Hi

Chris, should there be any concern or precautions taken should I still choose to leave a bunghole and fill it later. I will require a pipe in my center to help create the bunghole?

Gaieus, I completely forgot about looking through the attachment you posted when i requested how to print my model to scale. Thanks for showing me the steps. That is exactly the way i pictured it my head. Now, just for me to add my pipe and then redo the model, print it to scale and get this "Baby" started.

Look forward to hearing from you guys
Regards
D0me

Hi Gaieus

Yes, the middle pipe around which the dome will be built.

Hi Gaieus

I'm starting to redo my model and was wondering if you have any tips on how to implement my pipe into the model.

Thanks

Hi Chris

Nice find. Thanks for the link.
Thanks exactly what I am looking to do. One difference is I will pour in my cement to fill the bunghole rather than how they have done it by having the keystone already made.

Thanks

Hi Chris

Nice sketching

Can you upload the skp of those images? Would love to get a better view of things.

Guys, I'm also starting to redo the model but I am going to use the advice Gaieus gave and start with the pipe first.
Any tips on how I should go about doing so, like e.g the domes first then pipe or the other way around???

Thanks
Regards
D0me

Hi Chris

With regards to the spinner, I'm still curious to know what sort of contraption can be made to fit on my wood and the pipe (2" Diameter)?

This contraption should be able to stay in a stationary point on the pipe and spin.

I've thought up a few ideas but had to disgard them because if I have a contraption that will be tightened in place and at the specific height on the pipe, it won't spin if you know what I mean. And if I leave it loose it won't stay at the height on the pipe I wish for it to stay.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Regards
D0me

@chrisglasier said:

@chrisglasier said:

And take the mystery out of the topic? Notice I haven't asked why the d0me is in four segments. Another mystery yet to be revealed - eh!

@d0me said:

The Refractory dome will be made in 4 Pieces. Because Refractory material is a quick hardening material, and this is a first time for me, I will cast 1 piece at a time. After all 4 pieces are casted, I will join them together. Because each piece will be casted with the pipe in place, this will automatically create the bunghole in the centre. I will just fill the centre with refractory cement [concrete] to close it of thus creating the "Keystone".

Ah ha!

As the angle at the top is now 90 degrees the acute angle problem has gone away and you don't need the bunghole for that reason. I think you can screed off the sand and lower domes by eye using lines drawn on the form. So you don't need the complication of spinner and so on.

Just make another screeder for the topmost layer with a curve the same as the largest diameter and 2" longer than the quadrant base.

Set up your panel assembly (form), place and compact the sand then carefully lay up the concrete layers evenly not to disturb the substrate using the hawk and steel trowel. Hold the top screeder horizontally to rule off the surplus concrete pressing against the side pieces going from bottom to top if casting vertically *. Of course fill any depressions and rule again. Just as the concrete is beginning to set use a wood float to dress the surface. After that you can use the steel trowel but be careful not to bring too much cement/water slurry up to the surface. (Try it out on the hidden surfaces).

• You might consider making a cradle to sit your form horizontally. Then you could use a slightly wetter mix.

@racer123246 said:

I was confused at first and now I'm more confused.

Just wait for D0me to post the WIP photos. All will be clear.

Hi Chris

I've been reading your post over and over, trying to grip the important advice you have given. I am finding it a bit confusing so I'll take a few steps back.

Firstly, you mention that the angle at the top is now 90 degrees instead of being acute. Would you mind elaborating on you've come to thing conclusion. Sorry, my understanding on architecture jargon is limited to none.

I was always under the impression that a screeder and spinner was the same thing. I was obviously mistaken. Where can I see images of how the 2 work in their own way.

I more or less understand the rest of your advice and it will become even more clearer when I get more clarity on the above points.

As for pics on WIP, most definately. This post will not be complete without them.

Thanks
Regards
D0me

@gaieus said:

@d0me said:

@gaieus said:

Why didn't you start with this??

Really don't know why I'd didn't as I should have started with this first.

No, that was meant for Chris. He clarified it to me with the "oculus" term.

Then as he explained that you will fill the missing sand back anyway (and this way fix the height difference), my "quick and dirty" solution has become deprecated anyway.

Of course, we can still learn a few tricks if you are inclined - even if you do not need them for your current project.

I'm leaning towards redoing this model and since I now know the pipe will be part of it, how do you suggest I implement it? In the begining before sketching my dome pieces or after the dome pieces are sketched?

@gaieus said:

Didn't you like my 'quick and dirty' solution? You know - to scale up everything by that bit. Oh well - you would have just a little bit thicker walls for your dome

Sorry Gaieus, I must have misunderstood you. In a previous post you mentioned this solution but didn't say how to do it. You did say you were rushing over to the bank and we'll figure something out when you get back.
Thicker walls should be fine but the important thing for me is to learn more about the power of SU.

