said that chess is not "solved" and the proof is that a computer can still beat a computer (maybe even a human, lets say Carlsen, can win a game against a computer and draw few). So, I mean, you only have the mathematical certainty of the solution of every position only with few pieces on the board. ๐Ÿ˜‰

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                    • PixeroP Offline
                      Pixero
                      last edited by

                      Surely this thread has taken a new direction? ๐Ÿ˜’

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                      • massimoM Offline
                        massimo Moderator
                        last edited by

                        It seems so, sorry. ๐Ÿ˜†

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                        • pilouP Offline
                          pilou
                          last edited by

                          Just a little deviation! ๐Ÿ˜„
                          Happy Easter eggs! ๐Ÿ˜„

                          PS
                          @unknownuser said:

                          a computer can still beat a computer

                          Good vicious point! Because one of these computers is maybe "the ultima Master one" ๐Ÿ˜‰

                          Frenchy Pilou
                          Is beautiful that please without concept!
                          My Little site :)

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                          • jeff hammondJ Offline
                            jeff hammond
                            last edited by

                            @pixero said:

                            Surely this thread has taken a new direction? ๐Ÿ˜’

                            i highly doubt anybody from trimble is going to talk about this anymore.. pretty much anything that can be said about it already has.. at this point, it's either going to be 64bit or not and i don't think the end users have any say in the matter.. up to now, the stance is pretty much "if you want sketchup to be 64bit then too bad"

                            dotdotdot

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                            • olisheaO Offline
                              olishea
                              last edited by

                              sketchup is dying a slow death.

                              oli

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                              • pbacotP Offline
                                pbacot
                                last edited by

                                You guys never played Go? A whole other world. Huge history and cultural background China -Japan-Korea. Big online presence too. Very addictive. Built-in handicap system helps learning (you get to play for a while without getting slaughtered as in chess).

                                MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                                • A Offline
                                  AirWindSolar
                                  last edited by

                                  @jeff hammond said:

                                  up to now, the stance is pretty much "if you want sketchup to be 64bit then too bad"

                                  You forgot the part about "shut up and give us money annually for ignoring you. If we're feeling really generous, we'll give you a little tiny bit of what you paid for in the first place, eventually."

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                                  • M Offline
                                    mac1
                                    last edited by

                                    @airwindsolar said:

                                    @jeff hammond said:

                                    up to now, the stance is pretty much "if you want sketchup to be 64bit then too bad"

                                    You forgot the part about "shut up and give us money annually for ignoring you. If we're feeling really generous, we'll give you a little tiny bit of what you paid for in the first place, eventually."

                                    You need to change your profile license type shows free??

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                                    • AndrewSA Offline
                                      AndrewS
                                      last edited by

                                      @pixero said:

                                      Today I got the proof and I have an image to prove it.
                                      SketchUp ran out of memory.
                                      [attachment=0:n8sxhz9s]<!-- ia0 -->SUoutofmemory.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:n8sxhz9s]

                                      Nuf said. ๐Ÿค“

                                      You can claim it's enough said if you want, but I'll disagree.

                                      Yes, it's true that SketchUp ran out of memory, obviously. The part that isn't clear is how much it was using at the time, and why it ran out. Without more details, it simply isn't possible to know whether it was truly a result of the 32-bit allocation limits.

                                      For instance, it's possible that SketchUp was well below the 32-bit allocation threshold and that other misbehaving apps or a bug in the OS prevented SketchUp from allocating any additional memory when there was still plenty of ceiling available. As an example, there was a leak in the Apple WindowServer process on the Mac a few years back that caused out-of-memory errors with SketchUp 8 if the user remained logged in for too long without a reboot. Severe memory fragmentation and poor management by the OS can cause this problem as well; if SketchUp were to ask for too large a chunk of memory to be serviced in a contiguous allocation, a failure would result. Finally, it's also possible that SketchUp ran out of memory due to a memory leak in SketchUp that caused it to chew up all of the 32-bit mapped memory incorrectly. Of course such an issue would clearly be a bug in SketchUp that we'd need to address, but while it's true 64 bits worth of memory would help, there's no guarantee it wouldn't simply run out again after exhausting the whole machine memory (which for most people is what, maybe double what they can access via 32-bit, particularly considering that SketchUp is compiled for large address awareness).

                                      It's absolutely possible you hit the 32-bit ceiling and that a 64-bit binary would fix it. However, without further details, it is not possible to know the nature of why this problem occurred with any certainty, or to have any clear proof that a 64-bit application would be immune. That's why say it's just not quite "enough said." I'm not trying to be contrary, just scientifically accurate.

                                      For all those insisting a 64-bit SketchUp binary is the holy grail, although I won't go into the details that we engineers have turned blue explaining in the past, I'll add one more data point that I don't think anyone has openly considered. Given the size, complexity, organization and nature of the SketchUp application code, I personally estimate it would take on the order of two to three man years to reliably port it to 64-bit and achieve an equivalent level of reliability from the end product. That means that even if we were to apply our entire SketchUp client engineering team in that endeavor, it's probably a still several months worth of work just to perform the appropriate modifications, say nothing of the testing effort. One must consider that to add 64-bit support would increase our testing surface by at least 2X, taking time away from anything else QA might light to test.

                                      To put this differently, the point is that one must consider whether the production of a 64-bit binary alone provides enough benefit to warrant sacrificing all of the other things that might be accomplished with such effort. Although many SketchUcation users are traditionally very outspoken about their preference for a 64-bit application (even if many of them don't actually understand the full implications), this community is only a drop in the ocean compared to the multiple millions of active SketchUp users in the world, and I very much doubt that anywhere near even 5% of world-wide Pro users would see tangible gains from adding 64-bit support (let alone Make users).

                                      Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that we should never port to 64-bit; in fact, I have been a long-time proponent of the notion that we should. I'm just pointing out the incredibly high cost of that effort. It's not something to be undertaken lightly.

                                      Andrew

                                      Andrew S.
                                      SketchUp Release Engineer

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                                      • soloS Offline
                                        solo
                                        last edited by

                                        @unknownuser said:

                                        Although many SketchUcation users are traditionally very outspoken about their preference for a 64-bit application (even if many of them don't actually understand the full implications), this community is only a drop in the ocean compared to the multiple millions of active SketchUp users in the world, and I very much doubt that anywhere near even 5% of world-wide Pro users would see tangible gains from adding 64-bit support (let alone Make users).

                                        Hmmm, I'd like to see this challenged, I believe most people with a computer manufactured this millennium would want it, especially folks that use 3rd party integrated software.

                                        http://www.solos-art.com

                                        If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                                        • N Offline
                                          numerobis
                                          last edited by

                                          @andrews said:

                                          Given the size, complexity, organization and nature of the SketchUp application code, I personally estimate it would take on the order of two to three man years to reliably port it to 64-bit and achieve an equivalent level of reliability from the end product. That means that even if we were to apply our entire SketchUp client engineering team in that endeavor, it's probably a still several months worth of work just to perform the appropriate modifications...

                                          Interesting argumentation - how long did it take to implement the revolutionary arc tool or all those fancy additions to layout?

                                          But maybe you're right... x64 will not be very helpful for sketchup without high (or at least higher) poly support and faster saving - files with more than 100MB are almost unworkable with activated autosave.

                                          Btw. it's 2014 now, Win XP x64 is available since 2005...

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                                          • pilouP Offline
                                            pilou
                                            last edited by

                                            Increase just the hard size memory don't resolve some problems of 32 bits with widows 8 ?

                                            Frenchy Pilou
                                            Is beautiful that please without concept!
                                            My Little site :)

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