Thanks you, Thomthom, for the script and the group for answering the inquiry! The native solid tools do not always result in a 'solid' ramaining after the operation and I was having a heck of time figuring out why. Thomthom's script revealed the solid subtract tool was leaving behind a bunch of hidden geometry that should not have been left! (using SketchUp Pro

@dtrarch said:

Check out the Adobe examples.
Looks like the 3D PDF's were all produced by SimLab plugins.
The one with dimensions was just not a SU export.

What makes you think they were produced with the Simlab plugin? I looked at several of the 3D PDF examples on the Adobe web page but see no indication they were output from the SimLab plugin. ??

Futher, Simlab Soft support told me "Units saved in 3D PDF are always converted to meters, so all measurements
will be in Meter." Yet, several of the examples I looked at have the units/scale set to inches or mili-meters.

So, it seems rev 2.4 of the SimLab plugin has another problem - it won't export the units/scale from SketchUp into the 3D PDF. Without that information in there, Acrobat Reader will pop up a dialog to ask the user what units/scale they want when you go in to measure/analysis mode - which is confusing for the reader/user.

I do hope the SimLab plugin gets improved soon...

Some SketchUp significant priority wishes off the top of my head...

1. make Layout dimension precision options match SketchUp's precision capabilities; layout looks like a very helpful application but it's not nearly as useful when it can't dimension with the same units and number of decimal places as our SketchUp models -- needs to at least do hundreths of a millimeter and thousandths of an inch, but would be best to simply match SketchUp's capabilities.

2. make the plane tools also respond to the arrow keys by forcing the plane orientation (because the point and line tools respond, I see new users [and myself] intuitively expected similar behavior from the plane tools -- and it would be very helpful!

3. make the plane tools capable of quick compound angle alignment similar to the protractor tool by holding down the left mouse button. When it was pointed out to me that the protractor can do this, I can see how it would be very helpful (and make for intuitive consistency) if all the native plane tools responded like that.

4. fix the errors in and clarify the documentation - especially for lowering frustrations of new users.

5. provide a couple of ways that the user can quickly kick or influence the inference engine to look for another inference or a specific inference in the same view vacinity - because it's really frustrating when a user (especially a newbie) frequently needs to zoom in very close or turn off a bunch of geometry just to get the engine to make the desired selection.

5a) some kind of selection filter influence for the selection tool could also be useful - sometimes (often) it's a royal pain to get a construction point selected by itself among a bunch of other geometry.

And of course, thanks, slbaumgartner for a cool tool! ...was just a bit mysterious for me since the location and doc were not posted...

Thanks Dave R; I had just found it hiding on the Tools menu. [is there a way to make it (and other ruby's) appear in a certain order on the Tools menu - like next to the native Dimensions item?]

Would help new users if the usage doc were posted and mentioned how/where to activate it...like this:

Name: draw_angle_dim

Description: Create an angle dimension with arc and text in a new group

Adds item "Angular Dimension" to the SketchUp Tools menu

Usage: - Click 3 points, going around an angle in sequence from any point

on one leg, to vertex, to any point on the other leg (clockwise or

counterclockwise doesn't matter). Be careful where you click -

this tool lets the inference engine assist you but doesn't

force you to click on existing model entities!

- The tool will draw two edges along the sides of the angle,

an arc across the angle, and a text with leader showing the

value of the angle. The two edges make it easy to realign

the group with the original angle if the entity containing it is

subsequently moved or rotated.

- The primitive elements of each dimension are gathered into a Group

named Angular Dimension (<angle>), where <angle> is the measured

angle. If you draw multiple angle dimensions, the <angle> value

will help you identify which is which (unless, of course, you have

several with the same value!).

- Each Angular Dimension drawing is packaged in an operation, so that

undo and redo treat all of the elements as a single step.

- The default radius for the arc is half the distance between

the first pick point and the vertex. The user can override

the radius by typing in the VCB at any time. If a new radius is entered

before the first point is picked for the next angle, the prior

dimension is redrawn at the new radius. The user-selected

radius remains in effect for additional angles until the

user enters a new value or selects a different tool.

- The TAB key toggles between drawing the interior (<180) angle

and drawing the exterior (>180) angle dimension. If you press tab

after an angle dimension is drawn but before picking the first

point of the next angle, the current angle dimension will be

redrawn in the new mode.

- Unlike the built-in "smart" linear dimensions in SketchUp, the

entities drawn by this tool are just graphics; they have no tie

to the original angle and will not follow it or scale if it is

modified. You can open the Group for edit, but it is not likely

you will like the results - it is easier to delete the dimension

Group and do it again.