@chrisglasier said:

When you have taken out the spinner pipe (it needs to be pipe not a pole in order to rotate on the spigot), fill the void with sand and dome the top. Pour the bung. Your height will be same as before

After my Sand Dome, I will add to it the Refractory Dome with the pipe still in place. The Refractory dome will be made in 4 Pieces. Because Refractory material is a quick hardening material, and this is a first time for me, I will cast 1 piece at a time. After all 4 pieces are casted, I will join them together. Because each piece will be casted with the pipe in place, this will automatically create the bunghole in the centre. I will just fill the centre with refractory cement to close it of thus creating the "Keystone".
I may be wrong but with the way I plan on doing things, the height of my inner refractory dome will decrease a little.

@gaieus said:

Why didn't you start with this??

Really don't know why I'd didn't as I should have started with this first. Its not too late to do so. Any advice to make sure I do it right especially the height.

@chrisglasier said:

And what's this got to do with anything:

Chris, I guess the picture attached is what should be used as my spinner. I went to my Hardware store today and explained to the salesman what I require and how I will use it. Unfortunately he couldn't think of anything to supply me with that could help me create a spinner.
Also regarding the pipe, any pipe you recommend?
Lastly, how large of a diameter should my bunghole be and this will be the same diameter of my pipe.

Thanks
Regards
D0me

Hi Guys

Thanks so much for the replies.

Chris, I hear what you're saying and will surely implement the given advice wherever I can. I may have access to a Plotter but if not then I will Sketch the drawing using my dimensions. Because this is a first time for me, both Sketching and Building/Masonry, I will explore different methods and use the most accurate and not necessarily the most easiest. As a comparison, I will also print the model on A4 or larger paper and see where it leads to from there.

"Kick Off?" My planned date is Next Weekend. I have planned other dates before but it never went according to plan but this time I am a little more confident. I am actually of to the hardware store today to try and source material I will require.

Gaieus: Thanks for the step by step on how to print this model to scale. Always look forward to your tutorials.

Regarding the plugin you mentioned to sort out the ugly cut, where can I download it in the mean time so I can start playing around?

Did you get a chance to figure out how we going to resolve the problem with my Dome Height after creating the bung hole/bevel?

Thanks again
Regards
D0me

@chrisglasier said:

The transition from model to construction data should not be like this. I would like some time to explain. This is an important part of my work. Can you give some time - like tomorrow or the next day?

Sure Chris. I'd love to hear your advice on how the transition should be done.
Your advice is always welcomed and I look forward to hearing it.

Don't keep me in suspense for too long. I'm really anxious to compare your advice with the way I thought it should be done.

Take care
Regards
D0me

Hi Guys

Chris, thanks for the explanation using images. Understand it much better now. I’ll definitely keep those tips in mind.

Gaieus
Good luck with sorting your financial issues. They are the worst thing to resolve.
Whenever you can assist will be perfectly fine with me. No Rush.

I thought, while we are trying to resolve this situation, we can start thinking about how to get this model printed to scale and more so, how we going to draw this model in simple 2D lines so I can easily make my guides. If there is need to redo my model, this shouldn’t be an issue as I am very familiar with how to do it in a short space of time thanks to you.

My explanations as usual don’t seem to make much sense but hope the images do. If you need me to clarify anything, let me know.

Thanks

Hi Guys

Gaieus, the reason for the bevel in my dome is as per advice from Chrisglasier and after pondering over his advice a few posts back, i realized that this will strengthen my dome even more.
Regarding point 1, you are right. After construction, the missing material will no longer be there. Should I modify my model in such a way that it accommodates for any material that will be missing (e.g Pole, Screeder, etc).

Chris, I'm a little confused with regards to your last post. You mentioned that I was comparing 2 different points on the arch. Is it possible to show me where I should mark the correct points to compare on My Model attached on previous posts both before and after adding the bunghole?
Any tips on how I should add the bevel to the Bunghole?
Lastly, how should I attach a knife to the spinner? May I ask if it's OK for you to maybe illustrate it on a picture or better yet on my model so I get a better understanding?

Thanks
Regards
D0me

Hi Gaieus

The pole is used for 2 reasons.

1. A Screeder (Wood Attached to a spinner) will be attached to the pole and used as my guideline when building the Domes.
2. It will be used to create a Bevel at the top of the Dome and I guess this is the reason why my Dome lost a bit of height.

Yesterday, I began redoing the Model as an exercise to see how long it takes me and surprisingly I did up to this point in about an hour which is an accomplishment in itself for me.

Thanks
Regards
D0me

Hi Gaieus

I have started creating my 3" Diameter Cylinder in the middle of my domes and so far it’s going well. However I have few queries.

I have attached a picture of my model and specifically the Second Last and Last domes. I have pointed out the height of both these domes before and after the Cylindrical Pole intersected these dome. As can be seen, the last dome lost 0.4” in height now making it 11.6” instead of 12” and the second last dome also lost approx. 0.4” in height, now making it 12.6”, after the pole was intersected through both the domes.

I cant think of any way in which I can intersect the domes with the pole and still retain the original heights, except by redoing the entire model and accommodating for the Cylindrical Pole intersection.
Do you know of anyway this can be done and if not, I will probably redo the entire model but before I go ahead and do so, how do I ensure that my domes now will be high enough to accommodate the intersection of the pole and still retain the original height of which I require e.g Refractory dome should be 13” high.

