@thomthom said:

I have personally spend a lot of time myself scanning through code of new developers looking for problematic code and recommending amendments.

I am not suggesting that there shouldn't be documented guidelines for developers to read an hopefully learn from and follow. And they should be encouraged to do so.

My point is that the process I read on how to get a plugin on EW is onerous and stifling. As a SketchUp user who is looking for a solution to a problem, ask me if I care that the developer was a software engineer who produced eloquent code and used best practices. We are talking about scripts, not applications.

What I want is a solution, and that is most likely to come from someone with knowledge of an area, who can also write a script. The key ingredient is someone who has expertise in an area who can provide me a solution. If his or her script sometimes steps on someone else's code and I have to disable that code for a period of time, so be it. It's not convenient, and I will likely inform him or her of the problem. But at least I have a solution.

Ruby itself was developed with much the same goal as SketchUp; eloquently easy to learn and use by anyone. Stifle that and you stifle SketchUp. A process for getting plugins to users, written only by professional software engineers following best practices, is both stifling and lacks creative solutions in an area of interest. An top that off with the fact that it is a corporation like Trimble guarding the gate, instead of a user/developer community like SCF. That a loose/loose proposition.

@alan fraser said:

On the other hand, despite its ability to give developers a great shop window to display their wares...complete with extensive Description, links to websites and blogs, Comment section etc. it does not offer the intensive back and forth dialogue between developers and users that is possible here on SCF...the ability to beta or fine-tune a plugin to perfection.
The two facilities complement each other; they are not in competition. In fact, if anything, via its links, I suspect the Extension warehouse may well drive more users to SCF than ever before.

I think Alan is correct in his prediction. EW belongs to Trimble and users will not get the ear of Trimble like they can the SCF store and the SCF forum. It's a corporate solution and corporations don't listen or take part in discussions. And they certainly don't help third party developers with problems.

Further, I just looked at the process for getting a plugin on EW. It is quite onerous. The success of the SketchUp Ruby API was that users of SketchUp could quickly fill a functionality gap by writing some code. They didn't need to be a professional software engineer. They could then share that code with other users, almost always for free, and those users could use it at their own risk. Yes, some poor code got into the mix. But the huge success was the creative users that provided functionality, not based on their coding expertise, but on their expertise in the area in which they work. This was a tremendous success. That creativity is now going to be stifled in favor of coding expertise unless the developer base continues to use SCF store or simply distributes their own code, each in their own way.

@adamb said:

I'm pretty happy with SketchUp 2013 also. Like Thomthom, I'm not concerned that we didn't see big changes in APIs for two reasons:

1. Dramatic changes/additions in APIs are generally a 'Bad Thing' in realworld software engineering. What you want is incremental (ideally backwardly compatible) progression. Think of it from the POV of the developers: having a new API for the latest version fo SketchUp is all fine and dandy, but you have N thousands of people out there on SketchUp 7 and 8 using your stuff. Having to develop multiple execution paths for different versions is a PITA and adds to instability.

AdamB, the key words in your statement is incremental progression. The problem is that for the last couple of releases under Trimble we saw no progression. If that keeps up Ruby will be at version 4.0 and SketchUp 1.5 & 1.6. Then you will be discussing the need for a dramatic change in the API.

Almost all applications on the market have some kind of compatibility mode, including MS products. They may be a PITA, but software engineers get paid for the work they do and coming out with a product that is incrementally further behind each release is a death notice.

All of us (or almost all of us) who visit SketchUcation do so because we love SketchUp. We don't want to see it loose its way. If you are happy with SketchUp 2013 and not concerned about the status of the API development and bug fixes, then you are someone the development team should not be listening to, because the overwhelming feedback on this release is that it is simply underwhelming. The last release that actually added something visible to the user or developer was SketchUp 7. I for one don't like the trajectory.

@chris fullmer said:

And one of those IS one the #1 requested features by ruby developers - a way integrated into SU to distribute plugins, with a built in updating feature so people know when their plugins need to be updated.

Seriously Chris? This was the number one request by developers? Was this a formal market study or are you talking about the in crowd circle of developers? I find it very hard to believe that a market study that fairly represented the base of SketchUp Ruby API developers would result in this being the #1 request. I can understand that perhaps the vocal in crowd may have wanted this feature. But having been an executive in large high tech corporations I can tell you that that kind of marketing is dangerous.

@thomthom said:

The Extension Warehouse is, as Chris says, a big thing. It's basically an app store for plugins and with an plugin/extension manager to accompany it. It's what I've been dreaming of for years! Something I've nearly tried to developed myself - but decided not so because it's such a huge task.

