Strange behaviour of SU when molding a door

jeff hammond

Per request http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=97f6c7269341fe93483a6eca16661274 below the OP scale the model starts to have SU size issues.
Barndy20 please reconsider trying to mould the component approach it is dangerous

lol.. i don't really know what to say.. maybe i'll just go with..

you're absolutely right! follow-me is awesome!

jeff hammond

if anyone other than m1 is actually interested in seeing the follow-me problem in another circumstance, have a look at the attached file..

this time, i use the offset tool as an example.. it shows the same exact error as with follow-me but with , it's easier to understand/explain where exactly the software breaks down

offset_problem.skp

mac1

spotello window to scale with follow me tool.jpg Not really I have better things to do.
For general interest here is the widow to scale using the follow me tool and better modelling practice.
Started extrusion further from bottom corner.
Use 2nd order Bezier to form better tangents than the arc tool.

TIG

Mac1, isn't that all 100x too small ?? Look at the dimensions no door is 3mm wide ?

brandy20

I'd like to steer back to the real issue with the Follow Me Tool that made me open this post. AND the problem arose when I wanted to use the follow me tool to have a molded curve on the outside and a 90° corner on the inner part.

If I wanted to mold a profile like in the attached file, that would not have been a problem with the Follow Me tool, and I think that the reason is pretty clear to all: Follow Me actually follows a path and cannot give you a curve on the outer edge and a 90° on the inner. We can try to get closer to a 90° scaling up the model and increasing the number of segments, but we we'll never have two orthogonal segments. That's it!

So, I think that, in my case, to have good results, we can try two different approaches: either use Charlie's one, that breaks up the path inserting a "quarter" (as he explained initially in this post) or go for Jeff's method, that uses the EEbl plugin.

I tried Jeff's method and works very well, so I'd be interested in seeing if there is another alternative to that, using native tools.

No_problem_FollowMe.skp

jeff hammond

@brandy20 said:

I tried Jeff's method and works very well, so I'd be interested in seeing if there is another alternative to that, using native tools.

yeah, there is a way to do it with native tools and it's not too fun.. i used to do it like that before the Lathe and RoundCorner plugins were written..
i'm pretty sure i have a video of the process online somewhere.. i'll look around for it and post it if i find it..

[well, another way to do it natively would be to draw a sphere then erase 7/8 of it (in the case of a 90º corner).. that's only going to work if your corner is a simple degree (meaning 30º, 45º, etc... not ~47.3948573º).. it's probably the fastest non-ruby way]

jeff hammond

@mac1 said:

For general interest here is the widow to scale using the follow me tool and better modelling practice.
Started extrusion further from bottom corner.
Use 2nd order Bezier to form better tangents than the arc tool.

mac, i think you're missing a key element of this thread.. the corners are rounded.. not square as in your drawings..
i think it's been stated a few times in this thread by a few different people that follow-me is ok for angular intersections.. the problems arise when the path is an arc/curve

brandy20

@unknownuser said:

@mac1 said:

For general interest here is the widow to scale using the follow me tool and better modelling practice.
Started extrusion further from bottom corner.
Use 2nd order Bezier to form better tangents than the arc tool.

mac, i think you're missing a key element of this thread.. the corners are rounded.. not square as in your drawings..
i think it's been stated a few times in this thread by a few different people that follow-me is ok for angular intersections.. the problems arise when the path is an arc/curve

[attachment=0:3m3v0f7e]sporty_ello_diff.jpg[/attachment:3m3v0f7e]

That's what I meant! Tks!

brandy20

@unknownuser said:

@brandy20 said:

I tried Jeff's method and works very well, so I'd be interested in seeing if there is another alternative to that, using native tools.

yeah, there is a way to do it with native tools and it's not too fun.. i used to do it like that before the Lathe and RoundCorner plugins were written..
i'm pretty sure i have a video of the process online somewhere.. i'll look around for it and post it if i find it..

[well, another way to do it natively would be to draw a sphere then erase 7/8 of it (in the case of a 90º corner).. that's only going to work if your corner is a simple degree (meaning 30º, 45º, etc... not ~47.3948573º).. it's probably the fastest non-ruby way]

...and I suppose it would be a very time consuming method, so why not to use those great plugins available for SketchUp?

jeff hammond

@brandy20 said:

@unknownuser said:

@brandy20 said:

I tried Jeff's method and works very well, so I'd be interested in seeing if there is another alternative to that, using native tools.

yeah, there is a way to do it with native tools and it's not too fun.. i used to do it like that before the Lathe and RoundCorner plugins were written..
i'm pretty sure i have a video of the process online somewhere.. i'll look around for it and post it if i find it..

