Let's build a new 3D software!
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I hate to say it but FormZ 8 looks very good with some of it's new features. Worth looking into if nothing else for ideas.
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It's all about controlling topology.
There are excellent applications around, maintaining the appropriate control on topology.
Non of them is easy to use. Not a SU like UI, I mean.
Let's face it. The 3d world has it's own rules. It is a virtual reality.
We have to talk using a deferent language.
This becomes a real PITA regarding UserInterface.
A UI is the essence of the code inside an application.
This is the real problem, IMO.
When we are in Pshop, trying for a decent CMYK conversion, we have to understand the language of an offset printer or any other printer. The limitations of the inks.
When we're going for 3d printing, we have to understand how the 3dprinter works.
When we're going for video game assets, once again, we have to understand all about the art of baking nice normal maps. (and much more limitations of the game engines)
When we design for real building, concrete, wood work, etc this we should have in mind.
To create a friendly UI, what does it mean, really?Most people hate the zbrush UI. I faced the same difficulties when I started learning it.
However, start sculpting, try to handle it using a wacom only. You may think otherwise.My english don't help me much, sorry.
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Ur English is perfect.
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Hello Michalis
Have you try Verve? It's only 2D but...
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Maybe Trimble should be looking at Euclideon with a view to incorporating their technology with SketchUp?
"With a claim of “unlimited geometry,” an Australian start-up called Euclideon is getting serious industry and media attention, even though their product is not yet released. Their technology uses point-cloud data rather than polygons and, as a result, they promise digital environments that are 100,000 times more detailed than the current state of the art."
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This is more impressive!
It's a pity that is used only for wargames or violent things!
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Some engines that could be used:
@aerilius said:
this is quite innovative, but would need to rethink 3d from scratch, and design the platform from the ground up to be scalable, extendible ...
Sounds more and more like FreeCAD
http://freecadweb.org/It's just that it uses Python instead of Ruby (and I love Ruby so much. But alas... I can live with Python too.)
Another OpenSource project that I think the UI is fantastic, is QCad.
http://qcad.org/
It's extensions use ECMA Javascript. That is ok too.
But currently QCad is 2D only.
(LibreCAD is itself an implementation of Qcad.)ADD this also as an engine that could be used for the "project":
http://archimedescad.github.io/Archimedes/
It is Java based on the Eclipse platform.
This also is only 2D at this time, and very very basic,... but the 2D CAD newbie should not have issues.
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I think it might be faster to tweak FreeCAD.
It already has a right-click orbit option ("Inventer navigation",) that is assigned to the left mouse button. Add a "SketchUp navigation" that changes it to the middle button.
There already are a whole bunch of Workbenches, including an Architectural workbench. (Workbenches are UI setups that can have there own special UI features like toolbars and genre specific commands.)
Although (so far,) I have not found inferencing, it does have both object snaps, and geometric constraints. One or both can be used.
It has grid and grid snap, which SU does not have.
SO basically a team could setup a FreeCAD workbench that acts similar to SU. (Being careful not to violate their patent on Push-Pull.)
FreeCAD has solid modeling and boolean operations natively.
.. and it is free.
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Why not try Fusion 360 free for a year for Student & enthousiast ?
Only disavantage you must have Internet Connection!
It has all! Very clear Interface of the 21 Century
Subdivision, Tsplines, Nurbs, Boolean, Sizing, Historic, Physic animation, Render etc...
A very cool monster!
Perfect for a plane not yet for an aircraft carrier ! 
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yes, fusion looks very interesing! But i think more for product or mechanical design than for archviz. But there are many interesting things that could be very useful in architectural design too. Looks like they had been "inspired" by spaceclaim...
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Fusion does not look like an engine that can be tweaked, or a custom UI built upon it.
And it is AutoDesk (proprietary.) -
Dimensions can be turned on in the properties panel. Press n with cursor in 3d workspace
Pen tool equivalent is to extrude a vertex.
Hold CTRL and click for the extrusion to follow ur cursor. Or with vert selected hit e then xyz to constrain to that axis
Snapping is the magnet icon at the bottom of the workspace. You can toggle various snapping types.
Blender has also various action centres to perform translations around. Like the 3D cursor, pivot point, origin etc....
It can definitely mimic SU in terms of modeling behaviour it just needs to be activated.
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This is really interesting discussion here. I am more like a hobbyist in 3d modeling but I still feel that Sketchup has not developed too much over the years. Anyway, I can't really complain because I have always been using the the free version of Sketchup. I would definitely be frustrated if I was a professional and using commercial version.
I have also been experimenting Blender multiple times and it has always been complicated. Anyway, nowadays I am already testing Blender by importing my Sketchup models and trying to find an efficient workflow to bring my models into game engines like Unity3D. For me this is more like learning Blender step by step. Hopefully I can already manage the tool after a couple of years! When experimenting modeling in Blender I have really been missing:
- Tape measure tool for drawing construction lines in order to model efficiently with dimensions
- Proper pen/line tool
- Object snapping like in Sketchup
By the way, has anybody tried Bonzai 3D recently? They are now in the version 3.x. A couple of years ago people seemed to complain that there was just too many bugs and crashes but I would assume that it has improved since then.