Ok thomthom, I understand this may be a feature you have wanted for a long time, and maybe it's a big thing. But it couldn't have taken too many software engineering resources to develop. It's basically a web page integrated into SketchUp. And the SketchUcation Plugin Store is essentially the same thing and we already had that. Further, if this is so important to the general third party developer population, and that is why it fell so high on the list, how come there is absolutely no mention of how a developer get his/her plugin into the store. No where on the SketchUp site do I see any explanation of how one goes about this.

You guys are smoking something, some feel good weed. The bottom line is this release is not a major release except in name only. Look, I am a huge SketchUp fan and have been for years. I teach SketchUp on line, in woodworking schools and in community colleges. I write plugins for woodworkers and I personally design all my furniture pieces in SketchUp. So I am not trying to come down on SketchUp or Trimble for the fun of it. I and other will get over this huge disappointment. But if the incremental value added in the 2014 release is similar to this one, SketchUp is dead. Users will vote with their feet. So if the SketchUp team is feeling good about this release they are not listening to the overwhelming feedback and they are in denial.

BTW, for 2014, you might also want to consider some long outstanding bug fixes like printing to scale.

@valerostudio said:

I really miss being able to have toolbars stack in double widths on the sidebar. I have worked this way for 7 years and now I need to get used to this new system with single columns. Ugh.

The work around it to create two custom toolbars. Put half of your icons in one and the other half in the other. Then place them both on the right or left and side by side. It works, but it is really curious to me how someone thought this was an improvement.

@slbaumgartner said:

I'll be blunt here: I suspect that the SDK rewrite had a lot more to do with improving Trimble's ability to integrate SU with their other tools than with anything the majority of current users and developers needed or wanted.

I think Steve hit the nail on the head. This release feels like it was targeted to the new owner and not the user community. Trimble now owns SketchUp, so there is nothing inherently wrong with that. But the current base of users are grossly under served. Perhaps the new Trimble base will feel better. Thought I would never say this but I miss Google already.

@chris fullmer said:

Hey Steve, those are very non-trivial improvements that you just brushed off like they were nothing'. Completely re-writing the .skp reading and writing code that SketchUp uses for its own files, making that available through the new sdk, and then ALSO providing a built in extension warehouse to make plugins instantly visible to millions of people get me excited every time I think about it!

Chris,

What percentage of extensions to SketchUp have been written using the C++ SDK versus the Ruby API? The former seems almost non-existent while the latter is ubiquitous. So why all the attention on the SDK and none on the Ruby API?

WebDialog may not be interesting to you, but to the Ruby API developers, which dominate the extension development for SketchUp, it's the only practical way to create a UI. You should be more interested.

The extension warehouse, while cool, is functionality that was covered by other means including SketchUcation. I never had a problem locating a Ruby script I needed. Again, the emphasis on this seems to this SketchUp Ruby script developer to be misplaced. Personally what has excited you does not excite me, and it seems most of the reviews on SketchUp 2013 indicate I am not in a minority.

It seems to me that the SketchUp developers are not listening to their customers anymore. I can't criticize the amount of work the development team did to get this release out or the quality of that work. But the work itself seems to be the wrong work.

I am a big fan of SketchUp and the Ruby API and I have written more than a few plugins. As far as I can tell 2013 doesn't help me. It's very disappointing.

Perhaps Trimble has a grand plan that we users do not understand. It might be good if Trimble starts communicating with us before we all jump ship.

@wyatt said:

I haven't seen any discussion regarding the cost to skip 2013 and upgrade from SketchUp Pro 8 to SketchUp Pro 2014. Will it be $95 or would one have to buy another full $590 license to skip a release cycle?

The upgrade from SketchUp Pro 8 to SketchUp Pro 2013 is $95 plus state tax.

@aerilius said:

@chiefwoodworker said:

So far Trimble gets a failing grade from me for its influence on SketchUp.

In what way does Trimble show a different influence than Google? I don't see any influence.

......

While the development team has been continuously grown at a rapid rate, I'd expect visible changes to appear through the Extension Warehouse. This is the way through which Trimble and SketchUp give you new tools.

You are correct. You don't see any [Trimble] influence. That's sad.

Interesting business model you articulated. Trimble/SketchUp introduces a major release with no incremental features and charges more for it. Adds an extension's store for hobby Rubyist's to create new features and distribute them, which has no cost to Trimble, but has the effect of SketchUp features improving. In other words, Trimble profiting on the backs of the Rubyist's.