Date: December 23, 2011

Type: Tool

Uhm, please forgive me if this is a 'duh' question, but I can't seem to get the draw_angle_dim.rb tool to work at all... Running WinXP Pro, SketchUp 8 Pro 8.0.11752.

The icons don't show up, I don't see it on the Plugins menu... how do I activate the tool??

Unfortunately, I don't know much about Ruby, but did try typing DrawAngleDimTool::IN_ICON into the Ruby Console and it does return the correct path and icon file name...and the files are there...
DrawAngleDimTool::IN_CURSOR returns 50001

Help?

Wow TIG - I've been looking all over for a tool like this for a couple weeks! [I avoided the keywords ray trace because it turns up lots of results for rendering]

I need such to tool to look at angles of reflection and reflected angles for laser beam vision systems with mirrors - because figuring the angles manually can get quite tedious! Thanks!

A few bug/issues I'm finding with V1.2 20100326 - using in SketchUp 8 Pro 8.0.11752 -
Sometimes a ray will not reflect; the second point selection was an intersection of guidelines on a plane, but it wasn't reflecting from that point until I deleted the existing guides and guidepoints in that area and re-drew them (the original guides and points were indeed on the plane).
I don't see the magenta preview ray.
Seems to use a lot of CPU resources to during point selection - noticeable lag in following the mouse, but maybe that's just the SketchUp api.

With RaySpray;
The cursor inference point indicator is not showing up.
Some of the rays do reflect -- and stop when they hit an original sprayed ray -- and original rays stop when they hit a reflected ray. (sample file attached)

Still, this is a REALLY helpful plugin! Thanks, TIG!

[to help others find these helpful plugins, some additional keywords: Reflected Angle, Reflected Ray, Angle of Reflection, Beam Reflection, Beam Reflect, Reflection Guide ]

RaySpray V1.2 erratic in SketchUp 8.0.11752

I look forward to the discussion! Will you be able to publish it in audio - podcast kind of format?

Some general thoughts that have been crossing my mind about Trimble + SketchUp/Google;

I'm wondering if Trimble and the SketchUp team are going to spend 80~95% of their allocated resources on the architecture/building/planning/mapping/GIS focus and next to nothing on the generic 3D design & manufacturing application sector (which is equally large and word is still spreading).

Personally, I really like SketchUp (because of the whole package combination) and have been promoting it among students, teachers & colleagues.

And if SketchUp continues to receive significant general development (and correction of some things that have remained new-user hindrances for a while), then I clearly see how SketchUp could become the world's most popular 3D design app -- and if the product couples tightly with Adobe for complete viewing and analysis in Acrobat Reader (it still has some significant problems), then together they could become the de facto standard for 3D idea communication and collaboration.

Of course, the mesh database has some fundamental limitations in fully connecting the engineering users, but partnering with the SpaceClaim folks might provide a great bridge since SpaceClaim's mantra is also about making powerful 3D design tools easily accessible and usable for the wider general tech population rather than only dedicated CAD users.

I'm mostly concerned that Trimble might get short-sighted and noticeably neglect the very large market outside of the architecture/planning/mapping area... Or, they might do the Autodesk thing and create 5 different product flavors that leave general users in a quandary.

For discussion consideration - significant factors which I think have contributed to SketchUp's success (not necessarily in any order):
Manifesting the mantra of making powerful 3D Design easily accessible to general computer users;
Relatively simple yet powerful User Interface (UI);
Freely available, quality, short, tutorial videos;
Excellent utilization of Google's social media network capabilities (including 3D Warehouse, groups, forums, newsletter, search engine intelligence - it all helps users get the answers they need quickly);
A highly capable free version (this is critical in winning and continuing to win over large numbers of new users - and I believe it's how Autodesk beat CadKey in establishing a majority user base back in the early 90's though CadKey was a better product with a more efficient UI);
An open-source-like attitude in providing ways for others to easily and seamlessly add features and extensions;
Having helpful, encouraging, and technically knowledgeable people monitoring and responding in the forums;
Educational promotions;
Making a product that appeals to a very wide market;
Integrating it with Google Earth.

Regarding the problem of not being able to export Dimension and Text annotations in SketchUp to the 3D PDF...

I did notice two example 3D PDF files on the Adobe.com website which do show demension and text annotations in 3D on the model in the 3D PDF. See: http://www.adobe.com/manufacturing/3dpdfsamples/3dsolutions/

Any ideas how to do this for SketchUp models? It would be extremely useful for creating product manufacturing docs, product spec docs, and product service docs.

