@pep75 said:

I had a Nvidia 8800GTS 32OmB card and sold it to buy myself a "professional" graphic card with sufficient memory on it.

video memory is typically no issue, at least using a video card w/ 256/512mb on board (not shared w/ the OS). More memory does not improve the output speed in any way and thus is not recommendable besides other apps as e.g. raytracing programs can make use of it

@pep75 said:

The card costed 500,- euros and a 8800 gts costed 150,-. And well I can hardly see the difference between these two really. OK, the Quadro card is slighty faster, but I'm really not stunned.

the Quadro FX series provides an improved maturity and stability for the OpenGL based 3D output mainly for mid-range/high-end CAx apps and the driver optimizations available for them. The speed in connection w/ mesh-based 'standard' modelers as e.g. SU or Raytracing apps will normally not profit by using a Quadro FX, actually a GeForce in the same price range is often faster because of using a more recent GPU.

@pep75 said:

I'm working on a 64bit platform (windows 7),8gb memory, the processor is a 6600 quadcore and my hardisk is a 80gb Intel X25 ssd. Cinema4d is going like a razor but Sketchup feels like sluggish....

C4D is multi-threaded, SU currently not. Which is understandable because slicing a render task generating raster data (i.e. pixels) is much easier than distributing vector based modeling operations over several kernels.

The only way to improve the performance of SU is to use a faster CPU in the sense of speed of one (1) kernel, i.e. a faster dual core is better than a slower quad core... currently.

hth,
Norbert

@pep75 said:

Does anyone have a good preset for a Quadro 1700 card that I can load into the NVIDIA control.

do not change the OpenGL default settings (e.g. "let the application decide..") which are already fine for SU, do not increase anti-aliasing which might slow down OGL output speed.

@pep75 said:

I'm not so satisfied about the card ...

what exactly is the problem?

use the latest driver for your os, if using a desktop system with Win x32 the recent driver revision is 190.38 from 23.07.09:

http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx

hth,
Norbert

@mahuska said:

any thoughts on this?

what is your main monitor, i.e. monitor #1: the left or the right one?

if the right one this effect might have something to do with having negative screen coordinates on the left monitor.

flipping them, i.e. changing the left monitor to be the main monitor should then fix this problem.

hth,
Norbert

@quantum said:

That says nothing relevant.

of course, what do they know at all...

@unknownuser said:

Integrated graphics solutions, or shared graphics solutions are graphics processors that utilize a portion of a computer's system RAM rather than dedicated graphics memory. Computers with integrated graphics account for 90% of all PC shipments[6]. These solutions are cheaper to implement than dedicated graphics solutions, but are less capable.

@quantum said:

And no, this chip is -not- shared. Don't you have any sense? There is no other GPU in this system.

no, I do not have any non-sense

do you have read and understood anything of the links I have posted above? obviously not!

sharing means sharing the working/main memory with the system instead of using own, fast video memory as dedicated solutions do.

@quantum said:

You clearly do not understand this chip, or are badly behind the times.

of course, what else...

@quantum said:

Are you meaning to say that my IGP does not meet these specs?

at least in connection with Wine and the used driver:

@quantum said:

In XP when I start it, I get 'OpenGL failed'.

@quantum said:

Do you think that this is an ATI Radeon or an Intel based card?

no, why should I do this?

@quantum said:

Wrong.

right.

@quantum said:

Think I'm helping you, with this attitude? Think again.

not really... it was meant as a rhetoric question, I did not have expected an answer... simply because there is none.

've made my day, again
Norbert

@quantum said:

This is not a shared video chip.

it is

@quantum said:

It is IGP.

= Integrated Graphics Solution = shared graphics solution = low-end

@quantum said:

Is SketchUp not intended to run on IGP?

yes.

disable the OGL hardware acceleration in the SU settings if you wanna use the OGL in software computed by the CPU instead on the GPU... good enough for simple models, too lame for bigger models (depending on the CPU).

@quantum said:

Then why isn't this noted in the System Requirements?!

it is:
• 3D class Video Card with 512+ MB of memory or higher. Please ensure that the video card driver supports OpenGL version 1.5 or higher and up to date.

