@gaieus said:
@jgb said:
...Is SU-8 out now?
Yeah, all the good stuff (solids particularly) is $$$$$
At least V8-Pro is cheaper than V7-Pro was at introduction.
Still a major chunk of change for what is a retired old farts hobby.
But, I may give V8-Pro some very serious consideration.
I will most likely upload V8-Free for now, as I am truly fed up with V6's shortcomings, most of which are NOT FIXED in V8 still.
SU is a 3D drafting app, but in 2D presentation.
How's about a visual 3D presentation, using anaglyph red/green glasses.
Display only, you may not be able to draw in this mode.
Postby tfdesign on Tue, 28 Sep 2010 7:10 am
solo wrote:Easy solution, export model to iClone and covert to 3D.
As seen at Basecamp.
But doesn't that still use that awful 1950's-like red and blue glasses thingie? I really dislike trying to make 3D using that. In my opinion, it's so tacky. And in many ways, although clever, so is the 3D effect, so popular with many new films lately. I went to see Toy Story 3 recently, and because of the print, the film was really dark- I could hardly see it! The technology isn't really here yet, but it is interesting to see the progress that it is making. I'm looking forward to what Unity does with "3D" (if any).
Postby jgb on Tue, 28 Sep 2010 8:54 am
solo wrote:Easy solution, export model to iClone and covert to 3D.
As seen at Basecamp.
That would take away the ability to draw/edit then immediately review. In fact it would be best if SU could draw IN visual 3D, but that technology may be some distance away yet.
As for using Anaglyph (red/green) glasses, there are other colors that can be used, but yes, they all suffer from the "crappy factor". Probably the best way (and there are several methods) is to use the video interlacing coupled with synchronous glasses, but that is a hardware solution. I suggested a relatively simple software solution.
There is also a new technology that is being introduced for consumer TV that needs no eye ware at all. It remains to be seen (no pun intended) how well this will actually work. I suspect it uses a linear lensatic filter overlay so each eye sees a separate view. I've seen that before and it does not work well at longer viewing distances of over a few feet. Maybe ideal for monitors, iffy for home theaters.
@bmike said:
You can nest layers?
Or are you nesting groups / components that have other groups / components within them on separate layers?
You cannot truly nest layers in SU, unless you use a plugin layer manager. I have but don't use a plugin manager as it is not tied into SU's layer manager, forcing me to maintain separate lists.
So, I number all my layers to maintain hierarchical order.
Ie: 1.00, 1.10, 1.15, 2.0.........
And yes, I nest groups/comps and assign each to specific layers within the layer hierarchy.
As long as all raw geometry is always on layer 0, I can control the visibility with some finesse.
@tfdesign said:
My wish for 9 is that the mouse zooming is just as effective over blank space as it is over a space that contains vector information (solid). It drives me crazy sometimes trying to zoom like mad, and just not to get very far.
Anyone else suffer from this? (Or has TIG made a plugin to remedy the situation?)
I've been bitching about this for 3 years now and nary a step has been taken in V7, V8 and probably in V15 to correct it. This hyperzoom drives me nuts when I am in close and working on lines rather than faces. It ain't easy to keep the cursor on a line while wheeling in or out or panning. Then it's "To the moon, Alice!" and the air around me turns blue.
There is an easy fix to the zoom s/w module. While panning/zooming ON an object is immediately followed by a pan/zoom OFF the same object but still "nearby"; MAINTAIN THE SAME PAN/ZOOM RATE. The pan/zoom rate hold is released if the cursor is placed over any other object, or is moved some distance away from the held object, or (say) 2 seconds pass between zoom actions.
But the SU devel.team seems far more consumed with new bells and whistles than fixing problems bitched about by solid users.
@tfdesign said:
Oh yes, fix the bl**dy layers management!! Why is it that within a grouped object, several entities can co-exist on different layers all at the same time? This is utterly crazy! I can understand for whole objects, but single little things? It's silly. Perhaps I'm missing something here?
