I've had my own business for over six years. The ups are great...But the downs Really STINK...try going 4 months without a single dime come in...that'll make you think twice about your decision.

Can you make a living doing 3d modeling...is like saying can you make a living selling cookies, pulling teeth, (insert any ocupation here) in the end it has more to do with who you are and what you are willing to take in return for your services.

You will need to be a salesman, a draftsman, a 3d modeler, a business man, oh someone has to go buy printer cartridges and since it's just you...guess what you get to do. Oh and when a client calls and says can you change this and this and this and I need it by tomorrow morning...you get to tell your wife that even though its her birthday you will need to work tonight....anyway the list will go on and on....the succes or failure of your business depends on so many other factors other than whether or not you can produce quality 3d models. ask yourself this can I eat beans and rice for three monnths to save money when times are slow. Can I put aside money when I have extra to save up for the hard times. Can I work 24 hours a day for 3 days to meet a deadline and only bill for 20 hours even though it took me 60 hours. Will I have the diligence to get up every day and go to work and be productive....your at home and the tv the refirigerator, your bed, the back yard, the trash,....you will need the diligence to say to your self that this is work time and even though I'm home I need to focus on work right now. I can't tell you how many times I've gone up stairs for lunch and 3 hours later realize that I just lost 3 hours of work time during the day that I will need to make up at night...OH and when you are your own boss your work day goes from 8 hours a day to 24/7/365...Clients will call you and if you want to keep them happy you will take thier calls...

OK...I'll get off the soap box now...one last thing...If you have even the slighetest thought of starting your own business take my advice. DO IT...you will never regret doing it you may find that you do have what it takes. You will forever regret not doing it, but you will never regret doing it. Even if it is not as sucessful as you had hoped.

I ordered this web template:

http://www.dynamicfactory.us/xmlswfdemo ... index.html

to use as my company website. I am in the process of customizing it.

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(www.philrader.com)

For the most part editing the XML file is easy which is referenced by the flash file. It's very user friendly....except I want to have a contact form and not just the contact information as text. The flash file has a contact form in it

404 Not Found

(www.philrader.com)

but it is not what appears when you click the "contact" button. Just text from the XML file comes in.

OK now the question is there a user here that is familiar with XML and Flash that I could buy you a beer or something to just edit the flash/XML file for me so that the Flash contact form come up when the contact button is pressed.

You can email me directly prader (at) philrader (dot) com

thanks in advance

well better late than never...

Congratulations Craig!...now get to work.

You guys won't kick me out will you. hehe

Edit:

OK don't post messages after a few beers...

To try to Clarify... This post was meant to be a funny one IE: Hey I want to go to the new Pro forum and help but I Cant get in... However my inability to make text convey the humor prevented that.

Apparently there was a post of mine that contained text that was a red flag. I assume that it was an old text maybe when the transfer happened if Google forum software searches the content of all posts for inappropiate text.

Anyway it was not my intention to re-ignite the firestorm.

It is good though to have this forum as well to have conversations just like this one. In the end that's the goal for Sketchup users to converse with each other.

Susan thanks for the compliment...however I am just a regular guy.

Phil Rader Architect, LTD.

(www.philrader.com)

I started out in drafting class in high school. My teacher would leave an open desk for me because I would skip my other classes and come to drafting class. I loved to draw detailed drawings. I started out in college in engineering but soon fell in love with architecture studio. I was a studio rat I lived in studio. had a bed, refrigerator, coffee maker. Once I was evicted from my apartment because the landlord though I had dissapeared. Since I never stayed in my apartment I let the electricity, gass, and phone get turned off. I only went there to take cold showers...After graduation I moved to NYC and started working for a small firm. After about 6 years in NYC I mooved to Minneapolis. I worked for two firms for nearly 4 years before starting my own practice 6 years ago. I've had my own firm for 6 years now just my,myself,and I...It's amazing how little money you need when you work at home and don't eat out for lunch, fill up the cars gass tank, buy usless but socially appropiate cloths, etc. I've loved working for my self but do miss the comradere of other people.

