@vigge50 said:

I found wimdows 7 for just 769:-(821:-less)
I change the intel core i7 3770k to i7 3770 and save 360:-
i take away the watercooler but i think a going to buy some fans insted
So now i am down on just 6 151:- and have money over for a better graphic card

Yes, but once again... i would not buy such a cheap noname psu and risk an unstable system or a hardware damage. And the 12v rail should have at least 30A for the video card (or two separated 12v rails with 30A+ combined).
I don't know if overclocking would be an option for you in the future... then the K-version would be the better choice.

@chris fullmer said:

Actually, to me, I don't see the major downside yet.

Maybe If you have a CPU for $500 soldered on a mainboard for $150 and the mainboard gets broken...?!?

But i don't think that this new "concept" will be realized in the high end and server market... no way! Two $2000 Xeons bundled with a $400 mainboard?
For the mainstream PC market... yes, i think we will see it.

A sorry... swedish i was led to the danish HP site as i searched for the model number

Yes, this looks much better i would say...

• The board is good. But very high prices for the processor and the board

• The Intel 330 is ok, i think. The ones i listed would be a bit better as 256GB model
  Best price/performance ratio at the moment has Samsung 830.
  http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-330-review-benchmark,3190-7.html

• 1600MHz RAM would be only slightly better (but only maybe 2%) but should be almost in the same price range.

• The watercooler is nice but not needed if you want to save money - and it could be even more quiet with a slow speed big air cooler.

• is this windows 7 Pro or Home? This looks like the Retail version. There should be a system builder version for about half this price.

• The PSU is still a bit weak, for this config without dedicated video card it's enough, but if you add a card that pulls ~150W (GTX 560 TI). PSUs normally have the best efficiancy at 50-60% power draw. And i'm not sure about the quality and efficiancy of this codegen PSU.

• Case fans are not allways needed. The airflow of the CPU cooler (and the PSU) can be enough. But then it would be better if the video card fan blows the heat out on the back.

both are not really optimal...
but the second one would be slightly better - if you change the video card ...and the RAM

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/dk/da/ho/WF06b/12454-12454-3329740-64546-64546-5187028-5263245.html?dnr=1

• i7 2600 = "last" gen i7 - 3770 would be the better choice
• H61 = "old" chipset
• VERY weak PSU, only 300W - absolutely no headroom for a better videocard
• only 8GB RAM and only 2 memory slots, no upgrade possible

more than 900€? Is this true?!?
This is really too much for these specs...

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c03418598&lang=en&cc=us&taskId=101&contentType=SupportFAQ&prodSeriesId=5258496&prodTypeId=12454

• i7 3770 = OK

• Z75 = OEM chipset? i don't know - but better than the other one if it is derived from the Z77 chip

• weak PSU (430W)

• only 6GB RAM (WTF... why 6?!? this is a Dual Channel chipset - should be 4, 8 or 16GB!)

• both have very slow video cards, but the nvidia with a noisy fan on it - should be possible as passive card with a decent airflow in the case. But a stronger nvidia card would be better.

• both have NO SSD! I would add a 256GB SSD - 128GB would be ok too, but will have a ~20% slower write performance.

• i would say at least 16GB RAM

What is your budget?
Why HP? Looks very expensive and unflexible if i look at the config options...
(16GB RAM = +$240 , 256GB SSD = +$300 )

I think you should look for a local shop and let them build a custom config for you if you can't do it yourself

• i7 3770K ~280€ (3,5GHz and could be overclocked) or 3770 (3,4GHz, no overclocking possible) ~265€
• a good cooler, maybe Thermalright True Spirit 120 Rev. A ~25€ (or HR-2 Macho or Macho 120)
• Z77 mainboard with 4 RAM slots, maybe ASRock Z77 Pro3 ~80€ (cheap and good)
• 2x8GB RAM (Corsair or Kingston DDR3-1600) ~60€
• a good 256GB SSD, Samsung 830 or Crucial M4 ~165€ (or 128GB ~90€)
• 1TB (?) HDD 7200UPM ~60€
• nvidia video card, maybe GTX 560TI 2GB ~ 220€
• DVD Writer ~15€
• a good ~500W PSU (at least 80+ bronze efficiancy with quiet fan), maybe Seasonic S12 520W ~60€
• Midi case with 120mm or 140mm fans (bigger = slower = more quiet) ~40€
• Windows 7 Pro x64 System builder (OEM) ~100€
• assembling and installation ~50-100€

3770K = ~1200€ or 8952 DKK

i would take a Samsung 830 with 256GB instead of the Vertex 3. (the 256GB model has a higher write performance)
OCZ has had horrible failure rates (RMA) in the last years and especially with the vertex 3.

