A new home for SketchUp
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Hi Peter, thanks for the vote of confidence! I have my good days, you know?
For me, Layout is the obvious answer for my shop drawings and I can make it do what I want in an interface I don't find as annoying or tedious. The functionality, of course, can be tedious and annoying, but I have to say that, over all, the benefits outweigh the negatives.
A large portion of my work involves 3D shop drawings for timber frames. Being able to dimension in Sketchup and then, using scenes, to set up my Layout docs really works great and the linked updating and replacing of files also works quite well for me, not to mention having the inference engine working between the two softwares.
Dimensioning, hatching, and the inability to dimension in perspective, however, are very big areas that need drastic improvement, in my opinion. And the inability to make paper space read out model dimensions is maddening. Way too much drawing in SU and then tracing in Layout (grid lines, anyone?).
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"remember when Google bought @Last . . . be patient and stay engaged . "
said Daniel Talcongratulations team SketchUp and hello Trimble
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@mrdentini said:
I really can't believe that people judge a company by just looking at their web site!
What other basis to we have right now? How do you assess any company or individual? If it's face to face, it's by what they say and how they say it, and to an extent how they look. If it's a company, you look at how they present themselves on the internet, in print, in reviews.
Have a look for the software applications quoted, and tell me that you have come away really excited.
I'm not saying change is bad by any means. Hell - I'm not even saying Trimble is bad either. We all have our views about how SU progressed under Google. It definitely improved, but perhaps we all expected that a company with the vast resources of Google and its reputation for hiring the smartest people, would make available the resources to push SketchUp far further than it did. Google's acquisition of SketchUp was different. It was a company we were all familiar with. We had all used its services and we all knew its values. We certainly knew that it was dedicated to giving away free applications. Admittedly you paid for this with your privacy, but for those of us who aren't rich or secretive, it was great! We know very little of Trimble. An analogy would be like a guy in a sharp suit and dark glasses who comes along to your favourite and much-loved coffee shop, slaps a sign on it saying 'Under new Management', and says "Thank you very much, we'll be in touch..."
I love SketchUp, I have been using it since V2. I was one of the very first users here in Wales in the UK, and it was a revelation. I really look forward to the times when I don't have to spend hours and hours writing documentation and managing my staff or my construction contracts, and I can play with SketchUp building 3d models of new buildings. And I use the word 'play' intentionally. SketchUp is the part of my job where I have the most fun and enjoyment!
I really want to be enthusiastic about the new ownership and new potential. Having looked into Trimble and their product portfolio, I can't see any joy or love or creativity or inspiration, and I'm not usually prone to hippy-type statements like this. So yeah, I need a bit of convincing from the dudes in the suits...
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Well it's 18 pages in on this thread, and I only just heard about this Trimble business from a coworker. I haven't posted here in a long time—haven't even been lurking actually. But I'm out from behind the bushes now to say I'm both scared and excited. SketchUp has been such a big part of my work life since V1.2.
Funny thing is, I read most of the posts in this thread and it seems like the same sentiments that I remember from the Google buyout. I was excited as I could be back then. This time, I'm trying to take it easy. This time I'm going to take it easy. This time. I need a paper bag.
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@unknownuser said:
This is what I hear with ear to the ground. Don't quote me. My hearing is bad
At the top of their list is a plan to capture ruby revenue. A panel will choose a select group of rubies and start to negotiate with the owners. This ruby set will be provided with a permanent front end in SU. You can bet they will be in the positioning application vertical.Since they are trying to capture a ruby revenue stream they will create a STK that must be used to develop and install/register. You will have to use their kit.
Then look for a complete name change in the new year. Trimble will attempt to raise the profile from blue jeans to shirt and tie. The “sketchy” reputation is something they will quickly position themselves to resolve. As for the name change. No serious Sketchup user will drop the tool because of a name change but new customers will turn their heads. The word Sketchup will disappear forever.
Roland I find your comments interesting, particularity so coming from someone that claims to have bad hearing. I suffer from the same infliction myself by the way.
What you say about SketchUp being 'beefed up' (maybe that could be the new name?) with the integration of popular existing rubies makes a certain amount of sense provided it is done properly. I am sure many users would welcome this, I for one would if it meant a more efficient way of working and I imagine the independent developers would be happy to work under new arrangements if fair terms were introduced. Currently the majority of them are operating on a donation system which is not delivering a fair return on time invested, in many cases, not even a 'thank you', which can mean a lot, is returned!