Secondly, its time for me to take this model a step further and start using what I have here to make what I require. Basically for a start, I need to Print My Model to Scale. I have a basic idea of what I require but I don’t know if it makes much sense the way I want it. I don’t know whether to start giving you my requirements just yet or should I wait till we get some clarity on the issue above in case this model needs to be redone.

Thanks
Regards
D0me

Dome X 5 - Arch Lines Done + Groups Created.skp

Thanks for pointing that out.

I actually used the erase to hide that dividing line.

I did the following as you advised.

1. I select "View Hidden Geomatry"
2. I then selected that dividing line and unhid it
3. Lastly I right clicked the line and selected soften.

My Model is attached. Have I done the soften correctly?

Thanks
Regards
D0me

Dome X 5 - Arch Lines Done + Groups Created.skp

Hi Gaieus
Thanks for investigating and assisting in resolving my problem.

After my previous post and just before reading your reply with the solution, I decided to take one more look at the model to try and see if I can figure out whats causing these problems with the last 2 domes.

@unknownuser said:

and there, as the width of the entrance and the innermost dome are exactly the same

I also picked this up when looking over the model. It then struck me that this could be the major cause in my last two dome, not intersecting properly. So I decided to take a few steps back. I had a backup of my model just after all my dome pieces were created and before creating the Arch Lines for the entrance. Instead of a 3" wall thickness for my tunnel, I chose a 1" thickness. I then went about following your tutorial and steps to make the tunnel. After creating the tunnel and intersecting all the Dome pieces, everything worked out perfectly. The problem was definitely my tunnel dimensions and specifically my wall thickness which made my tunnel exactly the same width as my second last dome.

All your teaching and the hard work and effort you put into tutoring me helped me diagnose the fault myself and I cant begin to explain how good it feels. Thanks Gaieus for bringing me so far along.

I've attached my model. Please can you have a look and see if everything is OK.

Now I am going to start the cylinder in the middle of my dome to create the bevel at the top.

Kind Regards
D0me

Dome X 5 - Arch Lines Done + Groups Created.skp

Hi Gai

I've pulled back the tunnel and then intersected. After that I cleaned up the opening but still something didn't seem right. I continued cleaning and drew back any broken lines. I then entered the tunnel and intersected to get the face for the 4th dome piece. I copied the face, undid the intersection. I entered the fourth dome and pasted the face in place.
Attached is what I ended up with. Definitely not looking right. I had to have gone wrong somewhere?

With regards to the last dome (Sand Dome), what solution can you propose for me?

Thanks
Regards
D0me

Dome X 5 - 4th Dome Problem.skp

Hi Gaieus
Neat trick. Worked like a charm.

Now I am at the 4th dome and this new trick you taught me doesn’t seem to be working as it did for the previous domes.

This is what I’ve done so far.

I hid the previous three domes and the last dome found below the 4th dome. I then intersected the 4th dome and something just didn’t look right but anyways I still proceeded with the cleanup. After the cleanup, I intersected my tunnel so I could create the face and then copy it to close the face of the 4th dome.

In the picture attached, you can see that this dome face didn’t close of as neatly as the others and left some portion of the face open as pointed out using the red arrows. Also, will I use the same solution to this problem on the last and final Dome which is labeled Sand Dome?

Lastly, with the previous dome, I had to draw in small lines to complete broken lines that were left after intersecting the tunnel to create the face. Just wanted to check if that’s ok as everything seems to look OK.

I’ve attached a model just after completing the 3rd dome / before starting the 4th dome. I have also attached my current model.

Thanks
Regards
D0me

Dome X 5 - Entrance Just Started.skp

Dome X 5 - 3rd Dome Entrance Cleaned & Face Closed.skp

Hi Gai

I don’t know how I went about uploading the wrong model. Apologies for that, I have so many backups, that I may have incorrectly sent the wrong one.

@unknownuser said:

So I cannot advise on the model but tried to comment on the image. Of course, you cannot close a face with any entity that is outside of the editing context you are in (i.e. you are working with half of the entrance- how do you expect to close a face with the other half???)

I didn’t realize I was outside the editing context of the entity I wish to close the face of. Did I go wrong along the way that has caused this?

I tried to follow your instructions from the image whereby you advised to close the face using lines and then use the eraser tool to delete the seams. I failed to succeed.

So I decided to take a few steps back. I have a backup of my model where the individual dome pieces were still grouped. I left it that way as and didn’t explode the group like how I have done previously.

I then created the first part of my arch entrance.

After that, I used the offset tool to create the second part (3") of my arch entrance. I then interestected my entrance and then cleaned up what was required. Now I am again at the stage where I cannot close the face. I’ve attached the model and this time I made sure to double check it is the same one as the images I have uploaded. Can you guide me using the model I uploaded?

Thanks for being patient with me. Much appreciated
Regards
D0me

Dome X 5 - Entrance Just Started.skp