I dis-like that you must select a section plane by clicking on it becuse if you ahve a large model and are in close you have no way of determining whether or not you have the section plane selected. Often I must zoom out completely until i can see the grip arrows on the section plane in order to visually verify that the section plane I want is in fact selected. For instance you might have two section planes only 6 inches apart from each other and it's difficult to actually select which one you are selecting from a far back distance.

I agree windows live particularly with the birds eye views is a great resorce.

I also use a website

http://www.globeexplorer.com to download higher resolution aerial photographs. With Globe Explorer you can choose from multiple dates and resolutions which is nice sometimes. Some aerial images are taken from a different camera angle and thus taller buildings are still not truly flat as if taken by a camera directly above the building.

THe best part about windows live and Google is that the images age free. Globeexplorer has a fee to download high resolution images.

I remember the days of terraserver when only declassified military satellite images were available.

I wish I could remember what book I looked at in college. It was a large really large book showing hand drawn illustrations done in the late 1800's early 1900's. These illustrations were most likely done with a ruling pen. The illustrations were black and white perspective drawings of for example the interior of a wondrously rich baroque theater. every seat had a person in it and there were actors on stage. The drawings were like perspective sections so you could also see people in other smaller rooms surrounding the main theater. We were looking at the illustrations with a photography lupe (8x) enlargement. We started to notice some odd things a wine bottle here and there. broken wine glasses and then as we looked closer we noticed naked people in the audience and couples in the back rooms doing what couples in back rooms would do.

Mind you these drawings were dripping with detail they must have taken months to draw. Our conclusion was that in order to stave off a mental breakdown the illustrators would insert humorous characters to break up the monotony of drawing boring people. I really do wish I could remember what that book was I'd like to have another look at it since it was a hoot. And knowing that this went on so many years ago was reassuring considering that we had some of the same ideas. One of the mechanical engineers who did work for a firm I worked at in New York always drew a beer can somewhere in his drawings. A simple can with two x's on it. It became an office treat when we got drawings from him to be the first one to find his beer can.

We are nothing with out humor.

From Ray

Would you agree that because so many users have become so proficient at modeling, we've lost the "sketch" part of what the software was really intended to do?<<<

No it's still there it's just getting hidden by all the other features.

Would you also agree that unless an individual considers the process of learning itself to be its own form of fun (and thus its own reward), he or she will not find much joy in exploring and discovering what a wonderful toy like SU will allow you to do?<<<

Yes. The trip is as important as the destination. Too often in todays day and age people want instant gratification. The world is full or remorse because we satisfy all of or needs and desires is such a short time. I think we should have people do a drawing with a ruling pen

then they will understand the importance of patience.

Finally, would you agree that the design process is its own form of play?<<

The quality of the design process will show through in the quality of the design. They are one and the same.

On a side note I remember reading a book in college about creativity by David Bohm. It's been a long time now but essential one of the points I remember was that human beings have an inherited need to be secure. To express your own creativity is in one way a risk. you are exposing an inner part of yourself for public viewing. in order to maintain our security people will hold on to their thoughts and inner creative side out of fear that their ideas will be rejected. so its safer to just go along with someone else's idea.

Essentially the risk takers are the ones that become the new paradigm that those that keep their own creative ideas inside will follow...until a new person steps out of their safe zone and expresses a new idea that becomes adopted as the new way.

anyway your use of the word "PLAY" reminded me of this book because if I remember correctly Bohm states that ONLY if we allow ourselves to PLAY will we allow our creative side to take risks and create something that is better and more pleasing than if we restrict ourselves to socially acceptable "business" behavior.

think about how happy children are to run through a room with a plastic airplane imagining all the twists and turns and zooming over things and landing an performing maneuvers that a real plane is incapable of doing. In this state of PLAY anything is possible.

At some point though we (society) discourages PLAY and tries to beat it out of you...
"bobby STOP playing with your food...Bobby Stop playing with your shirt...Bobby Stop playing arround...Bobby you will need to learn to sit still if you ever want to get a job.

Etc. Etc. We all smile in total amazement when a 2 year old is playing but by the time they are teenager we discourag play and want them to become worker drones.

GET SERIOUS...This is Serious ...yadda yadda yadda

I wish as a society we could hold on to the importance and wonderful new ideas that can come from playing arround.

