Seems we're all in agreement. I think I'm going to respond to this potential client with some terms of my own, and see how it goes. Ultimately, whilst I'd like to do the work, it won't be the end of the world if I decide to walk away from it.

Once again, thanks for all the insightful and helpful responses.

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Thanks Guys.

Agree completely with what you've said. It's what I was already thinking - but it's reassuring to have it confirmed.

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Hi.

Looking to get some advice on a contract that I may be about to enter into. I'll keep this as hypothetical as possible for obvious reasons.

Short version: I have been asked by a company to provide some design work for a project which is not yet funded. The hope is that my work, in addition to work produced by this company will be enough to secure development funding from an investor/government agency. At which point, I will be payed for the work done.

I have been asked to sign an agreement, part of which states "The consultancy payment and the production of any work is on a deferred basis. Payment will be made based on investment value of development funding."

At this point in time we have not agreed on the ammount of work required, or any hourly/total fees. The nature of the project means that this is likely to be quite open-ended and hard to define.
So, before I sign (this is a really interesting project, and one that I'd like to accept), any advice on the best way to proceed? I have always been a stong believer in 'no design work for free' - but this one has me stumped. As a final point, I'll be working under a non-disclosure agreement, which means that I will not be able to use the work produced for my own promotional/portfolio purposes. So the only tangible benefit for me would be the financial reward (if any!)

All thoughts and advice greatly appreciated.

Andy.

Hi Tina.

Lovely work as always. Hope you'll forgive me - I've 'butchered' the second image - the horizon lines in your background and foreground images were different. I've lined them up -very roughly and badly

Regardless, outstanding work, and I trust your client was delighted.

best,

Andy

Just to reinforce the above - GMAX was a bit of dead-end. It was bundled with a number of games titles, but TBH was pretty limited (I know - I tried it for a little while). Plus the fact that MAX's learning curve is probably a little steep for the casual modder. The Blender advice sounds spot-on to me - I've seem some awesome results from this free app, and it seems to handle an impressive range of file types. If you can find your way around the unusual interface, it seems to be very capable. It's on my list of things-to-try in 2009

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Anyway, a little bit of progress - distant buildings added. Still need to be blended in properly...

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Thanks all.
Remus - agree that the roof isn't very detailed, (in fact the whole model is pretty crappy) but at the size it appears in the final image, I think I'll get away with it I'll be adding some hand-painted detailing in Photoshop, just to enhance it a little bit though.

Dzine - yep, a bit like Edoras - especially the location and colour-palette. I believe the designers for LOTR based Edoras on Norse culture. The background images in my piece are actually of Pen y Fan mountain, and the surrounding area - in the Brecon Beacons, South Wales, UK. Which fortunately are about 20 minutes from where I live!

Andy.

Jackson - thanks. The key to painting snow, is to use a good photo-reference. Then use the colour-picker in photshop to sample the colours directly from the photo. The shadow colours are never quite what you expect them to be! By using sampled colours, the results are always better than judging by eye

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A big departure from my 'normal' stuff, so would welcome any feedback.

Very much a WIP at the moment - a lot of buildings to be added to the low ground on the left, and a lot more painting to do.

Anyway, first the SU:

Next the textured model in 3dsMax: (really crappy texturing, but the models are only viewed from a distance...

And the composite - the background is composed from about 8 photos which I've comp'd, with hand-painting to blend it all together.

thanks for looking,

Andy

Thanks.

Some useful stuff on adjustment layers here: http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/pselements/ss/adjustmentlayer.htm

Thanks for the link Tina - makes me realise how far I have to go

Another guy at the top of his game here: http://www.dylancolestudio.com/

plot-paris - had a quick play with CS4 - some of the 3D painting tools look very interesting. Meanwhile I'm still plodding along with version 7!

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Very nice - reminds me of the Tyrell building from Blade Runner :

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Thanks guys.

Tina: afraid its all the dreaded 'p' word Besides which, I have the attention-span of a goldfish, so prefer the 'get-stuck-in-and-learn-by-doing' approach

That said, theres a lot to learn (and admire) here http://www.conceptart.org and here http://www.mattepainting.org

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Thanks for that link - that guy has some nice work!!

Yes, for me SU is really a layout and perspective tool - by speeding up the basic stuff it frees up the time to focus on the creative aspects - which is what any good design tool should do.

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Hi Solo,

For this level of work Paintshop Pro would probably be fine. I haven't used it for a while, but the later versions seemed to have really improved the painting tools. That said, I've found Photoshop's colour-correction tools to be a big step ahead - which is really useful for integrating different images together.

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Hi Solo,

Ok - hopefully this helps :

The plane wreck took quite a bit of work: the reference photo was taken on a grey, cludy day, so all the light and shade had to be hand-painted in Photoshop.
The composition isn't quite there yet, but some human figures will be added in on the left, which I'm hoping will balance things up.

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Time for another one. Same SU model, re-rendered and re-painted....

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Nice idea for a thread CSevin . Nice to remind ourselves that the drawing is just the start of a process.

Heres one of mine - render and reality from a couple of months ago.

Andy.

Thanks Solo.

Yes, use a Wacom Bamboo tablet.

For simpler compositions I often skip the 3DSMax step, and do all the lighting and environment stuff direct in Photoshop. However for a big scene like this that would be a bit labour-intensive!

Photoshop wise, it's a pretty basic arrangement: The rendered image; a layer for hand-painting; a layer for lighting/atmospheric effects; an adjustment layer for colour curves; and adjustment layer for brightness/contrast; and an adjustment layer for colour balance.

Andy

Final result is a 2D illustration. (However this could then be projected back onto the geometry using camera mapping in 3DSMax to give a semi-3D result.)

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