[well, another way to do it natively would be to draw a sphere then erase 7/8 of it (in the case of a 90º corner).. that's only going to work if your corner is a simple degree (meaning 30º, 45º, etc... not ~47.3948573º).. it's probably the fastest non-ruby way]

...and I suppose it would be a very time consuming method, so why not to use those great plugins available for SketchUp?

here's the video showing how i used to do these kind of corners

[flash=853,480:qjdfyo4k]http://www.youtube.com/v/Hn7HIr8zt4E?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0[/flash:qjdfyo4k]

brandy20

Yes, that's a good way, but only for "regular" angles, as you said.

jeff hammond

@brandy20 said:

Yes, that's a good way, but only for "regular" angles, as you said.

well, the sphere technique only works with 'regular' angles..
using the first method shown in the video, you can do 'unknown' angles via the standard copy_divide_array function of the rotate tool

just copy/rotate something then enter " /<# of copies> " in the meas. box...
the angle will be divided by that amount.

a quick visual explanation..

brandy20

Yes, what I meant is that it could be a problem if you have odd angles as in my door, with several values after comma. If you can easily manage it with the plugin, you could have some trouble with your last method.

mac1

@tig said:

Mac1, isn't that all 100x too small ?? Look at the dimensions no door is 3mm wide ?

Look at the OP he shows it scaled by 100X. I know look at why I questioned his scale above.

mac1

@unknownuser said:

@mac1 said:

For general interest here is the widow to scale using the follow me tool and better modelling practice.
Started extrusion further from bottom corner.
Use 2nd order Bezier to form better tangents than the arc tool.

mac, i think you're missing a key element of this thread.. the corners are rounded.. not square as in your drawings..
i think it's been stated a few times in this thread by a few different people that follow-me is ok for angular intersections.. the problems arise when the path is an arc/curve

[attachment=0:1xvr54f4]sporty_ello_diff.jpg[/attachment:1xvr54f4]

Look at my above post=> I model as I build. I have stated more than once the OP has indicated to build as separate components and that is dangerous or at least I think so. I will not post anything I think can lead to a safety issue. Maybe you can build and cut the profiles with a router but I cannot not.

Jean-Franco

Hello,
attached how I would do that frame door in my workshop.
Moulding will be done piece by piece (rails and stiles) and without any risk.
Just a question of method with a jig for the top rail.

's door_640.png

Sportello_mac1+Jean-Franco.skp

brandy20

@mac1 said:

@unknownuser said:

@mac1 said:

For general interest here is the widow to scale using the follow me tool and better modelling practice.
Started extrusion further from bottom corner.
Use 2nd order Bezier to form better tangents than the arc tool.

mac, i think you're missing a key element of this thread.. the corners are rounded.. not square as in your drawings..
i think it's been stated a few times in this thread by a few different people that follow-me is ok for angular intersections.. the problems arise when the path is an arc/curve

[attachment=0:tkmtx0re]sporty_ello_diff.jpg[/attachment:tkmtx0re]

Look at my above post=> I model as I build. I have stated more than once the OP has indicated to build as separate components and that is dangerous or at least I think so. I will not post anything I think can lead to a safety issue. Maybe you can build and cut the profiles with a router but I cannot not.

Mac, I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean in your post. What is dangerous and can lead to safety issues?

Could you please reformulate it?

Tks,

Luca

brandy20

@jean-franco said:

Hello,
attached how I would do that frame door in my workshop.
Moulding will be done piece by piece (rails and stiles) and without any risk.
Just a question of method with a jig for the top rail.

[attachment=1:p1b69xr2]'s door_640.png[/attachment:p1b69xr2]

[attachment=0:p1b69xr2]Sportello_mac1+Jean-Franco.skp[/attachment:p1b69xr2]

I know this is going off topic, but I in my opinion, assembling the frame and routing next is safe and pretty fast. If you want corners instead of angles you can just remove them later with a chisel. Your is another available method, safe as well, but a little more time consuming.

Off topic closed.

jeff hammond

@brandy20 said:

Yes, what I meant is that it could be a problem if you have odd angles as in my door, with several values after comma. If you can easily manage it with the plugin, you could have some trouble with your last method.

yeah, the manual draw method does work with the oddball angles.. that's how i've been doing it for years.
when TIG wrote lathe, i immediately started hounding him to figure out a way to allow the user to pick points on screen to deal with angles that sketchup is incapable of measuring precisely... which he accomplished..

i haven't done the manual building since!

jeff hammond

@brandy20 said:

@mac1 said:

@unknownuser said:

mac, i think you're missing a key element of this thread.. the corners are rounded.. not square as in your drawings..
i think it's been stated a few times in this thread by a few different people that follow-me is ok for angular intersections.. the problems arise when the path is an arc/curve

[attachment=0:2doecb5p]sporty_ello_diff.jpg[/attachment:2doecb5p]

Look at my above post=> I model as I build. I have stated more than once the OP has indicated to build as separate components and that is dangerous or at least I think so. I will not post anything I think can lead to a safety issue. Maybe you can build and cut the profiles with a router but I cannot not.

Mac, I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean in your post. What is dangerous and can lead to safety issues?

Could you please reformulate it?

Tks,

Luca

i think it means something like:

"the follow-me tool is fully accurate... if the follow-me tool fails to draw an accurate extrusion then that means the part is too dangerous to build in the real world therefore it doesn't matter.."

[but ok.. i'm being a jerk now.. i'll stop]