You ARE missing something here. I use the ability to assign multiple objects (groups or comps) to separate layers all within a grouping on a top level. That way I can control the visibility of any one object, or ALL the objects at once by turning on/off any specific layer. As long as all the raw geometry of any object remains on layer 0, this is an effective tool.
For example; my big airplane project has an internal elevator that uses a pair of telescoping control arms rather than rails to get around some immovable structures. In order to see the various positions and fix any interferences, I have a top layer assigned to the overall elevator (see layer list below). That way I can turn on or off the entire elevator as needed. Then I have a sub layer at the top, a few interim layers for transitional positions and a layer at the bottom. Now I can see the elevator descend/ascend at each transition position, comparatively or independently, or in a scene animation.
Layer management......
6.00 Elevator (note: All layers below are within this master group)
6.01___At Top (note: Each transition group contains 1 copy of all the elevators components)
6.02___Trans 1
6.03___Trans 2
:
:
:
6.09___Trans 9
6.10___At Bottom
6.20 Elevator box (note: There are 10 copies of these comps positioned at their respective transition points and within a transition group)
6.30 Control Arms
6.40 Drive Mechanism
etc......
This may seem cumbersome, and at times it really is, but since SU does not have a native animation capability (joint linkage, fine control and positioning) this is the only workable simple solution I can come up with.
@solo said:
Easy solution, export model to iClone and covert to 3D.
As seen at Basecamp.
That would take away the ability to draw/edit then immediately review. In fact it would be best if SU could draw IN visual 3D, but that technology may be some distance away yet.
As for using Anaglyph (red/green) glasses, there are other colors that can be used, but yes, they all suffer from the "crappy factor". Probably the best way (and there are several methods) is to use the video interlacing coupled with synchronous glasses, but that is a hardware solution. I suggested a relatively simple software solution.
There is also a new technology that is being introduced for consumer TV that needs no eye ware at all. It remains to be seen (no pun intended) how well this will actually work. I suspect it uses a linear lensatic filter overlay so each eye sees a separate view. I've seen that before and it does not work well at longer viewing distances of over a few feet. Maybe ideal for monitors, iffy for home theaters.
@mitcorb said:
If you have not already done so, why not post this in the Sketchup9 Wishlist thread?
I didn't know there was an SU-9 wishlist topic, nor did I know that SU-8 is not the "next" SU. Is SU-8 out now?
I've encountered a problem (not a bug) with Entity Info. It is onscreen all the time, and I use it extensively. I also use layers a lot, having over 100 in some models. I create a lot of nested layers for multiple copies of an entity set in place, on its own layer, to track changes and to show different configurations, within a nesting set under a blanket layer.
The problem is when I edit an entity that is buried under 2 or more layers, the layer info is not shown in Entity Info. Only the top layer will show but not when I edit the entity. It is easy to lose track of which entity copy I am working on. Up to now the only way to know what layer I am actually editing in is to toggle the layers in the set till SU says I can't turn it off.
So, if Entity Info could always display the objects true layer while in edit mode, and the one above as well; because 99% of the time all geometry is on layer 0, but the objects group or comp is on some named layer within some other layer. I've learned the hard way to control layer visibility so that is not a problem.
SU is a 3D drafting app, but in 2D presentation.
How's about a visual 3D presentation, using anaglyph red/green glasses.
Display only, you may not be able to draw in this mode.
This can be done with any PC monitor and video card. SU needs to be able to have 2 simultaneous camera angles (view ports) set about 3-6+ inches apart. That's the hard part. One camera sees red, the other green. The model is drawn in SU in a normal fashion, then with a mouse click into 3D-Vision mode, the model is viewed in red and green lines by the 2 cameras. Now you can see the model in a "true" 3D wearing the glasses. The pan & zoom functions must still be functional in 3D-Vision mode, or the real effect will be lost.
ps: I'm placing this on the V9 suggestions topic. Best to follow it there.
Thanks
@honoluludesktop said:
I would consider resetting my system to a point when everything was functioning OK.