Good CatchUp Edition, thanks.

I still wonder if Trimble and the SketchUp team are going to spend 95% of their allocated resources on the building/planning/mapping/GIS focus and next to nothing on the generic 3D design application sector.

Personally, I really like SketchUp and have been promoting it among students, teachers & collegues, and if SketchUp continues to receive significant general development (and correction of some things that have been new-user hinderances for a while), I really see how SketchUp could become the world's most popular 3D design app -- and if they couple tightly with Adobe for complete viewing and analysis in Acrobat Reader, then together they could become the defacto standard for 3D idea communication and collaboration. [must fix the problem of not being able to display dimensions in a 3D PDF]

I just hope Trimble doesn't get short-sighted and neglect the large market outside of the architecture/planning/mapping area...

Thanks TIG and Pyroluna! ...I don't know why these aren't mentioned on the SketchUp doc pages about groups & components; you'd think it would be an obvious followup concern...

I just ran into the same problem! The model is drawn to 0.001" precision but there's no matching precision in layout. I can't simply convert to metric because Layout's mm precision is limited to 0.1mm. sigh

I did post a reply on the Layout wish list; so, hopefully that will help get it fixed.

regarding the topic of dimensioning & SketchUp for engineering, I thought producing a dimensioned and annotated 3D PDF would be a great & simple way to pass the model along to collaborators and contract manufacturers

unfortunately, it seems the current 3D PDF export pluggins don't work so well for this:

The SimLab 2.4 pluggin exports only 2D plane 3D geometry; it does NOT export points, lines, guides, text, nor dimension entities - which makes it practically impossible to create a fully commented/annotated 3D model in PDF.

However, with Adobe Acrobat, you can enable the 3D PDF for analysis & measurement within the free Acrobat Reader which is pretty cool. ...but measuring is still a pain compared to having the dimensions already called out...

Argh! I just ran into the same problem! The model is drawn to 0.001" precision but there's no matching precision in layout. I can't simply convert to metric because Layout's mm precision is limited to 0.1mm. sigh

I wonder why precision got limited in Layout?

In general, Layout dimension precision options should at least match SketchUp's precision options.

I'm looking forward to having this fixed in the next version!

I'll be interested in your findings, tim; that pluggin idea you mentioned sounds very useful!

Has anyone got experience with the SimLab or other 3D PDF conversion/exporting?

I thought 3D PDF from SketchUp would be a great way to simplify drawing output and give contract manufacturers a way to view commented, 3D part designs.

However, we've run into a number of significant 'gothcha' problems with this - at least with the SimLab 2.4 pluggin...

The SimLab 2.4 pluggin exports only 2D plane 3D geometry; it does NOT export points, lines, guides, text, nor dimension entities - which makes it practically impossible to create a fully commented/annotated 3D model in PDF.

There are also some buggy problems using Acrobat Reader and I'm not sure whether they are on the SimLab side or the Adobe Acrobat Reader side:

1. Regardless of what units I draw the model in and what units I set Acrobat Reader to use, the Reader measurements always display in meters. [yes, I prefer SI, but some mfgs only build in inches]
   1a) Most of our machines have Reader 9.5.1 because Reader X (10) implemented many significant UI changes that really aren't so slick (as short-sighted as MicroSoft suddenly moving to the ribbon interface). Regardless, Reader X does have an additional option for units scale and I can set 0.0254 units = 1 in and then Reader X will show measurements in inches, but this requires manual intervention each time and is not available in earlier (and still considered current) versions of Adobe Reader.

2. Acrobat Reader also seems to be buggy between versions with the measure enable;
   2a) both Reader 9.5 and Reader X react a little differently when measure is enabled by the SimLab export configuration vs when measure/analysis is enabled via Acrobat Pro and then the file opened in Reader. When enabled in Acrobat Pro, measure options show up on the Reader toolbar and in the drop-down menu. ...it's like measure is not 'fully' enabled when done in the SimLab export.
   2b) in reader 9.5.1, the measure mode cursor is a circle with a line through it - the "Unavailable" mouse cursor, and it often obscures the inferred measuring point. This problem was not seen in Reader X. Is this a known issue?

Has anyone else encountered similar problems? Are these problems surmountable? Do other 3D PDF exporters solve these issues?

-- BrooksL

@feryum said:

PDF Creator is free. http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/

feryum,
PDF Creator does not produce 3D PDF files.

