A new home for SketchUp
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@thomthom said:
@kwistenbiebel said:
very important that Sketchup runs faster for bigger projects (64 bit/higher polygon capabilities , faster with sun-shadows on/ faster outliner etc...
You are aware that 64bit doesn't mean faster speeds, right? Just more memory.
http://blogs.sas.com/content/sasdummy/2012/04/19/myths-about-64-bit-computing-on-windows/Does this apply to mac osx as well as windows ? How is it modo blender and numerous other applications are moving in this direction ? Surely larger memory usage will help performance and support larger poly models ? I am well aware that sketch up would need to be re-written to use multiple cpu's but at sometime we all see beach balls and egg timers right ? (like Kwisten mentioned exploding objects etc is a killer)
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@chedda said:
Does this apply to mac osx as well as windows ? How is it modo blender and numerous other applications are moving in this direction ? Surely larger memory usage will help performance and support larger poly models ? I am well aware that sketch up would need to be re-written to use multiple cpu's but at sometime we all see beach balls and egg timers right ? (like Kwisten mentioned exploding objects etc is a killer)
These are old arguments, frequently discussed by me and others. CAD software is notoriously resistent to multithreading and 64-bit doesn't make models run faster. What you really want, what all users want, is software that runs whatever model you are working on today faster. Historically, we've delivered 'faster' with every release.
john
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This is what I hear with ear to the ground. Don't quote me. My hearing is bad
At the top of their list is a plan to capture ruby revenue. A panel will choose a select group of rubies and start to negotiate with the owners. This ruby set will be provided with a permanent front end in SU. You can bet they will be in the positioning application vertical.Since they are trying to capture a ruby revenue stream they will create a STK that must be used to develop and install/register. You will have to use their kit.
Then look for a complete name change in the new year. Trimble will attempt to raise the profile from blue jeans to shirt and tie. The “sketchy” reputation is something they will quickly position themselves to resolve. As for the name change. No serious Sketchup user will drop the tool because of a name change but new customers will turn their heads. The word Sketchup will disappear forever.
Set your browser to http://www.forums.trimble-u-cation.com….....lol
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@kwistenbiebel said:
A very simple example: exploding a large model is not possible in an elegant way, if you're lucky it actually worked after SU being unresponsive for 4 hours.
+1 Exploding is very slow - it's not exploding itself - but adding geometry to SketchUp. The more geometry in the context you add geometry to - the slower it takes. When you explode you quickly see the effect of this because it can often mean a huge amount of geometry. I can only speculate, but I suspect that part of that might be SketchUp's auto-split feature - where geometry automatically merges - something very few other modelling tools has.
@chedda said:
How is it modo blender and numerous other applications are moving in this direction ?
They often include render engines - render engines do have advantage of more memory. It also in a great deal the render engines that makes up for the "multi-core" features for these applications. The modelling tools are still using single core - because mostly they cannot be split into multiple cores-
@chedda said:
Surely larger memory usage will help performance and support larger poly models ?
No - more memory just means more memory. There is nothing inherit in that it will be faster and perform any other magic action. Remember that 64bit means that the datatypes also consumes twice as much as 32bit - that's double the data!
@chedda said:
(like Kwisten mentioned exploding objects etc is a killer)
Yes - many features would be very nice with improved performance - though that race will never end. They up the performance and we will still demand more. But being generic about the requests is much better - explaining your ultimate goal "better performance" - instead of demanding a technical implementation (64bit, multicore) assuming it's the holy grail of solutions. They make the software - they know their trade - they know what to do in order to gain performance. Often a new algorithm can bring a massive performance gain. So don't be disillusioned over 64bit, multicore or other buzz-words - emphasize on your abstract goal and communicate that.
Another thing to consider when comparing applications - SketchUp do live-render it's sketchy style in the viewport - where many other of the heavy weight applications will degrade the viewport experience. They are relying on the model to be rendered with a render engine - SketchUp has a built in render engine generating presentation graphics on the fly. This takes it toll on performance. In addition it has a smart inference engine rarely featured in other applications - which also consumes it's share of the performance. Then it's the automatic merge and split of faces - it's doing a lot of work constantly which other doesn't.
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@unknownuser said:
This is what I hear with ear to the ground. Don't quote me. My hearing is bad
At the top of their list is a plan to capture ruby revenue. A panel will choose a select group of rubies and start to negotiate with the owners. This ruby set will be provided with a permanent front end in SU. You can bet they will be in the positioning application vertical.Since they are trying to capture a ruby revenue stream they will create a STK that must be used to develop and install/register. You will have to use their kit.
Then look for a complete name change in the new year. Trimble will attempt to raise the profile from blue jeans to shirt and tie. The “sketchy” reputation is something they will quickly position themselves to resolve. As for the name change. No serious Sketchup user will drop the tool because of a name change but new customers will turn their heads. The word Sketchup will disappear forever.