That did work.... Big Thanks
Went back 2 days to be sure.
@sketch3d.de said:
@jgb said:
Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library
Runtime errortry if re-installing the Microsoft VC++ 2008 SP1 Redist. Package helps.
hth,
Norbert
Thanks, but it did not work.
Gonna try reverting, if I can figure out how. It's been 3 years since I did it last.
@gaieus said:
@jgb said:
Making Outliner a paid upgrade was also a reason.
Hi Joel,
You must have misunderstood something. The Outliner is still a feature of the free version.
I believe you, but last year I was told in the old forum that it was no longer part of SU 7.0 free. Only in Pro, like dynamic Components.
My $0.02 (Canadian)
I have avoided upgrading SU 6.1 (free) to 7.1 (free) because I felt it did not offer enough upgrade to warrant the hassle of upgrading. Making Outliner a paid upgrade was also a reason.
I may reconsider moving up to V8.
3 of my wish list would be.....
A better editing facility for materials, especially within the Materials section.
You need to pull a material into a drawing before you can edit it, even to change the color slightly, or change the color/texture name. Then you need to export that change out to another list to use it later. You cannot even change the orientation of a texture (vert/horiz).
Then I just found out that a large scale change to an object/component with a texture changes the scale of the texture, totally screwing up the look of it beside other same textured unscaled objects, unless I reset scale definition, which I do not always want to do.
Then I would also want to be able to sort colors/textures in the entity info box, and also be able to purge unused colors/textures. This is important where I have been playing with shades of the same color/texture before getting it right. Now I cannot get rid of the unwanted and unused variations.
Better and expanded use of control keys for shortcuts. Right now only the shift, ctrl and alt keys are used by shortcuts in combo with alpha keys. Expand them with the tab key and the special function keys for the Windows and Mac k/b's. It would be very useful to be able to define the axis (red,blue&green) from the left side of the k/b as well as the arrow keys.
Make full use of the multi-buttoned mouse. Most mice these days have horiz scroll wheels. SU ignores them. My Logitech mouse has a total of 11 buttons and scroll wheel functions. SU only sees 5 of them.
Yesterday I exited SU 6.1 in a normal fashion. Then I turned off the PC.
Today, even after I do a reboot, when SU starts up and is at the point of setting up the toolbars I get the following popup box.
Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library
Runtime error
Program:
This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
Please contact the applications support team for more information
[OK]
When I click [OK] SU terminates. 
Any ideas????
Just browsing through posts.
If you have too much detail or hidden stuff on top, try moving the WHOLE model UP by 3 ft, then with a front or side view, L-R select the LOWER part of the model and move it DOWN 3 feet. Then you can go in and fix any bits that either didn't move or accidentally moved. This avoids moving & fixing the far more complex upper part of the model.
Ships and planes share the same SU design challenges.
One tip: Best to work on a 1/2 hull as a component, then when done copy it abeam, flip it and move them together. Don't explode or merge them. Now any changes to one side is reflected on the other.
If you are dealing with very small differences, and zoom in closer, you will encounter the "clipping" phenomena, where the model starts to vanish as you get closer. This is annoying but normal. Took me over a year of frustration to find out how to avoid that.
To stop clipping, click on the camera drop-down menu and turn perspective off. You will now be able to get in very very close. However, clipping is reversed and the model starts to vanish as you zoom out, and it will look somewhat distorted. Then just turn perspective back on.
You can put the Perspective Icon toolbar on by clicking on View Toolbars Options. The "Camera Perspective" button is 2nd from the right.
Also, if you are very close to the object when you turn Perspective off, the view will suddenly zoom far out, and you can lose sight of the object. So, to minimize that, select the object, or something close by before you switch off, and now you have a target to easily relocate.
@unknownuser said:
[edit] oh, and you can draw about a gazillion helixes in the time it took joel to type that up
Hey 
Just because I 2 finger type doesn't mean it took me that long. Only 30 minutes. Enough time for a million, maybe, but not a gazillion for sure. Even on a fast PC.
