Can I have a Gripes & Bitchin' for Su 2014 thread?
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Guys,
Whichever way to cut it SketchUp is '3D for Everyone' just as it says on the can!
I have come to realise this more and more as I read the comments made by folks signing up for SketchUcation membership. Every day we receive comments praising SketchUp for its ease of use and of course thanking SketchUcation for the support we all provide here.I can understand the aim to keep SketchUp simple to use. If it was to cater for all the complex needs of it's advanced users I think it would quickly become very bloated and loose its core attraction for folks that are totally new to 3D modeling or even CAD in general. SketchUp has brought folks into 3D modeling that would probably have never dreamt of giving 3D it a go. This is a great thing
Rather than talking about beefing up SketchUp maybe TSU should be thinking about totally new related products? Very few car manufactures have just a single model! Most have the basic low cost models that suit the needs of the majority and other most expensive models that meet the needs of the more demanding users.
Personally I would like to have a 2D 'front end' to SketchUp, preferably for a slate or iPad, that allows me to create those all important initial freehand doodles that can be developed into something that can easily be brought into SketchUp for massing etc. Also, it might be an idea to have the ability to move the content created in such a 'front end' (2D CAD-like) app to Layout for tidy up / combination with SketchUp models and final presentation output.
Just thoughts
Mike
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Mike,
SU can be kept simple but still be able to handle enough polys to complete a scene. Everyone wants something different. I work in the arena that I believe SU was designed for, everyday buildings. I do need organic modeling but not as much as the next guy. So the boxy approach of SU is OK with me and the tools provided are generally enough. However I reached the slowdown associated with this program pretty quickly when I started to put scenes together.
Someone asked for transparency from software companies. I think John B. is being quite clear. SketchUp is not going to change much. LayOut seems to be getting new features regularly, but it's capabilities are now pretty well defined as well.
I would hate to see the TSU team branch out to other endeavors. Also I would not be interested in a 2d program that doesn't draw circles.
Peter
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@rv1974 said:
so miserable...
I'd really like to hear his description of the last time WordStar added a really breathtaking feature, or the last time WordPerfect led the way with a new concept to revolutionize word processing.
Look what happened to Altavista when they stopped leading the way with new innovations.
It's not good enough to sit back and say "the rest of the pack is pretty slow right now, so we're just going to take a nap until they catch up." When they catch up, they will pass, and like Altavista or WordPerfect, you may never catch up again.
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Seriously, Sandbox isnt working at all???
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@valerostudio said:
Seriously, Sandbox isnt working at all???
Works here...what's it not doing for you?
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@andybot said:
:? I was just thinking what if AutoDesk had bought SU, would it be killed off already?
Not to say Trimble won't still toss it overboard
I'd like to say "no" they wouldn't have. I mean look at FormIt. It is basically a SU like program for mobile devices and now on the web (pretty rough but still a beta). It's free and sure it is meant as tool for Revit users but no foul for wanting to further your own products. More work is needed but it looks to be at least progressing. I would like to think that SU would have either been enhanced or turned into a better tool.
The recent 123D tools are another nice tool set for users. Although I did not like the sudden shift that 123D Design made from a pro-sumer tool to it's more simplified form.
SU has been my go to app for some time (since v2) and I would hate to see it die but I do not like it's future
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@mike lucey said:
Rather than talking about beefing up SketchUp maybe TSU should be thinking about totally new related products? Very few car manufactures have just a single model! Most have the basic low cost models that suit the needs of the majority and other most expensive models that meet the needs of the more demanding users.
I don't think a need for new products is at the root of the disappointment around here. On the basis of the last two releases SU has stopped evolving (I have had a licensed copy since V4). I haven't looked at the wish list recently but I can imagine there are items on there that should be considered more usability / bug fixes than bloatware. My personal pet hate is the LO DWG export which is almost unusable at the receiving end. The SU Pro boolean tools were a major investment so why hasn't that evolved into solid section capability. The component hole cutting tool should have evolved to cut walls with thickness. None of these add any significant bloat they would just provide the basic tools many people would expect.
Unfortunately JB's attitude would suggest the subscription model is as many fear, an excuse to take money without having to demonstrate the benefits of upgrading. I guess we are unlikely to see even basic chamfer and fillet commands added anytime soon in SU and we will be left to rely upon the hero's of the plugin community to continue providing even the basics...
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+10
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@jiminy-billy-bob said:
He's pleased with the way SU is today, and just want it to stay that way - Except fixing bugs, expanding the API, adding minor things etc, nothing related to its core.
I'm all for fixing bugs, but that's what minor releases are for. Major releases should have major core improvements.
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@arcad-uk said:
why hasn't that evolved into solid section capability. The component hole cutting tool should have evolved to cut walls with thickness. None of these add any significant bloat they would just provide the basic tools many people would expect.
