A new home for SketchUp
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@kwistenbiebel said:
And when it would come to that, I hope the SU team start their own company to create Uber Awseome Sketchup II
I don't see how. The purchase will lock up all proprietary code under Trimble's control; a re-do as part of another venture would be instantly crushed by lawsuits and the non-competition clauses all employees will be required to sign as part of the acquisition, or which they have already signed as part of their employment at Google.
I would have much preferred to see the project released into the open source realm. I fully expect development, especially of the free version, to grind to a halt quickly; the only benefit to Trimble is the elimination of competition.
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@ BIMMER
That all sounds like typical corporate to me -- even "good" corporate seems to be run in similar ways. I generally attribute this to the stock market. Stock owners do not care about employee morale or any such thing... they care only for profit (so the stock attains more value).
If your owners (stock holders) only care for profit, then small wonder the managers of said entities are profit-centric in their focus.
Ladder climbing middle-management style is also well known and generally thoroughly rewarded, so again I see no surprises here.
Best,
Jason. -
@unknownuser said:
@alan fraser said:
That works great except that SU still won't do a real curve no matter what format the file ends up in. Not sure how this will effect the end result as I have not tried a 3D printer yet. Thanks for the link though, seems to be a slick little plug-in
Up the segment count on arcs, curves and circles, say around 120 or more. Way higher if high resolution is needed.
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@bimmer said:
I feel sorry for the SketchUp team (or anyone being acquired by Trimble). I worked for a company that was acquired by these guys and let me tell you things will change in a big way and not for the better.
Your comments don't match my observations. Of which acquired company were you a part?
john
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@jbacus said:
Your comments don't match my observations
Isn't this a great place for unsolicited advice
Here's my 2cents: it's been known to happen that a company is lovey-dovey and says all the right things until the sale goes through, then the real culture of the place comes to the fore. I don't know Trimble from bumble, just saying, that pattern is not new in the corporate world.
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Really, that fixes it? Never would have guessed.
Still not a real curve, no matter how many times you roll your eyes.@jgb said:
@unknownuser said:
@alan fraser said:
That works great except that SU still won't do a real curve no matter what format the file ends up in. Not sure how this will effect the end result as I have not tried a 3D printer yet. Thanks for the link though, seems to be a slick little plug-in
Up the segment count on arcs, curves and circles, say around 120 or more. Way higher if high resolution is needed.
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Fight! Fight! hey, keep me out of this.
Actually, I'm not sure that real curves are all that relevant in 3D printing. Here's a link to a 3D model I posted earlier of a soldier. This is a FF model, subjected to SDS and then exported to STL. (we have our own stl exporter which is an adaptation of the one I linked to earlier)
I dunno how it's managed it, but the photo has made the helmet look like its a little facetted. It isn't; I've got it in front of me and it's perfectly smooth and round...I'm fondling it as I write.
I do know that I modelled a very small (10mm long tapered cylinder with vents and flanges) part for a model aero engine and it came out perfectly usable.Back on topic and regarding Bimmer's post:
At the moment (and until he comes back and gives more detail), I'm disregarding it. It has no provenance and no supporting evidence. Bimmer may be genuine in his warning; they may be heartfelt and maybe a cause for concern.
On the other hand, they could be writings of someone who isn't comfortable in the corporate culture, a disgruntled ex-employee, or even a complete troll, by way of a bit of light industrial sabotage...we have absolutely no way of knowing. He signed up, made this single post and hasn't been heard from since...not even to check any reaction. -
@unknownuser said:
Really, that fixes it? Never would have guessed.
Still not a real curve, no matter how many times you roll your eyes.you have to use another software if 100% true curves are required.
simple as that. -
@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
Really, that fixes it? Never would have guessed.
Still not a real curve, no matter how many times you roll your eyes.you have to use another software if 100% true curves are required.
simple as that.Is 100% curve even possible?
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@unknownuser said:
...Still not a real curve...
3D printers all have a print resolution. You just need to make sure your line segments in SU are smaller than that resolution. For example, Shapeways White, Strong & Flexible material has a print resolution of 0.2 mm, so you just make sure all your line segments are smaller than .02 mm and you're good.
Also, when you export to STL (which is what format most 3D printers use), the model is converted into a mesh, meaning true curves are lost anyway. This is true even if you model in Rhino or any software that uses real curves.
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@alan fraser said:
Back on topic and regarding Bimmer's post:
At the moment (and until he comes back and gives more detail), I'm disregarding it. It has no provenance and no supporting evidence. Bimmer may be genuine in his warning; they may be heartfelt and maybe a cause for concern.
On the other hand, they could be writings of someone who isn't comfortable in the corporate culture, a disgruntled ex-employee, or even a complete troll, by way of a bit of light industrial sabotage...we have absolutely no way of knowing. He signed up, made this single post and hasn't been heard from since...not even to check any reaction.Certainly taking it with a grain of salt, but tell me something like that has never happened in the corporate world. It's just good to be ware, and hell, I love a good doomsday warning
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@alan fraser said:
Back on topic and regarding Bimmer's post:
... He signed up, made this single post and hasn't been heard from since...not even to check any reaction.Right.. for all we know, it could be a employee of any other competing software, just trying to scare users into looking at alternatives for their workflow.
And what are the team members supposed to do anyway? If they stay with Google, they may have to move to another division / team, etc. where the personnel dynamics and culture are also likely to change.
If they go to a new company.. there will be change as well.
So what do they have to lose ?? Might as well try things out with Trimble. A year or so down the road, if they don't care for how things are, they could always look elsewhere, perhaps even back with Google.