SketchUp's performance relies heavily the graphics card driver and it's ability to support OpenGL 1.5 or higher. Historically, people have seen problems with ATI Radeon cards and Intel based cards with SketchUp. We don't recommend using these graphics cards with SketchUp at this time.

@quantum said:

The tail does not wag the dog.

exactly, neither the os nor the gpu does wag the dog but the apps required to use.

@quantum said:

Ignoring users' legitimate problems with SketchUp seems not to be very clever to me.

legitimate outside the system reqs? obviously not!

@quantum said:

Do you think I am trapped or imprisoned by the time I've invested learning SketchUp?

no, I think that your are trapped by the missing of insight which reminds to a n00b.

@quantum said:

...it has been necessary to make Registry modifications to get SketchUp to run in even the most rudimentary way.

no registry tweaks are required to run SU w/o any probs in the environment it is made and released for, any usage outside the system reqs is obviously at own risk.

@quantum said:

why you are irrationally defending this.

of course, who else...

@quantum said:

it's time for me to look for a more Linux-based solution.

drop a note when found, am keen to see the replacement tail

that was easy,
Norbert

@quantum said:

9300 IGP

a shared/integrated graphics solution is surely fine for office/browsing/videos and maybe gaming but never a good choice for using in connection with a OpenGL based 3D modeler.

@quantum said:

which is not only OpenGL,

required is a video driver supporting the full OpenGL stack which doesn't mean OpenGL=yes/no... further information concerning this can be obtained from here.

@quantum said:

but fully hardware accelerated for mpeg2 and h.264

irrelevant for SU, great for youtube

@quantum said:

I am not switching any of my systems to Winduhs for any reason. ... But I am very doubtful now about SU's reliability for future work;...

ignoring system reqs. with claiming problems related to the violation of them at the same time seems not to be very clever to me.

anyway, if the usage of a specific os is more important than the compliance with the tools and apps required for getting the job done (= private use), just ignore this too.

good luck,
Norbert

@quantum said:

In XP when I start it, I get 'OpenGL failed'.

update your video driver resp. use a video crard which is fully OpenGL compatible (i.e. no shared video solutions as e.g. the Intel GMA series etc.).

@quantum said:

Microsoft doesn't even trust a file from its own site?!

MS probably doesn't trust a file which could not be verified in connection with Wine... which would not seem very surprisingly to me.

@quantum said:

Looks like the time I spent learning Sketchup was wasted.

Looks like the time you've spent trying to run SU on a system not conform to the official system requirements is wasted.

htc,
Norbert

neuer Termin: ~ Mitte September

Sprachen: French, Italian, German, Spanish, Japanese

Norbert

@nohd said:

too bad i only use PlugIns that are free to download.

ah, private use.

btw, which plug-in?

N.

@nohd said:

... modeling irregular shapes ...

for modeling freeform surfacres I would use an appropriate tool, e.g. a NURBS surface based modeler as e.g. ViaCAD/Shark, especially if you need exact and editable faces (or volumes).

hth,
Norbert

@japettler said:

...I would like to think that being a relatively new computer with 3d capability ...

there is less to no OpenGL based 3D capability with shared low-end GPUs as e.g. the Intel GMA series etc.

if you wanna make a living from your SU results, drop this notebook and buy something really capable with at least a dedicated nVidia GeForce video subsystem or better a nVidia Quadro FX in connection with Win XP Pro x32 as e.g. the Dell XPS or Precision series (w/ XP Downgrade).

Still avoid Vista and/or ATI Radeons because of weak OGL performance.

hth,
Norbert

@patrickpr said:

Es hat Nummer 1 gereicht dann hats aufgehört!

natürlich unter Verlust der OpenGL 3D-Beschleunigung deiner Grafikkarten GPU, bei grösseren Modellen wird's naturgemäss zäh werden müssen...

... daher ggf. probieren, den Treiber der Grafikkarte (welche?) zu aktualisieren... ausser natürlich man verwendet Vista und/oder eine 'gesharte' LowEnd Grafikkarte.

hth,
Norbert

official Release Date : 22.10.2009

N.