...it also can't do many things as well as Adobe Acrobat... enabling Reader commenting with Acrobat Pro is especially useful for collaboration...

I thought 3D PDF from SketchUp would be a great way to simplify drawing output and give contract manufacturers a way to view commented, 3D part designs. [good licensing deal, but would appreciate a lower cost first upgrade - or even no-charge if new release is within 9 months of purchase]

However, we've run into a number of significant 'gothcha' problems with this:

1. this pluggin exports only 2D plane 3D geometry; it does not export points, lines, guides, text, nor dimension entities - which makes it practically impossible to create a fully commented/annotated 3D model in PDF.

2. There are some buggy problems and I'm not sure whether they are on the SimLab side or the Adobe Acrobat Reader side.
   a) Regardless of what units I draw the model in and what units I set Acrobat Reader to use, the Reader measurements always display in meters. [yes, I prefer SI, but some mfgs only build in inches] Reader X does have an additional option for units scale and I can set 0.0254 units = 1 in and then Reader X will show measurements in inches, but this requires manual intervention and is not available in earlier (and still considered current) versions of Adobe Reader.
   b) Acrobat Reader also seems to be buggy between versions with the measure enable;
   b1) both Reader 9.5 and Reader X react a little differently when measure in enabled by the SimLab export vs when measure/analysis is enabled via Acrobat Pro and then opened in Reader. When enabled in Acrobat Pro, measure options show up on the Reader toolbar and in the drop-down menu.
   b2) in reader 9.5.1, the measure mode cursor is a circle with a line through it - the "Unavailable" mouse cursor, and it often obscures the inferred measuring point. Problem was not seen in Reader X. Is this a known issue?

Has anyone else encountered similar problems? Are these problems surmountable?

Adobe support is pretty much useless for non-developers in the area of 3D PDFs, but from what I've read on their pages, I get the uneasy impression that Adobe still hasn't fully settled on a preferred 3D PDF spec; though, it could be highly desirable for Acrobat Reader to also be the universal 3D content viewing and markup application...

-- BrooksL

@unknownuser said:

Jeff Hammond wrote: i guess you mean which angle to place the rotate tool's protractor at?

Yes, kind of -- first, it would be slick to be able to precisely set a piece of geometry at a compound angle (typically not parallel to any axis) in one operation, such as:

select the geometry edge, select the rotate tool, set the reference axis/plane (possibly using the arrow keys that it SHOULD respond to), then enter angle1 comma optional angle2 enter (or click to select last inference).

you could still infer or enter the first angle like normal while the act of pressing the comma "," key signifies it's a compound-angle rotate operation and a second angle will be entered or inferred.

Second and similarly, reading a compound angle measurement with the protractor tool would also be nice.

@unknownuser said:

just a quick example of what you could do if the circle tool behaved like the rotate tool…

I hadn't yet run into the need, but yes, that WOULD be convenient, consistent tool behavior - AND, applicable to all plane tools, I think, right?

-- BrooksL

@unknownuser said:

brookefox wrote: Perhaps the reason the rectangle tool doesn't work with the standard inferences is that it requires two directions rather than just one, so any single inference is not enough.

Uh, my original post referred only to setting/forcing the inferred drawing plane, not the axis for the second reference point. [trying to set bot successively would require another keystroke inbetween there that might make the sequence string too complex to be very worthwhile.

Pressing a single keystroke to quickly set the infered plane perpendicular to the x, y, or z axis would typically be much faster than orbiting to a different view to modify the default ground plane...where you might then not have a good view to acces your next point of inference to end the operation.

...also, orbiting to a different view to reference the desired ground plane and then trying to lock that reference by holding the shift key while you orbit back...that often doesn't work reliably...not to mention it's cumbersome.

Really, it would be very helpful if the arrow keys worked to force an axis or plane reference for all linear and plane tools instead of only the line, move, and tape measure.

[I just realized the arrow keys don't work for the dimension tool either if you want to measure from a point along the x, y, or z axis. ...man, consistent arrow-key axis/plane forcing functionality across all the tools would simply be worlds of convenience to have in the native tool set!]

-- BrooksL

Re: gilles;

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention the Circle tool also does not respond to a forced axis inference via the arrow keys -- and this has caused some frustration.

Not sure what you mean about wanting the Circle tool to behave like the Rotate tool...? Are you talking about being able to select and draw it at a compound angle to being with?...that would just be adding double features into a tool and it's probably less complicated to keep that function separated to the Rotate tool.

-- BrooksL