OK Now I better get serious and get back to work...hehe.

Congratulations and welcome to fatherhood. Kiss all your hobbies good buy for a while. Looks like you have a wonderful and healthy baby. Enjoy every moment because it goes fast.

How many of us have removed a bolt with a pair of vise grips...

my father told me if it does not work get a bigger hammer...

Ray is right there are a multitude of ways to do any one specific task.

Dan I'm only here for a minute so I'll answer you post after the kids are asleep when I have more time.

Susan you are right students interest level will wain if you run into glitches during the lesson. But heck the resolving the glitches is part of the learning process and part of the fun...for me at least.

yeah but it's usually not until you reach the end and get close to a deadline that SU feels the need to remind you about your BAD modeling habit. It seems that the program works fine and dandy and lets you add all sorts of extraneous polygons with no apparent degradation in performance until about an hour before the deadline...then SU seems to BOG down from the weight of all your pursuits in nano modeling. By this time though it's too late to delete them and you have to sweat bullets to finish up on time. Telling yourself that in the future you will be more efficient in your modeling habits...We lie to ourselves about our addictions all the time.

Daniel...spot on.

I remember once at a job I had one of the interns came to me and asked how to divide a line into 13 equal parts in AutoCAD....I ask that person well how would you do it in the real world...no response...

Yes I know there is the divide command and it will do the work for you but there is no excuse not to know how to do it in the real world.

Knowledge is power and what you want to happen is to exert your power (knowledge) into the computer. If you are continually searching for the button to press that does something for you than you are at the mercy of the computer.

I remember the good old days of SU when it was a very basic but powerful 3d modeling software. It still is but I'm afraid the added bells and whistles may blur the simplistic approach to modeling.

Oh and my discussion above would work for any group..."OK class today lets design a desk, a shopping cart, a coat, a thingamajig...anything. The important part is the trip down discovery lane questions and answers getting more knowledge about what the "thing" is and what it should look like, how it should function etc. Once the conceptual discovery process is complete than the conceptual modeling can begin. its not a straight path during the modeling phase you will continually refine your concept as the visual aid of the model helps to confirm or reject the validity of the concept.

So Susan if you can just get your students to remember to use their brain when they model and not to become too reliant on the software.

I remember a professor I had at the University of Kansas who talked about "savvy" being "savvy" is something you are born with. Creativity is a similar concept some people have a lot of it some not as much. but creativity and conceptual are not the same thing. this same professor had us do exercises in conceptual thinking. he would be the narrator and pose questions and the first person in the class who had an answer and felt compelled to raise their hand and expose their ideas to the class could do just that. So for example he would start out with the big picture and move to towards the smaller details.

here is a brief question and answer session.

Teacher "T" Student "Sx" x=student number I'll change it to simulate multiple students answering the questions

t-Ok class today lets design something together...

t-where is our site located?
s1-in the mountains of the Himalaya's
t- good so our site is severley sloped and cold...
t- what are we designing
s2- a ski lodge
t- great so we'll need a large room and many smaller rooms and maybe a kitchen and swimming pool how many floors will our lodge have?
s3 three floors
t- super than that can take advantage of the slope and have entrances on each level, is the roof flat or sloped and if it's sloped
s1 sloped with a steep pitch because of the snow.
t- great how big is the roof overhang
s-4 large to create an outdoor terrace for good weather and protection from snow.
.....yadda...yadda...yadda...

as you can see the teacher is directing the conversation and asking specific questions that allow the students to answer with their own creative thoughts but those thoughts need to have limits based on where you are in the conversation. as you continue to narrow the questions down to what is the siding material and color and are there exposed beams or is there a fire place is the fireplace visible on the exterior etc.

so you as the teacher could act as the discussion facilitator to quickly poll your students about a particular design challenge say a 10 minute discussion and then you could spend the rest of the class modeling the results of the dynamic discussion. IE you would model a mountain and then randomly isolate a parcel on land on that mountain, then determine a random footprint of the building and stamp it into the site and then push pull a 3d box up from that foot print and draw a few lines and create a steep roof and push pull that roof out to create a large overhang and then add some exposed beams and an exposed fire place and paint on some siding or stone or what ever material was suggested and them add some windows ...etc...etc. you are going to model for the students what they created in their answers to your questions. each class will be different because each set of students will have different answers. one project may be located on an island or on the head of a stick pin or floating in outer space... the possibilities are endless but you will demonstrate to the students that Sketchup can be a tool for them to express their creativity and their conceptual ideas. by controlling the situation with specific targeted questions you can make sure that you have a plausible "site,and building type" to model.