Two good examples. Why when I cut a section I still see the "innards" --unless I use a plugin to "fix" it myself? The sort of things SU was designed to do. Make pictures of buildings and put windows in the walls. Pretty basic.
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@pbacot said:
Mike,
Someone asked for transparency from software companies. I think John B. is being quite clear. SketchUp is not going to change much. LayOut seems to be getting new features regularly, but it's capabilities are now pretty well defined as well
PeterYou are actually right. I'm blind to what I don't want to believe.
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@arcad-uk said:
I don't think a need for new products is at the root of the disappointment around here. On the basis of the last two releases SU has stopped evolving (I have had a licensed copy since V4). I haven't looked at the wish list recently but I can imagine there are items on there that should be considered more usability / bug fixes than bloatware. My personal pet hate is the LO DWG export which is almost unusable at the receiving end. The SU Pro boolean tools were a major investment so why hasn't that evolved into solid section capability. The component hole cutting tool should have evolved to cut walls with thickness. None of these add any significant bloat they would just provide the basic tools many people would expect.
Unfortunately JB's attitude would suggest the subscription model is as many fear, an excuse to take money without having to demonstrate the benefits of upgrading. I guess we are unlikely to see even basic chamfer and fillet commands added anytime soon in SU and we will be left to rely upon the hero's of the plugin community to continue providing even the basics...
I can see completely where you are coming from Trevor, like me it's from an architectural use. I still welcome the Faster Shadows improvement also the update to Ruby 2.0 standards which I trust will be leveraged by the great plugin community we have to create some new gems .... 'basic chamfer and fillet commands'
While SketchUp has from v1 had leanings towards providing easy use for building / architectural design primarily on the modeling front (3D) and to a certain extent straight 2D output, the latter more so with the help / use of the many great plugins we now have and remain coming on stream, I think the application has to remain true to its core use, that it remain as a good 'all rounder' for general 3D work to meet the needs of all types of designers, professionals and hobbyists.
I do however still believe that there is a strong market out there for the taking with SketchUp Pro Architectural and possibly SketchUp Pro Engineering.
I imagine that there is only so much a fairly small team of TSU programmers can achieve. More programmers would require more financial resources and this must be difficult to justify for an end product that a HUGE portion of it is given away for free and the paid for portion is pitched quite low.
A thought! Crowdfunding is growing exponentially. Kickstarter hits $1 billion in pledges
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/03/tech/web/kickstarter-billion-dollars/ More than half its $1B was pledged in the last 12 months alone. $10,266,845 was pledged to the Pebble: E-Paper Watch by 68,929 backers.
Maybe TSU should be looking at the crowdfunding option to grow the SketchUp 'product family'? If just 10% the SketchUcation membership alone were to pledge $750 for SketchUp Pro Architectural, it could generate $1,800,000+. Now that kind of cash could pay for a lot of programmers -
Mike, what makes you think Trimble would relinquish that kind of control? It doesn't seem to me that it's the kind of company that would allow a kickstarter project to take its program in some new direction. That seems way too transparent and open to outside influence...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUr3XbROoA8#t=142
The new SU2014 features demonstrated by french users
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@mike lucey said:
I think the application has to remain true to its core use, that it remain as a good 'all rounder' for general 3D work to meet the needs of all types of designers, professionals and hobbyists.
I do however still believe that there is a strong market out there for the taking with SketchUp Pro Architectural and possibly SketchUp Pro Engineering.
I don't disagree with the first bit, what hacks me off is I'm paying a subscription for software which has glaring problems and much potential to improve functionality without materially changing the front end; yet we are being fed this line of nothing is really going to change... what am I paying for?
At risk of repeating myself, if there was any vision at Trimble Towers the core SU we all know and love would be starting to work smarter and getting fixed. I would imagine the introduction of IFC tags was a nod to collaboration; that time and effort would have been much better spent on fixing the existing function allowing users to exchange DWG files. Equally there are many basic design functions missing in SU but this time we got fobbed off with improvements to 2D arcs and shadows, the latter of which I doubt most users would notice any difference.
As for paying for SU Pro Architectural, that's unlikely to happen. If SU basic lacks the basics then what hope is there for a competitive and properly functioning Architectural or Engineering version? Seriously, there are more mature and faster evolving products out there that would more likely receive my cash based on the current attitudes to developing SU.
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Just stumbled across this... http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000020
Upgrade, Maintenance, and Support program details
New Features: We committed to our customers that we will continue to work on development of new features and functionality. By offering an upgrade, maintenance, and support program, we’re putting the pressure on ourselves to deliver power packed improvements to the SketchUp Pro offering.
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Thanks rv1974 for posting that video. I needed a good laugh.
@andybot said:
Mike, what makes you think Trimble would relinquish that kind of control? It doesn't seem to me that it's the kind of company that would allow a kickstarter project to take its program in some new direction. That seems way too transparent and open to outside influence...