I don't know Ultra PSUs, but they are only relabeling other brands ( http://www.tomshardware.de/Netzteil-OEM-Hersteller,testberichte-240604-10.html ). I would say better take a good brand like seasonic.

I would not buy a videocard with less than 2GB RAM today. There are versions of the 560 TI with 2GB.

You need a CPU cooler.

do you have only maxwell for sketchup or the full package?
With the full version you can export as mxs from max and then use it as mxs reference in sketchup.
Or import the sketchup scene in max, place your objects and merge the two scenes in studio.

@jbacus said:

... that it isn't core modeling operations which are multithreaded. Instead, it is "rendering" kinds of processes and other peripheral operations which can be accelerated in this way. Multithreading just isn't a technological panacea for CAD applications.

As i said before, even if it is not "core modeling operations" which are multithreaded, but "only" saving, exporting, exploding, etc. it would be a huge benefit in some cases... no need to have a multithreaded Line-tool.

@gaieus said:

So they skip 2004 versions?! It must be pretty advanced then!

@andybot said:

...I don't know of any major CAD or graphics app that uses multiple cores for its basic functionality - so I don't see that multi-core is any sort of answer...

From the Graphisoft page (http://www.archicadwiki.com/Multiprocessing)

@unknownuser said:

Is ArchiCAD multi-threaded?
Until ArchiCAD 12, ArchiCAD was not multi-threaded as a whole. Now ArchiCAD takes advantage of multiple cores / processors in various computationally intensive areas such as:
Generation of Sections and Elevations,
3D generation, loading and saving,
Drawing updates,
Placing PDF files as drawing (visual feedback when positioning the drawing),
LightWorks rendering ,
File saving with data compressing option,
Managing Autosave.
And In addition, ArchiCAD takes better advantage of the graphics processor in your display adapter.

How many cores can ArchiCAD use?
ArchiCAD can use as many cores as you have, but do not expect double speed with twice as much cores. Since breaking down tasks to threads and keeping threads in sync takes time, more cores do not always speed up processes. In general, the longer a process takes, the more multiprocessing helps. It is definitely worthwhile to have a dual-core machine, and if you are working on large projects, 4 cores are even better. In some cases 8 cores are faster than 4 cores, but you will not see a difference as big as going from two to four.

When will ArchiCAD be fully multi-threaded?
The multithreading in ArchiCAD brings a dramatic increase in performance over previous versions, but ArchiCAD will not be a fully multi-threaded application at any time soon. This is partly because re-writing the ArchiCAD code to support multi-threading is a huge task, and there are areas where it would not cause a dramatic performance increase. Graphisoft continues to focus on those areas where multi-threading brings the most benefit to our users.

Now you know one...

@thomthom said:

Do I detect sarcasm? If so - can you show to anything that says otherwise? That doubling the size of the data types magically improves processing time?

no sarcasm. I know that switching from 32bit to 64bit will normally not increase speed (and maybe even be slower)

@thomthom said:

...64bit isn't a speed performance solution.

yes, sure...

@thomthom said:

"Rendering animation" - as in exporting from SketchUp?

yes, rendering an animation directly in sketchup (exporting images)

@sketch3d.de said:

...Core i7-3740QM

if he wants to build a notebook... yes.

@sketch3d.de said:

This is just not true, most apps available are still 32-bit because they simply do not benefit from accessing more than 2GB RAM

interesting... and this is the reason why sketchup is now large adress aware... right?!?

yes, my microsoft word never needs more than 2GB...

sorry, but this is the most stupid statement in this whole thread... yes, there will always be apps that don't benefit from more processing power or more RAM because they don't need it. And even sketchup will not benefit from more speed if you're modeling only a cube! But i can tell you, that working on a 200MB+ model in sketchup is not really funny... (i'm not speaking about high res textures, but geometry! textures are already all the lowest low res dummys) 2-3 min auto saving time is really a joke for 200MB... the only thing you can do is to disable the autosave.

And you will wish for 64bit if you have to split the geometry into parts to be able to export it to the renderer or if you have to restart sketchup after every single export, because sketchup doesn't fully clear the memory after export and you run out of memory on every second or third export... (it's better now than before but still there)

And it IS just true! because this is the way processing power will evolve in the next years... the future is parallel. Single core performance improvements got more and more limited in the last years (sandy to ivy was ~5% and Haswell will get ~10% - great!) and if you want more speed you have to use the other 7, 11, 15, 23 or 31 idling threads of your system!