Don't misunderstand me, I am a huge fan of SketchUp and the Ruby API. And I am ok with that model. But it seems that Trimble could at least do something for the Rubyist's, like upgrade to 1.9 or 2.0, add a Unit Test feature to the Console, allow for multiple lines of code in the console, fix some bugs that have been around forever like print to scale, and a whole host of method bugs (which may be fixed, but until I see the fix I am skeptical).

I hope you are correct that Trimble is putting in place an infrastructure that will bring great things in the future. But this major version release surely does not hint of that.

Wow! Unless there is some really great changes under the hood not obvious yet, this is really disappointing. Higher price, uglier icons, still Ruby 1.6 no improvement in Ruby console (I thought sure the Unit Test stuff would make it in there) etc. etc. etc. Let's hope they did something of value when they expose the under the hood changes. Right now, very disappointing. The one thing that is obvious is the toolbar set up. Nice, but that is a onetime thing and I could easily have lived with the old method. What I don't like about the toolbar behavior is that I can't place a vertical x 2 column on the left or right side. It forces a x 1 horizontal column. Whose brain fart was that? This has me depressed.

The cross section stuff in LayOut is nice, but it would have been better if it were integrated into the Section tool in SketchUp. I haven't checked my list of bugs yet, but I bet when I do printing to scale and printing extents still isn't fixed; a problem that has existed since the beginning of time. So far Trimble gets a failing grade from me for its influence on SketchUp.

@mics_54 said:

excellent, looking forward to it.

@unknownuser said:

After the Styrofoam I'll put on the sheathing and then the windows.

this method would seem to diminish the shear panel advantages in the continuously sheathed structure.

OK mics_54, now you are scaring me. My house is constructed that way. And with global warming we are scheduled for more hurricanes ;<)

Actually, I think this is fairly typical for homes in the northeast. The benefit is the added insulation of course. The technique is to put the Styrofoam on horizontally and the sheathing vertically. If there is any shear lose it is minimal provided you use the correct size fasteners.

However, I am an electrical engineer, not a mechanical or construction engineer, and this is a house I designed for SketchUp demonstration purposes only. I hope no one is out there actually using it for build plans. That would be a mistake (my lawyer told me to say that).

@mics_54 said:

I would like a basic tutorial on creating a model like that. I don't mean creating any geometry...I mean the scenes.

What's the weird header thing on the eave of the garage? oh nm I see its Styrofoam on the entity info

Why are all the scenes in pp?

Hi mics_54

I am actually going to do a tutorial on the strategy of component, layer and scene naming and creation for my American Woodworker Magazine blog in a month or so. You may find it there. SO check back then.

Yeah, my mistake. I am in the middle of putting the Styrofoam insulation on and have some pieces that are not on the correct layer yet. After the Styrofoam I'll put on the sheathing and then the windows. I am going to use Anderson windows because they have detailed SketchUp plugin and models that are a breeze to import. Then the siding and trim. It's a fun project. And it doesn't cost me anything to build ;<)

Only the All scene should be in Perspective - my bad. The rest actually must be in Parallel Projection because these will be scenes I will import into LayOut and create scaled build drawings.

I do the same with my furniture drawings; only one or two Perspective scenes to show a potential client and the rest are Parallel Projection which are printed out to scale for shop drawings. That way I can actually make measurements in the shop on the drawings. Can't do that with Perspective.

@wilsonbuilt78 said:

Hail Chief

Been a while since I downloaded and started using your plugin and I would like to make a few observation and suggestions if I may:

Hi Stephen,

I am so sorry for getting back to you so late with this reply. Somehow I missed you post. But the good news is that a few of your suggestions are either implemented in version 2.5 or will be in version 3.0. See my post on my blog for the release of version 2.5 at http://www.srww.com/blog/?p=1918 .

Version 3.0 will address the Other Items issue and much, much more. If you are a CutList Plus fx user and are familiar with the Raw Materials tab then you will be plased to know that all of what you see under the Raw Materials tab will be included in CutList Bridge. That is, you can enter it in CutList Bridge and keep the data with the SketchUp design file. You can export it to CutList Plus fx and/or import it from CutList Plus fx. In other words, keep the two synchronized but keep the Raw Materials data with the SKetchUp design file. This will allow for the quick costing analysis that you suggested all in SketchUp.

My bottom line goal is to keep all Raw Materials data and model parameters (attributes) with the design file (.skp) so that the user need only save one file and not more than one. Others, like .cxp can always be recreated in a flash.