Andy, I am not suggesting Trimble relinquish any kind of control. What I was trying (maybe feebly) to suggest was some way to gauge the market and produce a partially market-led product. We now live in a world where it is quite possible for the consumer to heavily interactively influence the types of products and services that companies design / manufacture and deliver for purchase / consumption.
To demonstrate this point in the field we are involved in I would suggest keeping an eye on the CADO Kickstarter fund raising project here, https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/981031266/cadotm-is-computer-aided-design-cad-for-tablet-dev
This future iPad app concept has been floating around for over two years. I imagine many designers are interested in seeing it being fully developed (me included) but I wonder how many of those interested actually put their cash down (pledge).
The CADO Kickstarter project was launched a few days ago and there are 26 days remaining to hit the £50K target. Currently it has 25 backers and £1,009 pledged. I somehow think they may not reach the target as it looks to me that they have not mass emailed interested folks. I only became aware of the particular project while checking out what's new on KS. Anyway it will be interesting to see what happens.
@arcad-uk said:
I don't disagree with the first bit, what hacks me off is I'm paying a subscription for software which has glaring problems and much potential to improve functionality without materially changing the front end; yet we are being fed this line of nothing is really going to change... what am I paying for?
At risk of repeating myself, if there was any vision at Trimble Towers the core SU we all know and love would be starting to work smarter and getting fixed. I would imagine the introduction of IFC tags was a nod to collaboration; that time and effort would have been much better spent on fixing the existing function allowing users to exchange DWG files. Equally there are many basic design functions missing in SU but this time we got fobbed off with improvements to 2D arcs and shadows, the latter of which I doubt most users would notice any difference.
As for paying for SU Pro Architectural, that's unlikely to happen. If SU basic lacks the basics then what hope is there for a competitive and properly functioning Architectural or Engineering version? Seriously, there are more mature and faster evolving products out there that would more likely receive my cash based on the current attitudes to developing SU.
@arcad-uk said:
Just stumbled across this... http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000020
Upgrade, Maintenance, and Support program details
New Features: We committed to our customers that we will continue to work on development of new features and functionality. By offering an upgrade, maintenance, and support program, we’re putting the pressure on ourselves to deliver power packed improvements to the SketchUp Pro offering.
Tevor, I see your point about getting good solid value for money when it comes to annual Maintenance costs on SU. I imagine most Pro users feel the same and will either go along or not! They may 'vote with their feet' also.
Would it be a plausible idea for TSU to produce a development Road Map for SU Pro. Maybe the targets / objectives could be decided via polls for Pro Users?
Keeping things 'top secret' is all well and good when there are real gems in the offing but meeting popular 'standard' requests on the other hand could be much more openly advised. It would also keep the paying customer happy even if they had to wait a while for the functions they want / need. As long as its know that the goods and going to be delivered most folks are quite happy to have patience ..... while looking at the 'Progress Chart'.
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I may get lynched for saying this, but I think Layout should be it's own separate program (add-on). If Layout is Trimble's focus, and I think it's obvious that this is where the efforts are being mostly put into, then let the people who use it, upgrade that part of the SketchUp suite. 2013 was a disappointment, but I told myself that 2014 will have to be amazing. They wouldn't put out another stale release, right?
We were all terrified when Trimble acquired SketchUp, and I think it's all being confirmed now. They are looking to create a BIM-like program. Those of us who use it to model or render should probably begin to look elsewhere.
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Free user here so don't feel I have much standing but will try anyway:
It is ironic that many user feel JB is not doing a good job but they themselves , except for few cases, have not been responsible for delivery of major software drops. You view point will change;By its very nature and the time it has been around one cannot expect SU to continue with major changes with each release. Trimble must have long range plans for state of the art new products to keep their business viable or they will gone before long.;
I have a sense over the last few time periods the possible trouble they are in just based on the tenor and substance of question asked in some of the forums. Most are administrative in nature and very few with technical substance. That along with my perception JB has not implemented a disciplined and through regression testing does not give many users a good feeling about SU.( That is not trivial to do because of all the options available). Cases in point: Not long ago many Windows users accused MS of using them as beta testers and the debacle of the MAC support starting at SU8;
In addition there is basic lack of knowledge base capture ( Manny good answers in the forums but search sucks), the user manuals are terrible and there is no effort given to support users with any periodic training sessions ( Talking like Webanair's here).The idea of free user(s) is bringing then along to the point for selling pro version. But just saying here it is, free and its great without effort to make them feel that way will not make many sales;
The idea of crowd funding IMHO is a non started. It is up to Trimble management to have long range plans in place to make SU viable to them business wise or they should get out of it.
Any SCF buyers there ?? -
The select tool seems to have changed in SU2014 - now when I select & drag over an area I get these boxes (much like the 'zoom window' tool). Can't find anything about it in 'What's New' - Is it something new or is something wrong? & if the former... can I turn it off... don't much like it?
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