In my opinion the making of SketchUp a freeware was a for many independent Scripters a downer! While this move vastly expanded SketchUp's popularity and user base it also created a huge 'we want all free' attitude without at the same time offering any other means for revenue generation by Scripters. Professional and Semi-Professional Scripters need to eat and even the Amateur (in the true sense the word) Scripters like to receive some form of gratitude and recognition shown from time to time.
As regards a change of name goes, not that a product name is the be all and end all in itself, I very much doubt that Trimble would even consider changing an established trade name that has gained a Worldwide niche in design offices .... 'If its not broken, don't try to fix it!'.
On the other hand, I think I will be glad to see the overshadowing GOOGLE element of the current name going. While it added weight in many ways it also pigeon holed SketchUp Pro under the same category as Free SketchUp. I think with proper handling SketchUp in its current versions and possible future versions will flourish and become what it really should be at this point in time, a 3D Tool for all kinds of disciplines both at the preliminary stages of design and throughout the various development stages.
As regards the blue jeans being replaced by shirts and ties goes. Maybe Trimble like the blue jeans image! One of the most innovative and popular company leaders of late wore nothing other than blue jeans. In his case he also always combined it with a black turtleneck. This image helped to produce mass appeal to millions of Mac users around the World and actually still does even though Steve Jobs is no longer with us.
Personally I find it easier to get into creative mode when wearing casual clothes. I only wear the collar of tie when attending very stuffy engagements but I image the SketchUp Team have a suit in the wardrobe for such occasions also.I would like to think that Trimble wanted the total SketchUp package, including it's image and unique dedicated community to bring a new dimension to their business operations. Most things can be bought in this World but there is one thing that cannot be, only earned .... true dedication!
I often think this is an unnatural situation to be in but I and many others feel this way about SketchUp
as it opened up our ability to release creative skills that were being stiffed by cumbersome CAD apps back August 2000 when a small team of innovators worked hard on a dream to produce a special, against the grain, "3D for Everyone" application. I still remember my joy at producing a cottage model after a couple of hours fun and I get the same enjoyment today, 12 years later!Its early days yet in this transition, however I do not have the slightest worry that the SketchUp Development Team will not protect and further develop their 'baby' and believe me, these guys DO regard SketchUp as their baby .... again probably totally unnatural but that's the way it is
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So he (Mark Harrison) rides in, drops the bomb and scatters!
Not good.
Void of real assurance.
Doesn't stick around to answer some questons. Not good from a PR point. -
Honestly , I think developing a 2D component (Layout?) to Sketchup might just be one of the focuses Trimble has by just observing their background and current core business.
And I definitely applaud that.
I would love to be able to output CAD drawings more easily from SU, intuitively as we expect from Sketchup.
At the same time optimizing current 3D modeling (speed and high poly optimisation) and a good collaboration with the render engine developers (Vray etc..) and Bob is your uncle.Add some useful BIM plugins for people that need it (not me
) and I see a wonderful future for Sketchup.I have to admit, I don't like the 'corporate' looking abstract website.
Trimbles' website looks like one of those web templates you can download.
A lot of words without meaning.Perhaps the acquisition of Sketchup allows them to add some zzzing to what seems a dusty image.
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@kwistenbiebel said:
Perhaps the acquisition of Sketchup allows them to add some zzzing to what seems a dusty image.
Mmmmm, I could have save myself a lot of typing (above) if I had thought to just say that
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Don't see the synergy.
Do you get a free laser with a Pro purchase? -
I agree 100% with kwistenbiebel's calls for a 3d engine that works much better with a massive polygon count. Any BIM type development is definitely going to need it!
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@bigstick said:
I agree 100% with kwistenbiebel's calls for a 3d engine that works much better with a massive polygon count. Any BIM type development is definitely going to need it!
Most definitely.
In our office, Revit is rolled out as CAD and semi BIM application.
We notice that for projects where collaboration on one 'model' runs up to 8 people, the 'model' needs to be split up in parts referenced in as the software starts to crack with the huge amount of 3D data that is in there..
For example , a simple door component (a 'family' in Revit) has all the 3D information to the detail, making a file super heavy after a while.
My guess is that current Sketchup isn't up to that task.I can't imagine Sketchup becoming a full BIM application for this reason.
It is more plausible Sketchup remains a 3D tool in it's essence, with optimisations and extended tools that incorporates BIM elements.
I can't imagine Sketchup to become a next gen Revit.
And it would be boring as hell in the first place lolFor me personally,I find higher poly count optimisation more important in terms of allowing to use high poly 3D objects like trees, furniture etc, that enhance photorealism a lot when using the advanced render engines...