Link to Bonzai3d version history:
http://www.formz.com/products/bonzai3d/versionHistory/b3d_History.html -
@miikka1978 said:
By the way, has anybody tried Bonzai 3D recently? They are now in the version 3.x. A couple of years ago people seemed to complain that there was just too many bugs and crashes but I would assume that it has improved since then.
Link to Bonzai3d version history:
http://www.formz.com/products/bonzai3d/versionHistory/b3d_History.htmlI mentioned Form-Z with is just Bonzai 3D's pro version. It's new release seems to be adding tools that users have been requesting. Sure the $1,390 USD price tag is almost 3 times the SU Pro cost but that is quite a bargain for what one gets.
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Obviously the wrong forum to discuss this. Should be in the Developers Forum.
But still the "Defenders of SketchUp", "Naysayers" and "Suggesters of alternate software" flood the discussion and take it offtrack.
So,.. it may be that SketchUcation is not even the right site to discuss this. -
@dan rathbun said:
Obviously the wrong forum to discuss this. Should be in the Developers Forum.
But still the "Defenders of SketchUp", "Naysayers" and "Suggesters of alternate software" flood the discussion and take it offtrack.
I think many of us are all three
@unknownuser said:
So,.. it may be that SketchUcation is not even the right site to discuss this.
It's an interesting discussion, glad to see it here. Not sure that it's "obviously" in the wrong place.
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It's fine here....
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@miikka1978 said:
This is really interesting discussion here. I am more like a hobbyist in 3d modeling but I still feel that Sketchup has not developed too much over the years. Anyway, I can't really complain because I have always been using the the free version of Sketchup. I would definitely be frustrated if I was a professional and using commercial version.
That depends of what kind of professional you are.
I'm a professional architect and I've been using sketchup for 2 years now. I never thought I'd ditch CAD but I have.
I always wanted to work in 3D for every stage of the project but that was very hard for me with BIM. I'm able to do that now with sketchup.
I'd really like to see some more features in Sketchup, some of wich I suspect I'm never going to see, however with all the annoyances it has, sketchup is still THE BEST software for architecture, viz and 10 times better than other software for the initial stages, that are what makes it possible to have the final ones.
The biggest problem for me is not having real curves and the cumbersome Layout still is for complete projects (still I prefer using it than CAD...)
New software is very nice, but you'd have to reinvent the wheel just because of a few crucial features:
- True circles/curves (I don't think we'll ever see this one)
- Better drafting capabilites and speed (Layout is getting better by the year and this free users or users wich don't need Layout can't see, but it's what really makes it worth paying for SU)
- Dynamical or parametrical design for organic shapes (some plugins help a bit but maybe on plugin side we'll see this someday. Some of us have to use other software as sketchup is very limited on this...);
- Dynamical or parametrical boolean operations like multiple face cutting components between different contexts(this is a must for architectural work and it's sad that you have to think on so many workaround workflows to disguise this difficulty)
- Higher poly count... there's noone who doesn't want it! (64bit, multicore, whatever, just makes us free from our constraints please!)
- Better collaborative workflow (some advances in plugin side with Xref tools and component manager plugins)
- Better GUI (excellent UI already)
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@olishea said:
Yes, we totally need to rethink 3D. Currently you have to be of a very technical mind to approach complex model making. Sometimes even apparently simple models can become highly stressful to the point where it feels I need a phd in physics and maths.
Now I know anything is possible in 3D, but at what cost?This is where I believe current 3D apps are failing. 99% of people don't care about polygons, meshes, voxels, triangulation, quads etc. They just want to open an app and start modelling. Some of the jargon associated with 3D modelling makes it feel kinda old-school in the fact nothing has really changed.
[/quote]I agreed. Architect don't think in term of polygons. They need tools that help them design better. Design first, drafting and modeling as needed to perfect their visions.
So I think procedural, generative and grammar based modeling would help a lot professionals to focus on designs and overview level better :
PushPull++
Generative designs:
Computer-Generated Residential Building LayoutsInteractive Furniture Layout Using Interior Design Guidelines
Carl Bass: "The Future of How Things are Made" - Solid 2014 @ 22.00
A Probabilistic Model for Component-Based Shape Synthesis
Procedural and grammar based designs:
Voxel Farm - Procedural Architecture ElementsAn Algebraic Model for Parameterized Shape Editing
Also, next-gen modeling interfaces could be something like these:
MakeVR: 3D Modeling and Printing for EveryoneControl VR
Of course, SketchUp need true curves and improved performances/proxy in core
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@olishea said:
Yes, we totally need to rethink 3D. Currently you have to be of a very technical mind to approach complex model making. Sometimes even apparently simple models can become highly stressful to the point where it feels I need a phd in physics and maths.
Now I know anything is possible in 3D, but at what cost?Haha this is so true as someone on the other end(software engineer), trying to get models to run nicely in real-time this is a real problem. We have the importer optimised, but there's a limit to how far we can go before you lose quality or it becomes a massive headache as UV's, normals are all required to be recalculated/mapped.
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