Set your browser to http://www.forums.trimble-u-cation.com….....lol
Is this just pure guesswork or do you have something to back this up with?
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I just sat down over my morning cappuchino and read this thread from front to back again, and was left with one overwhelming thought. You guys are awesome. Really.
Change is tough for everyone and there's every reason to fear that things could go completely pear-shaped at any moment. There's no way to say for sure what will happen. We're making some sausage here, and that isn't always the most elegant thing to watch.
But we've been making SketchUp-style sausage for a long time now and have survived many adversities. We've had a fair measure of success, too. There is absolutely no rational reason why a tiny little startup like ours should have been able to stand up against entrenched industry mega-competitors. The reason it has worked is... you guys— the designers, builders and makers of things. The people who worry about us.
If you're worried, then I'm confident. People who could care less if we make it don't 'worry'— they just don't show up at all. And one thing we know for sure is that people actually use SketchUp. They are showing up in droves, as it turns out.
Hang in there— this is going to be... fun!
john
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I'm really interested to see how it goes. I have every confidence it'll be good.
Glad you are staying with the team as well as the rest who are.
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No info about price of Pro Version ?
Increase / decrease / stable ? -
@unknownuser said:
No info about price of Pro Version ?
Increase / decrease / stable ?It seems kind of early for that sort of info, doesn't it?
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Good news Sketchup moved away from Google. Google was not in any way a CAD company. I see that Trimble also has Tekla. Tekla has a good reputation here in the Netherlands for Civil engineering software and is the biggest competitor for Revit. That is for the field of construction and engineering. From what I have heard Tekla has better integrated 3D modelling and 2Doutput than Revit.
With 30 millions users things are not going to change overnight. I hope the long term brings us a much better 3D modeller in terms of speed and integration with renderapplications and 2D output. Revit is showing architects are more and more involved in 3D modeling combined with BIM engineering. Sketchup has not evolved at all in that direction yet. With Trimble we might see a more serious attempt to model and engineer with Sketchup.
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ummm... wow.
chris<pixelmonkey>:D -
I've been told that SU will be greatly simplified.
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@unknownuser said:
Then look for a complete name change in the new year. Trimble will attempt to raise the profile from blue jeans to shirt and tie. The “sketchy” reputation is something they will quickly position themselves to resolve. As for the name change. No serious Sketchup user will drop the tool because of a name change but new customers will turn their heads. The word Sketchup will disappear forever.
Set your browser to http://www.forums.trimble-u-cation.com….....lol
I would doubt that the name would change. 10 years of brand recognition. While many companies are re-branding, Comcast to XFinity, QWest to CenturyLink, as examples, usually its because of negative public sentiment with the Brand.
30 million downloads and 2 million active users for a 3D modeling program is great Brand recognition. -
..no not fully guess work but for the name change.
Trimble is about to baptise The 3Dwarehouse and GE.
@unknownuser said:
the SketchUp engine will be integrated into Trimble's current solutions in its Engineering and Construction, Field Solutions and Mobile Solutions segments.
I think it will be all good but the focus is moving with a big step towards engineering. Those that have turned GE and the warehouse into assets (in whatever disipline) are going to win big.
On the tool kit...So far it has been an extravaganza. There will have to be a more unified approach to the new core....Engineers are not going to except that your ruby could damage their infrastucture. This will be good for ruby developers although it will require more scrutiny of the ruby supply chain.
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Is it just coincidence that some of the more negative and sceptical comments come from people relatively new to this forum...and probably the software. I see that one of them signed up today, presumably to specifically post a downer...4 minutes after joining. Others have devoted almost all their limited number of posts so far to this single topic.
We've heard all this before when Google acquired @Last..."They'll kill it off." "They'll ruin it then dump it." "Better learn Blender/Modo/Hexagon/Wings3D/Rhino/Max/Insert Program of Choice."
Development under Google wasn't always as rapid as I'd have liked, or always in directions that were relevant to me personally...but SU is unquestionably streets ahead now from where it was then.
I fully expect to be using this software for years to come, producing assets for everyone from architecture through interior design and landscaping to movie previz; and I fully expect it to keep improving its capabilities in those areas.
There's nothing in any information currently available that would lead you to think otherwise...unless you deliberately go out of your way to put the worst possible interpretation on everything. -
Well said, Alan.
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@jbacus said:
Since this deal hasn't yet closed, there are specific legal restrictions that control what Trimble can say. That's why you don't see them here. Until then, you'll have to be satisfied with what's said on this site. You should expect to see more information added there as things progress.
