A new home for SketchUp
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@unknownuser said:
i think you're cutting out a huge swath of 3D world.. it's not just for creating 3D imagery.. it enables you to completely 'build' something prior to actually building it... sort out problems, develop a sequence/schedule, finer material orders, etc..
I think this is fairly well covered under item #3 (parametric modeling). At some point in the future anybody (as in layman) will be able to tell a computer exactly what type of buildings, rooms, furnishings, etc. they envision -- the computer will just adapt the design in realtime, and most likely be able to run complex simulations from this data that we can only dream of. Manual modeling will be redundant (for the most part). Obviously we are some ways off from this, but it is coming... there are already many primitive parts of this in place.
For example, as primitive as they are, Dynamic Components were a step for SketchUp in this direction.
Best,
Jason. -
An area where SU shines, but is very unknown is 3D Printing.
Last summer I attended a seminar on the new version of SolidWorks. If I had the money, that is one app I would buy! (Wash my mouth with soap
)However, at the seminar were 2 3D Printers displaying all sorts of very intricate objects, most with intertwined parts that were molded in place, not assembled after printing. One printer was able to make models with a volume of upto 2ft X 3ft X 1 1/2 ft deep, in multiple contiguous materials from soft aluminum to hard plastic to very pliable silicone, all integrally bonded, like a 1 piece wiper blade. It used inkjet technology and upto 7 material cartridges. Needless to say, I was blown away, but at $250,000 I had to put my credit card away.
What's this to do with SU, you may ask?
I asked about what the software could handle in terms of complexity, and the answer was
"whatever you can create in Google Sketchup and scale to fit"
then pass the SU file through a (still in development) translation app to create the 3D "print" file.It seems that SU was simplest in creating the models , while SolidWorks was better at engineering the models for conventional computerized machining. At least for now anyway.
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@jason_maranto said:
@unknownuser said:
i think you're cutting out a huge swath of 3D world.. it's not just for creating 3D imagery.. it enables you to completely 'build' something prior to actually building it... sort out problems, develop a sequence/schedule, finer material orders, etc..
I think this is fairly well covered under item #3 (parametric modeling). At some point in the future anybody (as in layman) will be able to tell a computer exactly what type of buildings, rooms, furnishings, etc. they envision -- the computer will just adapt the design in realtime, and most likely be able to run complex simulations from this data that we can only dream of. Manual modeling will be redundant (for the most part). Obviously we are some ways off from this, but it is coming... there are already many primitive parts of this in place.
For example, as primitive as they are, Dynamic Components were a step for SketchUp in this direction.
Best,
Jason.Speaking from my experience with residential (and some light commercial work), as well as custom timber design:
Until there is a sophisticated set of algorithms in place that can take a long form series of essay questions (plus hundreds / thousands of yes / no questions), parse the data, watch the expression and emotion on a client's face as you discuss how they've answered those questions in reference to the images they've shown you of 'what we like' - then adapt that all to budget, climate, local codes, etc. etc. etc. - hands, minds, eyes, and brains from designers collaborating with their clients should still play a huge role in designing spaces for human interaction and occupation.
Otherwise we'll have what? Android for home and offices? A mess of conflicting software / free ware / ad based design tools that the 'layman' (whom I very much respect, but want to help guide) can cobble together? We already have a physical environment that can resemble the worst MySpace pages (I'm looking at you, strip mall developer, and I'm looking at you, lady with all sorts of plastic crap from the last 20 years strewn on your lawn).
Pre-fab, sure, plug together your house from a reputable designer / builder in a web based app, let the model inform the manufacturing in terms of parametric modules that get assembled at the shop in the computer and then output to cut lists, material choices, pricing, and then show up on site.
But, no thanks for some future of fully automated design.
I love the idea of parametric modeling (use it a lot on the timber side of things - wall / window modules, custom timber CNC module, etc, for AutoCAD), and I'd love to see DCs grow up - but simply inputting a bunch of data into a spreadsheet and have a building pop out, no thanks.
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BMike said (in part) but simply inputting a bunch of data into a spreadsheet and have a building pop out, no thanks.
But doing just that can give you the basis for a building that conforms to a set of rules/standards and dimensions for which designers/architects/engineers can now tweak into what the client wants.
This will avoid continuous re-do's when some standard was violated or overlooked during the fomenting stage. That tends to raise the costs, take extra time and pisses off the client, because it happens every time.
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Yes, please understand I'm not talking about the need for customer service or good taste/design to go away -- just the need for alot of the manual labor of model building. Lets face it, the world is very much a pre-fab place these days, with a limited amount of options for virtually anything.
Best,
Jason. -
Don't be surprised to see more affordable 3D printing soon.
Not big parts but 6"x6"x6" parts.@jgb said:
An area where SU shines, but is very unknown is 3D Printing.