And it's "helices".... so there! 
Believe me, fairings will take about as long to do as the airplane itself.
I do use the arc tool a lot, but with reduced sides. Then I triangulate each side to form the fairing faces. The triangulation needs to be consistently done, and avoid hubs or spiders where possible. Expect that many triangles will have to be done over from opposing corners, or even split up into smaller triangles to get a smoother surface.
SU does not always form a face when you make a triangle. You have to be very careful and draw lines from endpoints only. If a face still refuses to form, delete all 3 lines and do it over. And, as an added irritation, face reversal happens often.
Then you have to tweak the fairings at many of the intersections with the copy/move tool, working one axis at a time, with constant rotation and pan/zoom to eye the smoothness.
Make all the lines soft/smooth (entity info or ctrl+eraser tool). Avoid hidden lines, except at edges that fair into other surfaces. Keep hidden lines visible at all times except to check the job overall.
Plan to spend some tedious time doing a fair job. (pun intended)
There is no tool or Ruby I know of that can create a spiral or spring, or I would be using it now, instead of this way I developed. It is simple but can get tedious, and you need the Pipe-along-path Ruby installed. Do not use the [follow-me] tool as it distorts the ends.
1: Determine the overall diameter, length and number of turns in the spiral, lets say a spring 2 inches diam X 10 in. long with 20 turns.
2: Define the diameter of the wire, say .1 inch
3: Calculate the diam and length of the centerline of the wire, in this case 1.9 in diam X 9.9 in long (same 20 turns)
4: Caclculate the turn pitch (space between turns), in this case, .495 inch (9.9 in / 20 turns)
5: In SU draw a circle in space .95 in radius. Delete the face.
NOTE: Keep the number of side facets as low as practicable. SU defaults to 24 sides. Lets use 12 sides in this example.
If you are new to SU, these are the steps to do that. Select the [circle] tool and immediately (before you click the center point) type 12S and press <enter>, click the center point and start a circle, then type .95 <enter>. SU will draw a 12 sided 1.9 in diameter circle.
6: Select and copy the perimeter 12 times to a distance of .495 inch. You need 13 circles .0413 in apart.
Select the perimeter, then the [copy/move] tool. Click on the circle, press [ctrl] and move the copy along the springs centerline axis out a bit, type .495 <enter> to move the copy .495 in away, then type 12/ <enter> to make 12 copies within the space. Total of 13 circles.
7: Make the 13 circles a group. Not a component.
8: Now the tedious part. DO NOT EDIT THE GROUP. At a vertex endpoint on the first circle (#1), draw a single line to the next vertex endpoint in the next circle (#2)in the direction you want. Make very sure you draw between endpoints. Do this in turn from point #2 to circle #3, etc. till you make 13 line segments in a spiral, not 12. You now have 1 complete turn of the wires centerline.
9: Delete the circle group, but not the lines you just drew. Ensure the lines are contiguous by selecting the first segment and double-clicking on it. All 13 lines should highlight. If not, delete the first non-highlighted line and redraw it between endpoints.
10: With all 13 segments highlighted, open the P-A-P tool (in Plugins) and define the outside diameter of the wire (.1 in), inside diam = 0 and the number of sides, again keep it low, say 8 or 12, and then press <enter>. You now have a group of 1 turn of your spring.
11: Select the turn, select the [copy/move] tool, click on the start end of the turn, click [ctrl] then the axis key and drag the copy till it snaps to the tail end of the first turn. Now type 19X <enter> to complete your 20 turn spring.
12: You can either leave it as 20 groups, or if you want copies of it, explode all 20 groups, then make the whole spring a component. You may also notice the overall dimensions are not exact, which is due to SU's internal level of accuracy. You can adjust the overall length with the scale tool, but not too much as to distort the wire diameter shape. If high accuracy is important, measure the error and redraw with the necessary corrections.
It takes about 5 minutes to make a spring. Size doesn't matter, here anyway!