John, we're really glad you are here answering questions, and we know you and the team are apparently all really happy with what has been promised/offered to you. It's not that we don't trust you, we (certainly I) haven't seen anything so far that gives mea any reason to trust Trimble. They may be good guys, but their website is a mess and it doesn't relate to to or engage end user customers in the slightest. It's vague, unfriendly, difficult to find stuff, and full of commercial speak that is almost meaningless
We've all seen mergers before where the staff are all really pleased, because it often means job security and direction, where previously it was lacking, and sometimes it also means more money. However, I've tried to look at what the company already does, as a means of giving me confidence that these are the guys to push SU forwards in ways we have all been dreaming of.
So far it's not looking good. No screenshots, no Mac versions, no galleries, no nice friendly product pages, no forums, no awe-inspiring 3d software portfolio. This is the public face of a company that is principally known for making survey equipment, and they think we're going to be enthused about the takeover on this basis? They don't even speak the same language! This sentence, "SketchUp and the 3D Warehouse, together with other Trimble Tools from Accubid, HHK, Meridian, Plancal, QuickPen, Tekla, Trimble Business Center and the Trimble Connected Community will provide a stand-alone and enterprise solution that will enable an integrated and seamless workflow to reduce rework and improve productivity for the customer" gives us some clues about some of the other apps Trimble have.
However they are a disparate bunch of totally separate applications, mainly related to building services, with minimal information about any of them and no evidence of a consistent corporate branding or integration strategy. Without exception, all the websites for these products are uniformly awful. How is this integration going to work? Obviously that's rhetorical
Are they proposing to make Mac versions of all their applications, or drop the SU Mac version, or basically leave the Mac version to stagnate without the stuff they are proposing to integrate.Most of us don't use 'field data models' and aren't terribly excited about 'project management tools'. We love SketchUp because it's creative, fun and easy.
I don't buy the argument that Trimble can't or won't say anything until the deal is done. What on earth is wrong with coming out with a nice reassuring statement saying something like, "Hi, we're Trimble, you might not have heard of us, but we've been doing this and that for such and such years, we're really excited to be taking on SketchUp, we know there is a vibrant community, we would like to reassure you that we aren't planning to kill off all the cool stuff. We love your enthusiasm and we're really looking forward to working with you all to make SketchUp a better product, with more relevance (or whatever) to you all for the future." Not exactly going to make the shareholders or investors run for the hills is it?
I'm not totally averse to the idea of integrating some new functionality from existing applications into a more advanced, building-specific version of SketchUp, with better support for site survey data and with integrated modules for structural and building services design in a BIM-type IFC compliant wrapper. I'm just not totally convinced that Trimble are the people to do it well without losing the things about SketchUp we all love.
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I always think that change is cathartic, and I am guardedly optimistic about this announcement. I was less than enthused about Google buying out @last, and certainly some of my initial fears turned out to be spot on.
Development of SU core features has been less than earth shattering under the Google watch. Yes, they fixed the shadow bug, solid tools was a great addition, layout was at least released finally, and the geo-locating is certainly useful. All great things individually, but, looked at over the time span of 6 years, it is a little lean.
However, the lack of meaningful development of Layout has been very disappointing to me, and, if not for all of our fantastic plug-in ninjas, the core features of SU have changed very little in the past 5-6 years. Performance has had incremental increases, which have been greatly appreciated from my end, but we all know that SU has a long way to go before it can really perform at a pro level for large poly models.
I always had the feeling that the development team was never given the freedom and cash to push push push.
This forum is littered with requests that have gone noticed but not at all acted on. I spent a lot of time compiling and posting about things I thought Layout could fine tune, and there was great response from the guys in Boulder, but, in the end, nothing changed. I fear for the future of Layout much more than I fear for the future of Sketchup. While I use it exclusively to generate my shop drawings and blueprints, the process has an undertone of frustration with the clunky dimensioning, shocking lack of hatching (are you kidding me?) and terrible performance in vector mode. and page numbering, hahaha.
The places where I thought SU could improve the most seem, on the surface anyway, as more likely to be addressed by Trimble than they were by Google. But, one wonders about a company that has been swallowing companies like a shark in a pool (3 already in 2012!) The idea of being able to integrate and making meaningful upgrades all while either subsuming or attempting to maintain myriad corporate structures and attitudes sounds incredibly difficult. It sure seems like Trimble decided to carve out a huge swath of BIM/GIS market share; what is less obvious is what they are going to do with all this new stuff and user base.
I guess I can stop holding my breath for a layout update anytime soon. Sigh... but with fingers crossed
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I really can't believe that people judge a company by just looking at their web site! Google doesn't even have a company site! You probably would have preferred Adobe to buy SU, right? Do you think it would be a free version anymore?
No one can tell today what SU will become tomorrow, so all the words and the apprehention is both useless and early, to me.
Let's use our SU v8 for now. We'll see how v9 will be.
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