Last summer I attended a seminar on the new version of SolidWorks. If I had the money, that is one app I would buy! (Wash my mouth with soap
)However, at the seminar were 2 3D Printers displaying all sorts of very intricate objects, most with intertwined parts that were molded in place, not assembled after printing. One printer was able to make models with a volume of upto 2ft X 3ft X 1 1/2 ft deep, in multiple contiguous materials from soft aluminum to hard plastic to very pliable silicone, all integrally bonded, like a 1 piece wiper blade. It used inkjet technology and upto 7 material cartridges. Needless to say, I was blown away, but at $250,000 I had to put my credit card away.
What's this to do with SU, you may ask?
I asked about what the software could handle in terms of complexity, and the answer was
"whatever you can create in Google Sketchup and scale to fit"
then pass the SU file through a (still in development) translation app to create the 3D "print" file.It seems that SU was simplest in creating the models , while SolidWorks was better at engineering the models for conventional computerized machining. At least for now anyway.
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@jason_maranto said:
Yes, please understand I'm not talking about the need for customer service or good taste/design to go away -- just the need for alot of the manual labor of model building. Lets face it, the world is very much a pre-fab place these days, with a limited amount of options for virtually anything.
Best,
Jason.[off:32afqmm4]Probably OT[/off:32afqmm4]
Yes but as you said--understanding how the tech changes will affect our work and, not the least, how much we get paid means bringing up these questions. Would deserve another thread.
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@unknownuser said:
Don't be surprised to see more affordable 3D printing soon.
Not big parts but 6"x6"x6" parts.Damn...I want one. Too bad I need the money for boring stuff like living.
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So, does SU create .STL formatted files?
And did you see the price of the ABS filament? $21.50 / lb YIPES!!
Time to cannibalize my weed whacker.
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@jgb said:
So, does SU create .STL formatted files?
No but it can be converted through a magical process. I did manage to somehow get these http://www.shapeways.com/mymodels on shapesways and get one printed....hmm I forgot
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@jason_maranto said:
I think this is fairly well covered under item #3 (parametric modeling). ……..
For example, as primitive as they are, Dynamic Components were a step for SketchUp in this direction.
oh.. right..
yeah, i actually use DCs in my own modeling for things like knee walls, flat decks, stairs, (and a couple of other things)..using stairs as an example though.. they're nothing really to do with my final product.. they only make parts of the product accessible and what not.. i've come up with a stout and generally pleasing way to build stairs that conforms to most local US building codes etc and they're a pain to draw new each time.. (as in, if the final height is 1" lower, i have to start (mostly) from scratch in order to redraw them).. so doing them as a dynamic component makes a bunch of sense. (which btw, is pretty hard in itself because sketchup's DCs aren't grown up as you say.. so it involves some workarounds/extra work afterward.. a ruby solution would be best but i don't know ruby)..
but, if my final product were the stairs, i'd get way too bored if i just built the same thing over and over again only with dimension tweaks.. each set would have to be different enough to warrant a fresh drawing each job.. or else, i'd have to find a new job
that said, many builders do that anyway.. and i do agree with you.. parametric models could be used to create drawings of 80-90% of what's being built out there today..
[off:151j2em7]and that should be a good thing as technology should be used to make our lives easier… more leisure time / less work time.. (however, when you throw in today's corps/banks/govts/etc, we seem to be working as much as we were prior to the last 100 years worth of technology)[/off:151j2em7]
so i believe you're right.. many,many designers/architects/engineers etc may find themselves out of a job unless they step up their game..
hopefully though, the creators of the world will stay ahead of the computers as far as coming up with new/better ideas so the more capabilities a computer gains, the more we will require from them (similar to sketchup's poly count race ).. eventually, when computers gain their own intelligence, even the last of the hanger ons will be put out as we'll no longer be able to design the best stuff.. (but maybe i'm going into too much of a scifi thing here.. not saying i don't believe this is where we're heading because i do believe so.. it just seems weird to talk about it at this time) -
@jgb said:
An area where SU shines, but is very unknown is 3D Printing....
I totally agree that Sketchup is excellent for 3D printing, and is not talked about much on this forum, but I think there are many non-members using Sketchup for 3D printing.
Here's a 3D printed project I posted a few months ago: 3D printed Lamp. You can see a few more of my projects here: 3D Printed Sketchup Models (website still in progress)
Here are some 3D printed dice designed in Sketchup that made a big splash in the MMORPG scene last year:
@jgb said:
So, does SU create .STL formatted files?
Yes, with a plugin. I like this one: SKP2STL
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Hey Mike,
Thanks for calling this out. This is an important point, and we want people to understand what is happening with the 3D Warehouse. I am going to try and chase down some more detail here; I'll do my best to clarify, but I might be a bit hamstrung in what I can share because the sale of SketchUp still has not been approved.
Incidentally, that's also why us SketchUp folks can't comment too much on some of the conversations here.