Also, While I want to tightly couple CutList Bridge to CutList Plus fx, I want to provide basic functionality for SketchUp users who can't afford CutList Plus fx but leave the professional functionality to CutList Plus fx, such as sheet optimization, layouts and dxf export for cnc.

I hope to have a beta release available in mid summer and am looking for beta testers if you are interested. Just let me know via email at jpz@srww.com. Thanks,

Krisidious,

I recently designed a custom home in SketchUp just for fun. My third CutList Bridge tutorial is going to demonstrate how to produce a cut list and materials list for the house, including every stud, joist, jack, floor board lolly column etc. See the attached model.

SketchUp Custom Home Model

@krisidious said:

I used to work in a millwork shop... If I still did I would love having this.

Krisidious,

Thanks. Are you still woodworking?

I just released version 2.5 of my CutList Bridge plugin. CutList Bridge exports a CSV cut list file that can be imported into Excel, OpenOffice or CutList Plus fx. It allows the user to assign attributes such as material type (rough lumber, dimensioned lumber, sheet goods or other item), material species (maple, cherry, melamine etc.) over/under sizing, auto rotation for grain and much more. The plugin comes with a detailed user's guide (approximately 50 pages) and currently two video tutorials (a third is on the way). You can view the videos and download the plugin from my blog: http://www.srww.com/blog .

To view the tutorials look in the right column under Chief's Tutorials for CutList Bridge Tutorial. To download the plugin go to http://www.srww.com/blog/?p=1918 .

I haven't figured out how to post this plugin to the SketchUcation Store yet. But when I do I will post it. Let me know if you have any problems via email at jpz@srww.com .

Hi Folks,

In the process of trying to find a fix for black text fields when on a MAC, I discovered I inadvertently created a bug in CutList Bridge version 2.1 that renders adding to the materials list inoperable. I am really upset with myself because I didn't test all aspects of the tool before releasing it. I only tested those areas where I thought I touched with code changes. Stupid me! I have fixed this problem in release 2.2 which you can download at http://www.srww.com/blog/?p=1918 . Sorry for the screw up.

I still haven't implemented a solution for the black text fields when using CutList Bridge on a MAC with Safari release Version 5.1.7 (6534.57.2). The problem is that input fields end up with black backgrounds making it impossible to for user's to see what they are inputting. So if you have that version of Safari you will have this problem with my (and others) scripts. This started with the latest update Version 5.1.7 (6534.57.2) of Safari. I am told by experienced bloggers on this site that the combination of Mount Lion OS and the latest release of SketchUp solves this problem. In my next release I will implement a solution suggested by John Boundy that should work for older versions of MAC O/S.

@driven said:

hi Joe,
initially, the dialogs blank, but after a right-click, it looks fine on ML + SUv8M4, [but could do with .show_modal for mac's]

The generated css for the input type text is probably causing the issues on earlier combinations of OSX/SU [on the actual webdialog i.e. webkit not safari]

John, Unfortunately I just this moment saw your comment as well as Glenn's below. Yesterday I released a new version, CutList Bridge 2.2 (http://www.srww.com/blog/?p=1918) without a fix for this problem. I will implement it in the next release.

I am curious, why would MAC users benefit from a .show_model? I am not a MAC user and don't have one so I am ignorant on this point. But I thought .show_model always forced the dialog window to be on top of all other windows. Is that desirable?

Also, do you have a guess as to what I might be doing wrong that the window initially opens blank?

@ebelg2000 said:

Hi Joe,
As suggested in earlier posts, I updated to OS X Mountain Lion as well as the latest maintenance update of SketchUp Pro 8 and it appears that allows the plugin to function, although as mentioned above the extended entity dialog box is initially blank and requires a right click to have the information show. I've used the plugin briefly and it seems to be working.

Thanks,
Glenn

Hi Glen,
Thanks for the help. See my response to John's last post in this thread. Do you have an idea about the blank window? Debugging this tool without a MAC is not fun. I can use all the help I can get.

@chiefwoodworker said:

Hi Guys,

I am working on a fix for this problem for the CutList Bridge plugin. I hope to have it out today some time. Thanks.

I have tried a number of fixes suggested in this thread and a few of my own and still I am getting the black background. I'll keep trying to find a fix, but I would appreciate it if someone with a MAC running Mountain Lion, the most recent release of Safari and SketchUp maintenance release M4 could try this CutList Bridge script and let me know what results you get. I don't have a MAC to test it on. So any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.