you will find that there are students that just can't hold their ideas back and at times you can open it up for discussion and you'll hear "its vinyle siding from one student and another student will chime in NO its stone...and you can mediate...what kind of stone...limestone...limestone really there going to ship limestone all the way up to the mountain...when the surrounding area is chalk full of trees...

so you will be illustrating how sketchup will allow them to explore thier creativity and at the same time show them that sketchup is only as creative as they are.

sketchup is just a tool that craftspersons uses in the process of completing their craft. in that regard being good at sketchup is not the end goal being good at your craft is the end goal. In order to be good at your craft you need to be competent with the tools you use. As an architect my craft is about designing objects to be built like houses for instance. In order to validate the design and to illustrate it's validity we produce drawings. Since the objects we are designing are 3 dimensional producing 3 dimensional drawings is only natural. sketchup allows me to communicate my ideas to others in a natural and effortless way. So my goal is not to be the best modeler but to use the tool (SU) to help me better communicate the design.

People pay me to produce 3d models to help them communicate and I've heard that the models and presentations I've created have been effective.

I'm sure if I gave one of my models to a good modeler they could find a thousand things I've done that make the model "BAD" like modeling insanely minute details that will never be seen and only add to the file size and complexity. But for me if the details are not there than the images seem too unreal. my "BAD" modeling habits do get me in trouble at times when I'm on a deadline and SU starts to BOG down. I often mentally kick myself for over modeling. but old habits die hard. I was an over drawer too. I remember the look of astonishment on my co workers face when he realized that i had drawn the threads on the screws in a mill work section drawing for a cabinet.

I remember being absolutely giddy when SU 3 came out and we could have individual surfaces have transparency....wohoo no more exporting two views one with all surfaces opaque and one with all surfaces transparent in order to get an exterior view where you could see through the windows but not the walls...I remember staying up all night "playing" with the software like a kid at Christmas.

I have sky turned on for rendering purposes but I always change the color to a deeper blue the out of the box color is too muted for my taste. But while I am modeling I rarely have the sky turned on. I find it mentally more convenient to think about the model as a physical object that I am holding in my hands much like a real physical model that I am building with my hands. In general that is what I like so much about SU using it is very close to really physically "making" a scale model. So in that regard I would not have a sky at my desk while making a physical scale model I might take my physical scale model outside and photograph it with a sky background to make it look more real but while actually crafting the model real or computer I like to think about it more along the lines of a scale model or object that I intend to create presentation images out of at a later date.

I had a somewhat less enthralling similar experience. I did a 3d model and renderings for a commercial complex, It was going to be for health care providers but the top corner unit was going to be for the developer. I was doing the work as a consultant for the architect. I showed a man and woman on the balcony of the corner unit. The architect told me that I had to change the woman who was a brunette to a blond because the developer did not want his wife to think he was cheating on him.

Hmm do people really think this way?

anyway the brunette got the ax and a bubbly blond took her rightful place on the balcony.

Now as for what goes on in reality what I don't know can't hurt me.

Nice rendering though. Maybe you should have put the cat on the back of the woman you know claws dug in and make the woman blurry like she is running as fast as she can to get the furball off her back....hehe Far be it from me to heed the warning not to add gasoline to a fire..

cool have a look at photographs taken by Bernd and Hilla Becher it could be inspirational for you. Your model and image reminds me of their photography, If you imagine it in Black and White that is.

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(www.masters-of-fine-art-photography.com)

I guess it will have an overflow drain at the top.

I have not fully developed the concept since it's most likely a project that will not be built as conceived.

http://www.rain-barrel.net/rain-catcher-water-barrels.html

http://www.rain-barrel.net/rain-catcher-water-barrels.html

That's what I had in mind but I guess I could think bigger and design an underground cisstern