Best,
Mark
@mike lucey said:
Just read through the - Transfer of licenses and personal data to Trimble - here, http://sketchup.google.com/usernotice.html
This paragraph has me a little confused!
[i]'Opting-out
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Yeah I share that problem
My 1st color inkjet cost almost that much. It would be really good for custom Lego parts, you know, for the kids @marian said:
@unknownuser said:
Don't be surprised to see more affordable 3D printing soon.
Not big parts but 6"x6"x6" parts.Damn...I want one. Too bad I need the money for boring stuff like living.
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Not on it's own but this is where I would use AutoDesk's 123D. It is a perfect fit for this.
@jgb said:
So, does SU create .STL formatted files?
And did you see the price of the ABS filament? $21.50 / lb YIPES!!
Time to cannibalize my weed whacker. -
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@alan fraser said:
That works great except that SU still won't do a real curve no matter what format the file ends up in. Not sure how this will effect the end result as I have not tried a 3D printer yet. Thanks for the link though, seems to be a slick little plug-in
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I feel sorry for the SketchUp team (or anyone being acquired by Trimble). I worked for a company that was acquired by these guys and let me tell you things will change in a big way and not for the better. I hope the SketchUp experience is different of course, but our company was in the middle of a pretty heavy acquisition spree by Trimble, and I was visible to a lot during that time.
Trimble is excellent at acquisition’s, that's primarily how they fuel growth. They are however culturally deficient when it comes to integrating the technology and people that come along with an acquisition into the larger operations of a segment, division or the company as a whole, it's just not part of their DNA.
Their standard operating procedure is to close the acquisition to much fanfare, have a rally the troops meeting with the affected staff, and begin to make subtle changes (updated branding, alter legalese, change payment processing, alter credit terms, etc.). Within 9 to 12 months the acquired entity will go through a reduction in force of some kind to improve operating income (all areas are typically impacted).
Management will be driven to increase top line (drive revenue) at all costs, and improve bottom line by maintaining required operating income levels and increasing margin primarily through layering additional work responsibilities on remaining employees and limiting any additional headcount for as long as possible. Additional hires for example have to be approved by the CEO directly and can take months to approve, if they're ever approved.
During this time the entity will have to work within the bureaucratic nightmare that is Trimble corporate. This is where the dysfunctional family comes in. Legal, Finance and HR stay focused on "protecting the business". In fact, to corporate you’re the enemy. Managers will have to deal with insane credit policies, overly protective lawyers that dictate the terms of a sales contract, and HR staff with a focus on "documenting issues" (referred to as the charm squad internally) to ensure the company is safe from disgruntled employee litigation.
General Managers wield a lot of power; they manage their divisions/segments with a strict focus on milking as much money (top and bottom line) as possible within as short a period as possible of the acquisition. Career development, product growth, service to the client, operational efficiency, all becomes low to no priority. In many respects, the General Managers are like absentee landlords, they come around close to the end of the quarter to collect the rent (revenue targets). If the rent looks like it'll be paid in full (targets attained), they will leave you alone, if it looks like you're short on your rent, they'll provide you "help" to make sure you do pay in full. Growth is expected quarter over quarter, and year over year, regardless of seasonality.
Destructive personalities are not dealt with, especially from Sales Managers. Sales carries a VERY BIG STICK, and you'll deal with some Sales Managers that are not just complete morons, but are very destructive to employee morale. Yet, they will hold a lot of sway with the General Manager of a division because they're the one's responsible for bringing in the dollars. In many respects, it appears that the General Managers surround themselves with people that could never hope to grow into their role, so they don’t have the risk of ever losing it until they’ve moved up to a Vice President/executive level.
After a while, arbitrary dates will be set for product releases to ensure revenue targets can be attained for a given quarter, with compromises made to ensure the date is achieved.
All the while, the original culture will slowly become "Trimbleized" and good talent will start to flee in droves (compare the pre and post acquisition turnover rate and you'll be shocked at the trend).
Trimble is terrified of Autodesk, and this would be the main driver behind the SketchUp acquisition. Expect the "FREE" version to garner less attention over the next 24 months as focus shifts to ramping up revenue (either through integration of the SketchUp IP to shore up some deficient products or by driving new releases of the product to grow market share).
While they'll promise the sun, the moon and the stars during the courting process, you'll be lucky if they deliver on a third of it after 12 to 24 months. Good luck, hope for the best, plan for the worst.
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@mike lucey said:
Just read through the - Transfer of licenses and personal data to Trimble - here, http://sketchup.google.com/usernotice.html
This paragraph has me a little confused!
Following up on several of the posts about last week's user notice, I wanted to let everyone know that the Trimble's Terms of Service for the 3D Warehouse will be available to read before the "closing date." This will give everyone who is interested a chance to review the new Terms. With any luck, they'll provide more fodder for discussion
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sweet!
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