@honoluludesktop said:

...but are you saying that WinLine is a Vista driver for my plotters and printers?

yes, if your printers/plotters are compatible to the hpgl1 or hpgl2/hprtl industry standard.

see list of supported devices on WL website or check the user manuals of your devices for supported formats.

@honoluludesktop said:

...and as far as I can tell, WinLine is a program that takes a HPGL ascii file, and converts it into a data stream that a raster printer can print.

no, WL is a standard windows printer driver, not a standalone application.

@honoluludesktop said:

I didn't see a claim that WinLine would function in place of a printer driver.

no, nobody has claimed that WL can drive every device on the world... which would be ridicolous in doing so.

as far as I understood you/we are are talking from large format printers aka plotters.

@honoluludesktop said:

...I expect that all PC manufactures that install the OS will be able to meet these requirements.

this is not my concern, my remark was targeted to users of existing systems or recent buyers which might want upgrade too.

@honoluludesktop said:

Thanks for your suggestion, but we can't afford to purchase a Vista Computer just to see if WinLine can see the printers, and plotters:-)

just install the trial on your e.g. WXP or 2003 system for your evaluation purposes.

compatibility with your output devices depends on the standards mentioned above and not on the underlying os, i.e. if working under XP it's pretty the same under Vista.

btw, a printer driver generally doesn't 'see' the hardware but does only convert the print data delivered from the application via the Windows GDI to the format required (e.g. PCL, HP-GL, HP-RTL, PostScript etc.), the communication w/ the output device is done by the spooler which is part of the Windows printing sub system only.

hth,
Norbert

@honoluludesktop said:

In other words, if Vista can not see my printer, then no program running in Vista will be able to see it.

of course, after installing an appropriate printer driver as e.g. WinLINE Vista and every other supported OS will 'know' your printer, i.e. every application which can print can output to the device... besides using a plen plotter and using a raster editor.

Installing the WL trial version might help to determine if printing/ploting works with your hpgl or hgp2/hprtl compatible device.

@honoluludesktop said:

Hopefully Win7 with VXP, and USB support will.

as I understodd, the virtual XP mode is supported only if a CPU with intel VT or AMD V support is used... which is e.g. not valid for the Intel Core 2 Quad Q8x00 series.

hth,
Norbert

@honoluludesktop said:

... after investing thousands on large format plotters, and printers that, finding no driver for Vista created hesitations in migrating.

for large format printers resp. pen and raster plotters supporting hpgl or hpgl/2 you may want check WinLINE which is avail for Win 2000/XP/2003/Vista x32/x64.

hth,
Norbert

@al hart said:

...other possibilities?

Windoze:

• Paint.NET
• PhotoFiltre
• FastStone Tools
• PhotoShop Express Online
• Paint Shop Pro

hth,
Norbert

@gaieus said:

Then I don't know why they are selling for the same price (in Euros) all over the EU countries.

I have explained this already above.

N.

@gaieus said:

That would mean that the CAT is the same ll over in the EU while it is not. Some places it's about the half of other places.

that would not mean that the VAT is the same all over Europe but that the poster quoterd is comparing the German gross rpicing w/ the US net pricing.

@gaieus said:

This more seems to be the case when a manufacturer "still thinks" that the USD and EUR are the same...

Most manufacturers are not adjusting list prices (communicated to resellers which are communication prices to inquiries via the web or by a price list) based on a daily U$<->€ exchange rate but do incorporate a buffer for exchange rate fluctuations as well as for additional cost of a local reseller providing e.g. localized software/documentation or a local tech. support in native tongue or local payment conditions etc.

of course, nothing consumers and/or cheapies are thinking of.

htc,
Norbert

@prisoner said:

But $500 is quite hefty. Know what they want for it here in Germany? €593,81 Dont know which currentcy converter they are using.

probably the VAT converter = 499 Euros plus 19% Value Added Tax

... U$ 499 is net not gross.

I would also not compare street prices of a mass product with list prices of a specialized tool.

after all, it depends on productivity (= saved time) which is probably much more worth than the initial cost of this tool, especially in relation with CAx systems for 10,000 or 20,000 U$.

jm2cs,
Norbert