And if it may be hard to implement multicore support for single modeling operations, i really don't get it why it isn't already used at least for rendering animations, background saving or running ruby scripts in a second process.

If i render an animation i have to split the sequence in 5 or 6 parts and start the rendering on 6 different sketchup instances. Is it really that complicated to do this automatically from one instance?!?

Nice system...

600W is more than enough for this setup - i think it will be around ~400W under load. I suggested a ~700W PSU because the efficiency typically is the best around 50-60% load, and because it should have at least 30A on the 12v rail for the geforce and for overclocking. But this should be only a problem if the PSU has two or more separated 12v rails. I don't know how this one is build, but newer PSUs have combined 12v power rails with 70-80A combined. So they are more flexible.
The other point with a server could be that maybe the fan is quite noisy because it is only optimized for power and not noise. But you'll see (hear).

ASRock should be fine, i'm running my farm on ASRocks (i7 970 and 2600K/2700K) - i don't know the Extreme 4. You should read some reviews for more info.

I'm no expert in GPU rendering, i'm only using CPU. But i think, mixing nvidia and amd would be no good idea, even if it seems to work. But maybe i'm wrong.

@thomthom said:

The modelling engine will generally be single-core - like SketchUp.

for now... yes

@aerilius said:

In short, not all softwares can be made multi-core (no 3d modeller is multicore).

i think they will have to be made supporting multicore in the future since this will be the way processor power will evolve... i seems that there will be no real speed gains in the near future for single thread performance

overclocking the 2700K should be save depending on the cooler and if you watch the temps and you don't go above 1,3-1,35v vcore.
For the geforce i'm not sure if overclocking would be a good choice because they are made for gaming and not full load over longer time, like with rendering. Quadros and teslas which are made for rendering are clocked even slower than geforce. There have been posts on some forums about dead geforce. Not sure if they where overclocked or stock. But maybe with a good cooling and not so heavy clocking it should be ok. (If you watch the temperature)
Overclocking the ram will give you nothing for rendering and 3d. Just take a standart 1600 MHz with CL9 or CL10. Maybe kingston or corsair low profile (!) to have enough space for the cooler.

For the psu i would take a Seasonic M12II or X-Series, maybe with 650-750W.
(i have 9 seasonic PSUs running at the moment - 8 in overclocked machines - and never had any problems with them.)

if you don't overdo it in terms of voltage and temperature you will never notice a degradation of lifespan. Just stay within the save voltages (like below 1,3-1,35v vcore) and maybe 65-70°C core temp.
It is possible that this will shorten the lifespan too... but maybe from 15 years to 12 or 10... so you will never be able to experience this

I would say this looks like a nice system...

and if you plan to overclock it... 4,2-4,3GHz should be possible with this cooler - for higher clocks at a reasonable noise level you would need water.

...one more point:
it seems that the difference in noise level isn't that big for the better GTX 660 cards.
But there are some who are more quiet, like one from Asus or Gigabyte

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@unknownuser said:

Yes. Twenty-one percent VAT.

we have 19% here in germany so this can't be the difference...

I think this looks better now.

Here are some reviews of the cooler
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviewdb/Cooling/Air/Thermalright/
(Rev.A supports socket 2011)

I can't say much about Coolermaster PSUs or the case, I don't know who is building the PSU for them http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/psu-manufacturer-oem,2729-5.html. But i think it should be ok.

Regarding the graphics card the second config would be much better i think. The GTX 650 is even slower than a GTX 560. http://ht4u.net/reviews/2012/nvidia_geforce_gtx_650_gt_640_evga_test/index40.php
So i would say either the GTX 660 or 660 TI, or an "old" GTX 560, 560 TI (2GB), 570 TI (2,5GB) - depending on the price. And watch out for noisy coolers - i don't know the evga.

Kingston RAM is good, but i can't say how it is running on this board. But normally they should be compatible.

I don't know where you are storing your data. Maybe you would need an additional HDD of 1-2TB for it.
I have only two samsung 830 in my machine and no HDD, one with 256GB and one with 512GB. The system is fully watercooled and quiet so i didn't want to have any HDDs installed. I use a file server to store the data and the SSDs for System and temporary project files (one 100GB partition for Win7 and the rest for data).

I don't know if you can buy OEM (system builder) software in Belgium, but a OEM Win 7 x64 Pro would be much cheaper (~120€). You don't need the retail package. What you get is only useless microsoft support. And the Pro version is normally enough. Ultimate adds only (useless) stuff like Bitlocker or EFS.