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I just noticed trimble do have a page on Facebook, they have some videos too if anyone is interested. My new major concern is continuing support for the mac platform as it seems all their other apps are windows only.
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@kwistenbiebel said:
For example , a simple door component (a 'family' in Revit) has all the 3D information to the detail, making a file super heavy after a while.
Then Autodesk needs to take a page from videogame development and adopt Dynamic Level Of Detail (aka "LOD"). The closer you get, the more detail is there. Lumion uses this for vegetation.
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@unknownuser said:
I agree 100% with kwistenbiebel's calls for a 3d engine that works much better with a massive polygon count. Any BIM type development is definitely going to need it!
It's always been my understanding is that SU was developed to be a simple, intuitive and quick application to create 3D models with a somewhat limited poly count. Why create a subdivided cube when a plain 6 sided cube will suffice? Quick is predicated on models that don't have a massive polygon count. So far, SU has been just that ... Take away the simple, intuitive and quick aspects and we might as well use 3DMax, Zbrush or Blender to name a few ...
So, if I were Trimble and I wanted to integrate the SU engine into "field applications" I sure wouldn't morph it into something that would handle high poly counts or an "advanced" 3D engine. There's no need. Consider this: a guy in the field is doing some geo work and needs a model of a particular building for site he's at. He's on 3G/4G for connectivity. Someone at Trimble, for instance, has already whipped up a SU low poly model of the building and made it accessible for downloading to the field. The SU object doesn't need massive polys, or UV mapping or even texture mapping. It needs to occupy a physical space on a plot in a field device. I would expect downloading a SU file under 1meg for instance, would be preferable to something larger.
Another aspect, if the SU engine is integrated into field equipment, we're possibly talking about mobile devices like glorified smartphones with limited processor or memory capacity. So again, handling a high poly count is not useful.
Speculation is so much fun.
Just my spin on it ... cheers. -
I have mixed memories of dealing with Trimble software. Way too many locks however they did have some nifty on the fly topographic tools in the trimble office software. I guess it may be time to roll from ruby to python to cover my bases however. And what will happen to sketchy physics?????
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if for no other reason, the acquisition of Sketchup by Trimble brought a lot of excitement back to a forum that had gone very quiet recently, with the exception of the plugins subforum, always full of good news. these last 24 hours remind me of the time of our rebellion against the move to a google-style board which resulted in the transformation of Sketchucation into what it is today: a 118.000+ strong community.
having said that, I am becoming more optimistic as time passes. I seem to read between the lines of every post by john bacus a lot of optimism and enthusiasm about their move to trimble. I also understand he is saying as much as he can but I get enough from it to give me hopes we are in for a better Sketchup/Layout combo.
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IdahoJ that's an interesting response, of course your right in it's essense simplicity is sketchup's forte however i'm in the archviz business. I love sketchup to bits and i am constantly battling to get the detail i need. It doesn't help that my renderer of choice (maxwell) loves polygons.
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@chedda said:
My new major concern is continuing support for the mac platform as it seems all their other apps are windows only.
yeah, i get that vibe as well..
one thing to note however is that the suTeam are generally mac heads (and one of the snarkier comments i've ever seen online by jbacus has been a win/osx thing and his preference of using mac).. surprisingly, a disproportionate amount of people in this thread are mac users as well..
the idea that trimble would simply drop mac support or cripple sketchup on mac compared to future windows versions just makes no sense (to me)
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I suppose it opens new roads for them, i am also aware that cad generally lives on the pc though.I noticed in Mr Bacus's signature that he uses a mac so i guess there is some hope. I just hope they don't suggest bootcamp like autodesk (max). After all sketch up uses open gl which kind of lives on the mac right ?
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@jpalm32 said:
So he (Mark Harrison) rides in, drops the bomb and scatters!
Not good.
Void of real assurance.
Doesn't stick around to answer some questons. Not good from a PR point.you gotta put yourselves in their shoes.
they could hang out on the net all day and have enough people engaging that the conversation would never end. (meanwhile, the real work is being neglected)dunno, on my job sites, I try to keep client interaction to a minimum.. only the facts ma'am and only issues that are immediate etc.. otherwise, they'll just sit there and chat my ear off all day long.
[EDIT]oh.. and that reminds me of a super strange time i had a couple of jobs ago where the client was fairly openly hitting on me and one of the guys on my crew..
..but i'll save that for the corner bar (or actually, i'd rather not get into the details online.. ..it was just a weird situation and brought a lot of unnecessary stress/complications to the job site)
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