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@pc0158 said:
The purchase will lock up all proprietary code under Trimble's control; a re-do as part of another venture would be instantly crushed by lawsuits and the non-competition clauses all employees will be required to sign as part of the acquisition, or which they have already signed as part of their employment at Google.
Still, Michael Gibson, who created Rhino as an employee for McNeel, has created a new modeler called MoI, completely rethinking the UI and way of working.
SketchUp has, by design, a number of limitations. It would be really cool if the same team could start a completely new software, completely re-thinking the current paradigms of 3D modelers and coming up with something that is still simple, but way more powerful. Don't get too attached to a way of working that is already 12 years old.
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@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
Really, that fixes it? Never would have guessed.
Still not a real curve, no matter how many times you roll your eyes.you have to use another software if 100% true curves are required.
simple as that.Is 100% curve even possible?
yeah.. it is..
(though on screen it's not totally possible because pixels are square.. when output to a robot saw though, the cuts can be absolutely true)[edit] a sort of similar problem comes up in nurbs apps.. the surfaces shown on screen are actually render meshes.. basically, they look like sketchup surfaces.. but the underlying calculations are there so when output, the true surfaces will be cut/printed)… likewise, when inferencing and what not, sometimes things will appear not to line up in the nurbs app because of the render mesh being used to represent the surface whereas intersecting with the surface is actually determined by the true surface… basically, with nurbs apps, learn to trust the wires and ignore the surfaces
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@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
Really, that fixes it? Never would have guessed.
Still not a real curve, no matter how many times you roll your eyes.you have to use another software if 100% true curves are required.
simple as that.Yes, I mentioned that already.
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@d12dozr said:
@unknownuser said:
...Still not a real curve...
3D printers all have a print resolution. You just need to make sure your line segments in SU are smaller than that resolution. For example, Shapeways White, Strong & Flexible material has a print resolution of 0.2 mm, so you just make sure all your line segments are smaller than .02 mm and you're good.
Also, when you export to STL (which is what format most 3D printers use), the model is converted into a mesh, meaning true curves are lost anyway. This is true even if you model in Rhino or any software that uses real curves.
This I was not sure about, I did mention that I had not tried 3D printing myself. Good information for sure, thanks
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@ecuadorian said:
Still, Michael Gibson, who created Rhino as an employee for McNeel, has created a new modeler called MoI, completely rethinking the UI and way of working.
If something go wrong...
I ever think something like SketchUp ability + Moi curvy nurbs is ideal. Join force?
I bet they would gain a good amount from something like Kickstarter.com -
@unknownuser said:
@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
Really, that fixes it? Never would have guessed.
Still not a real curve, no matter how many times you roll your eyes.you have to use another software if 100% true curves are required.
simple as that.Is 100% curve even possible?
yeah.. it is..
(though on screen it's not totally possible because pixels are square.. when output to a robot saw though, the cuts can be absolutely true)[edit] a sort of similar problem comes up in nurbs apps.. the surfaces shown on screen are actually render meshes.. basically, they look like sketchup surfaces.. but the underlying calculations are there so when output, the true surfaces will be cut/printed)… likewise, when inferencing and what not, sometimes things will appear not to line up in the nurbs app because of the render mesh being used to represent the surface whereas intersecting with the surface is actually determined by the true surface… basically, with nurbs apps, learn to trust the wires and ignore the surfaces
Knowing the 3d printer capabilities you can tweak the final output. All of my models for my side business Hobby Fuzion http://www.shapeways.com/shops/hobbyfuzion are made in Sketchup. Designed for the tabletop, the models are perfectly round to the touch and I use about a 64 segment circle for these to conserve polygon count (some are old and the early Shapeways had tighter poly limits that they have increased over the years). The original .STL plugin was from a request I made on the old @Last forums years ago
Course while the sample models are not very detailed on my shop (that was mainly due to resoluztion limits, not lack of Sketchup capacity), the test planet/moon model was a hollowed half-sphere base in Sketchup and surface detailed in Zbrush from a picture of the Moon made into an alpha brush. I've also made some jewlery for familiy (not shown) usine Shapeways silver printing that had curves without facets so it's doable. -
@findthong said:
@ecuadorian said:
Still, Michael Gibson, who created Rhino as an employee for McNeel, has created a new modeler called MoI, completely rethinking the UI and way of working.
If something go wrong...
I ever think something like SketchUp ability + Moi curvy nurbs is ideal. Join force?
I bet they would gain a good amount from something like Kickstarter.combasically, Moi is already that. I mean, it's not exactly sketchup like but at the same time, it does have a similar feel.
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@unknownuser said:
@d12dozr said:
3D printers all have a print resolution. You just need to make sure your line segments in SU are smaller than that resolution. For example, Shapeways White, Strong & Flexible material has a print resolution of 0.2 mm, so you just make sure all your line segments are smaller than .02 mm and you're good.
Also, when you export to STL (which is what format most 3D printers use), the model is converted into a mesh, meaning true curves are lost anyway. This is true even if you model in Rhino or any software that uses real curves.
This I was not sure about, I did mention that I had not tried 3D printing myself. Good information for sure, thanks
The advantage that Rhino (or similar tools) has over SU in this case is resolution is set when you export, and you can adjust it automatically. In SU, you have to preplan the resolution, and its not easy to edit if you need to.
Its also worth noting that only the model line segments need to be smaller than the printer resolution on curves - on flat surfaces the segments can be as long as you need them to be and the model won't look faceted.
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